OK, I've decided that I will take this manga as a guilty pleasure. From now on, I will turn my mind off and won't think in any implication while reading this.

By the way:

last edited at May 19, 2019 8:07AM

This manga makes me feel comfortable.

Very interesting to read these arguments. This author isn't a dummy...he or she is toting a very fine line.

I think Hino's too shameless. Even if I liked someone in a lewd way, I wouldn't be pushing it like that until "I like you," "I like you too," was established. I don't get how she could actually just stand there and not go wait by the sink. That's what makes it fetish instead of respectful, and it takes away from Hino being portrayed as a human being. At least say like, "well if I wasn't in the stall, I could still hear you pee," in the moment. Anyone would want to make it less awkward in that moment, unless they're just an outright perv with no interest in the person as a person and not just a sexual object.

What I find more alarming is, "I have a childish body, so no one will grope me." Women in Japan better not seriously think that. I'm pretty sure 50% of men and lesbians are into child-looking women or girls. And most of them probably act on it at some point in their lives, whether it be IRL or porn. Because we live in a world where we're all hurt and "feel empty inside" like Hino because life is hard and people mean a lot to us. It's easier to objectify them and keep them at a distance after a certain amount of pain suffered from others.

Ok...that was... a thing.... and it happened...good. Now lest's move to less scatological stuff, hopefully.

EDIT: At least she apologized at the end, though. I feel it's important since otherwise the manga would paint Hino as a sadic person taking advantage of Koguma's unconditional love if things are left to escalate constantly without any sort of check in between.

last edited at May 19, 2019 8:43AM

RPPuzzle posted:

I don't get how she could actually just stand there and not go wait by the sink.

Well, the point was that Hino had to go in with her because they agreed to hold hands until getting to the classroom. If they separate for Hino to wait by the sink, at this point there was no reason for her to go with Koguma to the toilet in the first place. So saying she only did it because of fetish is ignoring the context of the scene.

last edited at May 19, 2019 8:39AM

Comfy manga

So saying she only did it because of fetish is ignoring the context of the scene.

“Ignoring context” is a way of life around here.

Blastaar posted:

So saying she only did it because of fetish is ignoring the context of the scene.

“Ignoring context” is a way of life around here.

Touche

yo what the fuck

After reading the last three chapters multiple times I think that both Hino and Koguma are responsible for what happened. Koguma didn't have to push herself this far for Hino's sake. She keeps doing way too much for others at her own expense . Hino knows this and while she clearly tried to get her to reject going into the bathroom with her, Koguma still went along with Hino's demand because she doesn't think of her as negatively as Hino herself. Sure, she should have backed out the moment Koguma agreed to come with her, but I don't think it's okay to gang up on her for not being able to predict the outcome of every single decision she makes. Hino did let go of Koguma's hand and agreed to turn around and cover her ears. I'd also like to point out that Koguma agreeing to let Hino take her panties down when she could've done that herself might've given Hino the wrong idea about her feelings. Hino did realize that she crossed Koguma's boundaries and apologized for it. Her apology wasn't just accepted , Koguma reassured Hino that she wasn't hurt nearly enough to come to hate her . Consent is extremely important, but that's exactly why you shouldn't judge people merely for not having your sensibilities . Just because you feel a certain way towards being at a certain distance or performing certain acts with certain people doesn't mean that everyone must have the exact same no-no threshold as you. Imposing your values upon others regardless of how these values affect them is coercive and no amount of good intent or moral justification will change that. Also, neither fetishes nor sexuality itself are inherently objectifying. It's the attitude towards the other person that makes the difference. As long as you value your partner's feelings on the same level as yours and ask for consent in a pressure-free environment it's perfectly okay to act on your desires.

I'm really on the fence about this... whether Koguma unknowingly has a proclivity for masochism, or she just has some kind of personality disorder/emotional problem. If it's the former, it's just cheeky fun, but if it's the latter, Hino's behavior is cruel and abusive.

last edited at May 19, 2019 10:38AM

This arc is weird. The big reveal where they (albeit somewhat unintentionally(?)) come out to their classmates was glossed over to spend two chapters in a toilet stall conducting a bizarre impromptu trust exercise.

It just dawned on me, this whole series is like a game we use to play back in middle school called chicken. To play, the boy would put his hand on the girl's foot or ankle, then move it incrementally up her leg. After every move, the boy would ask "Are you chicken?". If she said yes, the boy would have to stop.
Essentially Hino and Koguma are playing chicken, and they both let the game get out of hand. Either one of them could have said "wait this is going to far." So It's both of their faults. And now It's awkward for everyboby, including the reader.
Honestly while, I found myself a little weirded out by these developments, I didn't have nearly as strong reaction as other people has seemed to have. It makes me wonder, am I jaded?

last edited at May 19, 2019 11:57AM

I just feel like people are too harsh on both characters, given their ages, and hints about their background, they are flawed characters with hino-san has 0 socialize skill (I do interpret her sometimes pushy attitude as her lack of skill of reading people emotions, gestures, etc) and koguma-san 0 sense of self. I give benefits of the doubt for both characters because they do GROW. that is important than taking the characters at one point of the manga timeline and do psychoanalysis on them as if they are fully functional adults.

After this I could tell exactly what was gonna happen in Nana Yuri lol. These two toilets handholding challenge scenes are so similar. I want more of these.
Also, why's everyone so freaked out, don't men pee together all the time?
As people mentioned before, Koguma could easily tell Hino to leave told but she only asked her to look away. And look at her face, she was clearly enjoying it.

I had the faintest epiphany here:

I'm reminded of the very often used trope, especially in cute slice-of-life manga, where at a sleep over, someone has someone else bring them to the bathroom in the dark, because they're scared or don't want to be alone. There's even the condition that they have to stay right by the door.

I cannot imagine that in this circumstance, you wouldn't hear the business of whoever's beyond the door. Obviously, this manga takes a different context than those but realistically, I don't think a big deal is made during those moments.

I feel like this "hearing other person on the toilet" thing is just a punchline that is, somehow, being taken disproportionately. It's not a big a deal except for Hino, at that moment. Then, as demonstrated, she got over it by the next chapter.

Just my two cents.

I just feel like people are too harsh on both characters, given their ages, and hints about their background, they are flawed characters with hino-san has 0 socialize skill (I do interpret her sometimes pushy attitude as her lack of skill of reading people emotions, gestures, etc) and koguma-san 0 sense of self. I give benefits of the doubt for both characters because they do GROW. that is important than taking the characters at one point of the manga timeline and do psychoanalysis on them as if they are fully functional adults.

That's true, but I'll reserve my final judgement on the following chapters. If the following chapters shows that they've grown with Hino being more careful with Koguma's feelings then it'll be all good. And Koguma has shown in ch32 that she can somewhat stand up for herself and refuse one of Hino's demands even with the threat of her skipping class, hopefully she can maintain this growth and refuse Hino the next time she went too far.
But the problem is with these SoL mangas there's usually minimal or no character growth and this stuff will just be forgotten. What usually happens is the two will completely forget about this so the next time Hino has an opportunity to do something even more creepy she would have already forgotten about this [Pissing Saga] and will just do said creepy stuff without hesitation and Koguma will just obey Hino without trying to stand up for herself again.

Also, why's everyone so freaked out, don't men pee together all the time?

Because men usually don't mind being watched peeing by other men so it's fine. If Koguma don't mind being watched peeing then it'll be fine too but the problem here is that she clearly doesn't want to be watched.

last edited at May 19, 2019 12:39PM

Mangadex is using "Hino-san is a dummy" as english title but she keeps saying "Jerk!" ... I can't deal with this

Because men usually don't mind being watched peeing by other men so it's fine. If Koguma don't mind being watched peeing then it'll be fine too but the problem here is that she clearly doesn't want to be watched.

She was not being watched tho. And again, she didn't ask her to wait for her outside.

Everybody's peein all the time. Do you know what happens if someone sees you peeing?

ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING

last edited at May 19, 2019 3:30PM

I mean, it was bad enough that Koguma couldn't face Hino the next day, at least until Hino guilt tripped her (which, btw, she also did to coerce Koguma into letting her come into the stall). Unless Koguma is into this stuff (humiliation fetish...?), Hino is knowingly manipulating and exploiting her.

Having said that, they have made it explicit that Koguma isn't just doing this because she feels responsible, and she clearly has other "normal" friends, aaaand she was the one who suggested doing the cat thing again... So I honestly think she's just an oblivious unawakened pervert.

TheWidow-Sensei posted:

Everybody's peein all the time. Do you know what happens if someone sees you peeing?

ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING

One or two people awaken a new fetish

Anjelika posted:

It's kinda a cultural thing, so, people, don't judge.

That's a 'yikes' too. Just what kind of warped conception of Japanese people lives in your head? If you took any random person off a street in Japan, odds are extremely high they're not a toilet fetishist.

If you took any random person off the street in any country, odds are rather high that they don't have any fetish at all.

I just mean that it's a fetish more often depicted in Japanese fiction than others, because of cultural reasons. I won't go into every details, but Japanese and toilets have a "special" relationship.

There's even a whole Wikipedia page about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan

will they start dating already?????

If you took any random person off the street in any country, odds are rather high that they don't have any fetish at all.

Someone needs to visit the Kinsey Institute website and read a few reports.