non-consensual implies Koguma said no

It's 2019, don't you know "she didn't say no" is extremely out of vogue? She was coerced into doing it.

Koguma has shown several times that she is quite capable of it. And I already shot a hole into the coercion thing.

Welp. I liked these chapters. Waiting for them to finally date.

"Yikes, reeee, protect the fictional character, she can't think or speak for herself in her own fictional world and everything she wants doesn't matter because I know better"

Pretty sure Koguma can handle herself just fine. I really don't like it when people treat female characters like they need a guardian that speaks for them on their behalf. It's bad enough when that happens irl.

non-consensual implies Koguma said no

It's 2019, don't you know "she didn't say no" is extremely out of vogue? She was coerced into doing it.

Koguma has shown several times that she is quite capable of it. And I already shot a hole into the coercion thing.

A tiny meaningless hole but sure. If you power on over someone's hesitance because "They didn't say no" especially if part of why they didn't say no is because you've given them an ultimatum then there's no consent. Period. It's not a shades of grey issue. Consent isn't "Not no" it's "Yes."

But yeah I'm dropping this, Hino is officially just kind of repulsive to me at this point.

Koguma has shown several times that she is quite capable of it. And I already shot a hole into the coercion thing.

A tiny meaningless hole but sure. If you power on over someone's hesitance because "They didn't say no" especially if part of why they didn't say no is because you've given them an ultimatum then there's no consent. Period. It's not a shades of grey issue. Consent isn't "Not no" it's "Yes."

But yeah I'm dropping this, Hino is officially just kind of repulsive to me at this point.

Hino hasn't done anything aside from saying they should hold hands together. She let go of Koguma's hand when she saw that it was too much for her. Koguma could have told her to leave, without repercussions at that point as she already let go of her hand, yet didn't. When Koguma told her to cover her ears she did.

Literally all the power is on Koguma's side, with Hino only having the "I won't go to class" card as a starter.
If there are no consequences, not saying she should leave is just her own fault at that point. Read the chapters again carefully and this becomes blatantly obvious.

EDIT:
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hino_san_no_baka_ch30#6
In this scene Hino quite blatantly tells her to just let go and do it on her own. She is giving her every out. In the first place the whole bathroom thing was more of a joke suggestion, but Koguma doesn't refuse. As I mentioned before, she seems to be pushing as far as she can to find out when Kgouma will finally push her away, even though she is afraid of that too.
The only thing you can blame Hino for is being opportunistic.

last edited at May 19, 2019 6:19AM

This chapter made me very uncomfortable. "Let me go to the bathroom stall with you or else" Yeah. This made me realize what that nagging feeling in my mind was when I first started reading this. I don't like Hino.

Don't know why some of you can't even let it go when Hino had already apologized the next chapter because she herself realized that she had gone overboard and Koguma makes it clear that she accepted the apology. It's as if chapter 32 doesn't exist. Of course, certain readers can choose not to pardon Hino for her action this time but Koguma is written to be fine with it and I'm going to continue reading because I'm myself is fine with what's going on. Also, I think Hino was testing out the water, to see how far Koguma would go, whether she's capable of saying no straight to her face, which is evident in chapter 32 that she's indeed possesses the ability to do so, though it also somewhat affected Hino's mentality, which is whether she's serious about that or not is up to debate. Either way, I think Hino was trying to teach Koguma to say no and push unnecessary obligations away, because it had been told since the start of the series that Koguma is too nice for her own good. (forced to become the class president, e.t.c)

Alright, umm... Mixed feelings? Chapter 30: liked it, with even the "to be continued" meme music playing in ny head when seeing the to be continued at the end of it. Chapter 31: kinda creepy, but also kinda hilarious (the biggest reason why I have mixed feelings about today's translations of this manga). Chapter 32: Great.

This chapter made me very uncomfortable. "Let me go to the bathroom stall with you or else"

That's not what happened.

Don't know why some of you can't even let it go when Hino had already apologized the next chapter because she herself realized that she had gone overboard and Koguma makes it clear that she accepted the apology. It's as if chapter 32 doesn't exist. Of course, certain readers can choose not to pardon Hino for her action this time but Koguma is written to be fine with it and I'm going to continue reading because I'm myself is fine with what's going on. Also, I think Hino was testing out the water, to see how far Koguma would go, whether she's capable of saying no straight to her face, which is evident in chapter 32 that she's indeed possesses the ability to do so, though it also somewhat affected Hino's mentality, which is whether she's serious about that or not is up to debate. Either way, I think Hino was trying to teach Koguma to say no and push unnecessary obligations away, because it had been told since the start of the series that Koguma is too nice for her own good. (forced to become the class president, e.t.c)

I don't care if Koguma is fine with it, I found it incredibly creepy and it's made me unable to look at Hino the same way anymore so I can't enjoy this story. Fictional characters are fine with lots of heinous shit if it furthers the author's agenda and you're not like disrespecting the fictional character's choices if you reject them you're rejecting the author's values that they are a mouthpiece for.

If this lewdness keeps up we need nsfw tag ಠ_ಠ

I don't care if Koguma is fine with it, I found it incredibly creepy and it's made me unable to look at Hino the same way anymore so I can't enjoy this story. Fictional characters are fine with lots of heinous shit if it furthers the author's agenda and you're not like disrespecting the fictional character's choices if you reject them you're rejecting the author's values that they are a mouthpiece for.

When you take it personally like this, then it's clearly time to stop reading, all right.

Why are people making such a big deal out of this manga? It is a work of fiction. If you do not like it, then stop reading it. I am fed up with people white knighting fictional characters.
If you want to know what is really messed up, read the prison lab manga (Not Yuri). That shait will hunt you forever.

Ah shit, here we go again. Cleanup on aisle 3 incoming, and it ain't Koguma ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

This chapter made me very uncomfortable. "Let me go to the bathroom stall with you or else"

That's not what happened.

That's exactly what happened. Hino said if Koguma let go of her hand then won't go to the class. This is an ultimatum, which immediately makes the whole thing creepy, regardless of what Koguma wants. I know the whole manga is supposed to be a joke. I also know that Hino never did anything with an ill intention. That's why I didn't complain when she did pretty questionable things before. But chapter 31 was very fetish-y and bordered on bullying rather than harmless teasing. Invading people's privacy when they pee and when they are clearly reluctant? Come on Hino, you can do better as a decent human being.

However, I am not dropping this manga yet, since Hino apologized in the next chapter. She seemed to be genuinely sorry about what she did, and probably won't do it again. I still don't like her, but I'm willing to give her a chance.

last edited at May 19, 2019 7:53AM

That's exactly what happened. Hino said if Koguma let go of her hand then won't go to the class. This is an ultimatum, which immediately makes the whole thing creepy, regardless of what Koguma wants. I know the whole manga is supposed to be a joke. I also know that Hino never did anything with an ill intention. That's why I didn't complain when she did pretty questionable things before. But chapter 31 was very fetish-y and bordered on bullying rather than harmless teasing. Invading people's privacy when they pee and when they are clearly reluctant? Come on Hino, you can do better as a decent human being.

However, I am not dropping this manga yet, since Hino apologized in the next chapter. She seemed to be genuinely sorry about what she did, and probably won't do it again. I still don't like her, but I'm willing to give her a chance.

The "ultimatum" only extended towards holding hands towards the classroom. The bathroom part was not mandatory, as Hino already said Koguma should let go. Even further, when Koguma was too uncomfortable Hino let go of the hand, ending the "ultimatum" (what an overdramatic word for something far less sinister). From that point onward, everything was on Koguma.

Sure it's creepy, but if that's her fetish... All I'm defending here is that fact that Koguma wasn't forced into anything and Hino NEVER said anything about "Let me go into the stall with you or else". That was never part of any deal.

last edited at May 19, 2019 8:27AM

OK, I've decided that I will take this manga as a guilty pleasure. From now on, I will turn my mind off and won't think in any implication while reading this.

By the way:

last edited at May 19, 2019 8:07AM

This manga makes me feel comfortable.

Very interesting to read these arguments. This author isn't a dummy...he or she is toting a very fine line.

I think Hino's too shameless. Even if I liked someone in a lewd way, I wouldn't be pushing it like that until "I like you," "I like you too," was established. I don't get how she could actually just stand there and not go wait by the sink. That's what makes it fetish instead of respectful, and it takes away from Hino being portrayed as a human being. At least say like, "well if I wasn't in the stall, I could still hear you pee," in the moment. Anyone would want to make it less awkward in that moment, unless they're just an outright perv with no interest in the person as a person and not just a sexual object.

What I find more alarming is, "I have a childish body, so no one will grope me." Women in Japan better not seriously think that. I'm pretty sure 50% of men and lesbians are into child-looking women or girls. And most of them probably act on it at some point in their lives, whether it be IRL or porn. Because we live in a world where we're all hurt and "feel empty inside" like Hino because life is hard and people mean a lot to us. It's easier to objectify them and keep them at a distance after a certain amount of pain suffered from others.

Ok...that was... a thing.... and it happened...good. Now lest's move to less scatological stuff, hopefully.

EDIT: At least she apologized at the end, though. I feel it's important since otherwise the manga would paint Hino as a sadic person taking advantage of Koguma's unconditional love if things are left to escalate constantly without any sort of check in between.

last edited at May 19, 2019 8:43AM

RPPuzzle posted:

I don't get how she could actually just stand there and not go wait by the sink.

Well, the point was that Hino had to go in with her because they agreed to hold hands until getting to the classroom. If they separate for Hino to wait by the sink, at this point there was no reason for her to go with Koguma to the toilet in the first place. So saying she only did it because of fetish is ignoring the context of the scene.

last edited at May 19, 2019 8:39AM

Comfy manga

So saying she only did it because of fetish is ignoring the context of the scene.

“Ignoring context” is a way of life around here.

Blastaar posted:

So saying she only did it because of fetish is ignoring the context of the scene.

“Ignoring context” is a way of life around here.

Touche

yo what the fuck