Forum › Yamada to Kase-san discussion

Old%20man%20prof
joined Oct 25, 2022

Been thinking about this more than I probably should, and what I find most frustrating about the writing of this arc, aside from Yamada not standing up for herself, is that ultimately the consequences of this whole thing are so skewed. This whole conflict is entirely of Kase's making, and she is the one with all the agency in resolving it. Yet it's Yamada that has the most to lose, and bears the burden if Kase were to fail, and that just feels awful.

If Kase loses and has to stay in the dorm, all she misses out on is not having Yamada to wake up next to every morning (a loss to be sure, but let's be real: it's pretty low stakes). Yamada on the other hand has been working extra shifts at her job for months to save up. She's been spending loads of time shopping for apartments, and running herself ragged in the process; all effort that would go to waste if Kase loses. She's the one who has been planning to move in for months, and has been actively working towards this goal while Kase does nothing. And let's not forget that she ran a real risk of being homeless if she hadn't been able find another apartment after losing the first one, or if Kase wasn't going to be around to split the rent.

And this is just made worse by the fact that it's Yamada who we constantly see struggling. We see barely any of Kase's training, and she always seems to be not serious the few times we do. This arc would have felt a whole lot better if instead of constantly having to see Yamada be the victim of Kase's stupidity, we had instead seen more of Kase struggling and having to overcome adversity. As it is now, it feels like we're supposed to swoon at how cool "serious mode" Kase is, and how she comes through for Yamada, but it's totally undermined by the fact that what she's rescuing Yamada from is a problem entirely of her own making.

Jo
joined Jan 1, 2019
  1. I still love this manga (no matter what)
  2. This arc is FINALLY done (ngl, I was sort of hoping Yamada would've taken a break from Kase, esp after her bs)
  3. Kase's teammates SUCK (who tf actively interferes with some one moving out of a dorm to live with their so?!)
  4. "Congrats on your PERSONAL best"... I still trounced you (hard) but, y'know, congrats... (That would hurt SO much).
Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017

But the MCs are so joined at the hip in this one that Fukami was always going to be emotional road kill, and as several others have noted, unless Kase was going to lose the race and thus cause any number of crises/epiphanies, the entire arc has no real consequences, except that Yamada lost a great apartment because Kase is a fucking dolt.

I get the feeling things with Kase's team are just beginning honestly.

I don't think things with Fukami are quite over, (I think Kase will come out to her and introduce Yamada as her girl, honestly) but I do think this was the climax, I wouldn't say "just beginning."

And the pressure would certainly be there with everyone seeing Kase moving out after a loss as her going back on her word.

Yeah but which is worse, going back on her word with the team or with Yamada? When she said what she said to Fukami in the last chapter she was more or less acknowledging that Yamada took priority no matter what... but she still intended to win.

Yeah, but what we're talking about in this chain of thought is why Fukami might think she can pressure Kase into staying if she wins, and Fukami doesn't know Kase is moving out to be with her girlfriend.

Jocks are dumb regardless.

This is a true. Kase is definitely a big dumb jock.

Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017
  1. I still love this manga (no matter what)
  2. This arc is FINALLY done (ngl, I was sort of hoping Yamada would've taken a break from Kase, esp after her bs)

Honestly Kase's jealous fits would have been way more of a dealbreaker for me than this arc.

  1. Kase's teammates SUCK (who tf actively interferes with some one moving out of a dorm to live with their so?!)

None of them KNOW this.

  1. "Congrats on your PERSONAL best"... I still trounced you (hard) but, y'know, congrats... (That would hurt SO much).

Yeah, honestly if it was anybody but Kase, it'd be hard to take that as anything other than a passive aggressive burn.

joined Oct 21, 2013

I wonder how many on the team are shipping Kase and Fukami together.

Also wonder if Fukami will turn up at Kase and Yamada's doorstep.

last edited at Oct 1, 2023 9:21PM

Mari%20-%20gf
joined Apr 1, 2015

Finally...
We can go back to finding the humor in tiny bathrooms

Kimika3
joined Jan 1, 2019

I get the feeling things with Kase's team are just beginning honestly.

I don't think things with Fukami are quite over, (I think Kase will come out to her and introduce Yamada as her girl, honestly) but I do think this was the climax, I wouldn't say "just beginning."

Someone made the point that they kinda feel bad for Fukami -- I do think the girl pretty much deserves to know at this point, but I don't think Kase is really there yet. Another thing this race accomplished is keeping Kase from answering troublesome questions.

Yeah but which is worse, going back on her word with the team or with Yamada? When she said what she said to Fukami in the last chapter she was more or less acknowledging that Yamada took priority no matter what... but she still intended to win.

Yeah, but what we're talking about in this chain of thought is why Fukami might think she can pressure Kase into staying if she wins, and Fukami doesn't know Kase is moving out to be with her girlfriend.

I thought we were talking about Fukami not getting the memo that the terms of the race changed... and/or whether the terms of the race actually changed. I think Fukami is still under the impression Kase has a boyfriend so... yeah.

Anyway I still kinda think the track team is going to remain a heavy focus going forward but we'll see. Hopefully some fluff first.

joined Sep 28, 2022

I was so sure yamada meant something more serious when she was all smiles and didn't seem to care about Kase's race in the first two pages, like kase would take the key and find and empty place with yamada having moved on

but no she just accepts kase is jerking her around I guess cause she's afraid of being alone or something lol, the original kase san series felt realistic and believable in a good and happy way while this just feels sad if still somewhat believable, truly the couple life experience

identification-projection-preheterosexuality
Please%20actually
joined Mar 13, 2018

now begins the joe orton stage of the relationship

Helmet
joined Jun 9, 2021

See, this is why I don't like love triangles, and usually avoid romances that prominently feature them. (that leaves me with about five remaining stories to choose from, I know, I know) Because even though Kukami was pretty unreasonable this whole time, I still end up feeling bad for her now. :(

BeanBeanKingdom
Ms_icon
joined Nov 3, 2018

I've followed this series for a long time, own the volumes and watched the OVA and to be honest I think the writing has always been pretty surface-level and wishy-washy. Yamada and Kase's relationship has always been rooted in insecurity and lack of communication, with drama being created out of harmless internal and external factors being inflated due to those issues until it usually just kinda peters out and things appear to move forward but mostly reset back to square one with neither truly acknowledging there was something wrong with their mindsets that led to said drama. It was more natural during their high school days since they were younger, hadn't got together yet or had only just started dating, but now that they're adults and being faced with more important life choices, it feels tiring and toxic. I decided to stop being frustrated about it when Kase threw her bag at the princely guy who was giving Yamada recommendations for her university work and got away with barely a slap on the wrist. This current situation with the race and potentially jeopardizing the move is just as bad. It's been like this for too long and too consistently for me to believe the author is building up to any sort of serious re-examination of their relationship. She doesn't see anything Kase does as harmful or Yamada's tolerance of it unhealthy, they're just cute little squabbles that end in nothing.

Images
joined May 22, 2014

While I still think Kase's an idiot, Her teammates are absolutely the worst. Just in this chapter they were about to pile on to her for something as minor as being ignored. I think they all just have an inferiority complex from Kase being faster than them. They abuse the fact that Kase is a complete doormat to boss her around as much as they can in order to feel better about themselves.

Screenshot_20231219-103652~2
joined Sep 10, 2022

I've followed this series for a long time, own the volumes and watched the OVA and to be honest I think the writing has always been pretty surface-level and wishy-washy. Yamada and Kase's relationship has always been rooted in insecurity and lack of communication, with drama being created out of harmless internal and external factors being inflated due to those issues until it usually just kinda peters out and things appear to move forward but mostly reset back to square one with neither truly acknowledging there was something wrong with their mindsets that led to said drama. It was more natural during their high school days since they were younger, hadn't got together yet or had only just started dating, but now that they're adults and being faced with more important life choices, it feels tiring and toxic. I decided to stop being frustrated about it when Kase threw her bag at the princely guy who was giving Yamada recommendations for her university work and got away with barely a slap on the wrist. This current situation with the race and potentially jeopardizing the move is just as bad. It's been like this for too long and too consistently for me to believe the author is building up to any sort of serious re-examination of their relationship. She doesn't see anything Kase does as harmful or Yamada's tolerance of it unhealthy, they're just cute little squabbles that end in nothing.

100% agree. I've said this before but you put in more effort to explain it fully. The shift from high school to adult life, for me, has exposed potential issues that were already there but could be excused as "maybe the author is writing this way because these are meant to be kids," which would have been fair and appropriate. However, with this shift to adultish life, it's now clear that wasn't the case. This is just how the writing will always be and how the characters will always act. Can still be fun and cute but not the elevation that I initially expected when we learned that we'd get to see them as older people. Still feels like this could be a middle school or high school drama with "college" being used loosely as almost the same setting as the high school was. That's why I'd rather we get away from the track team etc. Something to force the story to break away from focusing on a substitute high school experience and focus on new things. Hopefully that's where it's going now.

last edited at Oct 2, 2023 8:04AM

Miki_closeup
joined Mar 20, 2014

Well, glad this nonsense is over with. Hopefully things will be a bit smoother from here on out. At least for a while.

Yamada should really get a bit of a spine and chew Kase out next time she pulls something as stupid as this. I mean, yeah, Kase is quite the idiot, and I can kind of get that Yamada realizes this and doesn't want to fret over every little detail, but Kase really needs to make amends over this gaffe.

maidenlessclaire
Rkkixs_v_400x400
joined Feb 16, 2023

I don't even care anymore. This arc was dumb and pointless as hell, but I have already spent months ranting about this with friends who were also reading it. It ended exactly the way I expected it would, but dear god I'm glad it's over. Hopefully we get a little bit of levity from the newly cohabiting couple before some new stupid thing happens.

last edited at Oct 2, 2023 9:05AM

Avatar252
joined Sep 12, 2023

Anyway I still kinda think the track team is going to remain a heavy focus going forward but we'll see. Hopefully some fluff first.

Takashima Hiromi says: "My child, your wish will be granted!"

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

Maybe author just wanted to draw a race.
It was really wonderful, btw
Their motions, expressions...

Avatar%20mlp%2071674---tagme
joined Jul 6, 2023

Maybe author just wanted to draw a race.
It was really wonderful, btw
Their motions, expressions...

I loved the race! I really liked how everything is from the pov of Fukami, from beginning to end. She even managed to raise a death flag!

There's a cliched situation in action movies, especially in war movies, where one character says "After I come back from this last mission I'll return to Kansas and marry my sweetheart and we'll buy a farm and have children and live as a happy family!" That character never returns from the mission. He buys the farm, only in a different way that he expected. Movie fans call this sort of moment (when somebody announces his plans for the future that will become true after just one last task) a "death flag" — because it spells certain doom for the poor sod who utters the words.

When Fukami told to herself "I'll definitely win! And I'll be roommates with Kase-san from now on and forever!" she fatally jinxed herself. Oopsie.

Absolute-territory-2.jpg
joined Mar 4, 2018

I'll always ship Kase and Kaorin together. She'd be a devoted gf (and fit!). These two boneheads just lurch from one self-created drama to the next. Her actions defy the statement "I believe in Kase."

Quantum Sufficit
Gaychidori
joined Sep 18, 2023

I'm a bit scared of entering this forum and being doxed and having to fight off hitmen but...

(this got really long and an assassination might be completely justified)

I recently reread Kase-san and remembered why it was one of my favorite manga. It's a shame, but the sequel truly feels like a completely different story with another cast of characters. Aside from the contrived plot that goes nowhere, Kase and Yamada have negative character progression at the cost of developing all of the secondary characters.

For some reason, baby gay high-schooler Yamada was much, much more assertive than college student, supposedly-adult Yamada. That's actually one of the things I liked most of the story: while very fluffy and adorable, it really felt like they were two horny teenagers in love. It wasn't just the confident, popular masc pursuing the innocent, ignorant femme who didn't realize her own feelings. There was attraction from Yamada. They both fantasized about each other, they both felt jealous despite being aware of how dumb and childish it was; they had chemistry. Heck, at one point Yamada did a very relatable 'how do girls have sex' internet search. I'm not saying that I enjoy seeing teenagers being sexualized, but it was a breath of fresh air from all the wishy-washy, cutesy yuri manga where the height of lust was literally holding hands together.

This last arc is the best worst example of what changed: their relationship feels incredibly immature. In Kase-san they had been dating for a couple of months and were so serious about each other that they were already angsty about how they'd be separated once they graduated high school—which was a year away. Then Yamada said "fuck it I'm going to the city with my girlfriend" and Kase said "cool let's move in together after my obligatory year at the dorm" and they got married and had children. Now? Now they're both such doormats for the plot that Kase lets her roommate, who barely gave her the time of day until now, decide for herself whether she moves in with her girlfriend or not, and Yamada watches it happen with the most ridiculous, far-fetched logic in the history of manga: "Wow~! College dorm rooms sure are intense! Sporty people are just built different, after all~"

Besides being the kind of nonsense that you'd find written in the diary of a particularly simple-minded thirteen-year-old, it completely undermines who the characters were so far. Kase was not so stupid and insensitive. Yamada was not so timid and pathetic. That was actually part of their initial charm. Despite appearances, Kase wasn't just a dumb jock and Yamada wasn't just a meek wallflower, and in fact that's what they liked about each other. Here it was just... forgotten. Now it really does feel like any other romance story with shallow characters and badly-written drama.

I honestly didn't want to get on this forum just to complain. But after this arc and its lackluster resolution I think these criticisms and discussions might very well be more fruitful and interesting than the manga itself. And okay, maybe I wanted to complain a little bit.

Of course, thank you to the translators and editors for the scans, I'm not saying this to discourage you at all. The series is still entertaining in a train wreck-y kind of way, and I have a morbid curiosity to see how much more the author desecrates the original story, so thanks for all the hard work!

joined Jan 14, 2020

Thanks for the analysis, Quantum!

joined Dec 29, 2022

What I still don't get is like... what is fukami's plan here? Let's say she HAD won the race and for some god forsaken reason kase gave up the plans for her own life to appease fukami. They'd be living together, sure, but the entire time both of them would know kase doesn't actually want to be there. I guess the plan would have been trying to win kase over after that but like you're already starting in a hole of resentment that, given the way she expresses her emotions, would only get worse.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

What I still don't get is like... what is fukami's plan here? Let's say she HAD won the race and for some god forsaken reason kase gave up the plans for her own life to appease fukami. They'd be living together, sure, but the entire time both of them would know kase doesn't actually want to be there. I guess the plan would have been trying to win kase over after that but like you're already starting in a hole of resentment that, given the way she expresses her emotions, would only get worse.

I agree with everything you say here, but my question still is "what was the writer's plan here"?

From the very start the premise seemed both implausible (why would Fukami have the slightest bit of leverage over where Kase lives in the first place?) and pointless (Kase was never going to lose that race).

The whole arc was just a puzzling misstep in what has long been one of my all-time favorite yuri fluff series.

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

What I still don't get is like... what is fukami's plan here? Let's say she HAD won the race and for some god forsaken reason kase gave up the plans for her own life to appease fukami. They'd be living together, sure, but the entire time both of them would know kase doesn't actually want to be there. I guess the plan would have been trying to win kase over after that but like you're already starting in a hole of resentment that, given the way she expresses her emotions, would only get worse.

I agree with everything you say here, but my question still is "what was the writer's plan here"?

From the very start the premise seemed both implausible (why would Fukami have the slightest bit of leverage over where Kase lives in the first place?) and pointless (Kase was never going to lose that race).

The whole arc was just a puzzling misstep in what has long been one of my all-time favorite yuri fluff series.

Well, looking at that particular scene, it was something Fukami came up with on the fly, so she didn't really have time to think it through in any case. And Kase was most likely going to decline anyway, until the idiot squad dropped in and things escalated to the point where she was unable to say no due to senpai unnecessarily making it her decision. So yeah, Fukami never really had a plan in the first place.

1278708461280
joined Mar 10, 2013

I had the tiniest hope that Kase would lose the race and save this whole arc with some character development, but no, what a waste of Time. How can you call yourself a storyteller and have like ten freaking chapters amount to nothing.

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