I could think of worse punishments. LIke the Glasses tag. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I've worn glasses for the last 30+ years, I AM the Glasses tag. D:

Welp. If you are the Glasses tag then I guess I'll just have to become M for you.

I wonder if that makes this wholesome S&M...

No Wholesome for you two either anymore. You both also now get Feet instead.

I could think of worse punishments. LIke the Glasses tag. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

BugDevil posted:

For example there is nothing wholesome about BDSM to me, even if both parties are completely comfortable with the arrangement. And no... aftercare is not wholesome. it's just the bare minimum recompensation after something close to voluntary abuse.

Wow, and you just proved you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. It was a while since I read something so ignorant and grossly misunderstanding something, I'll just pretend I didn't see it.

Funny coming from you of all people. Hypocrites will always be hypocrites, alas.

You missed the point Nevri. This is not about BDSM. It was merely an example of something that does not fit under the wholesome tag, whether it's happy, nice, good or whatever else you believe it to be. There is no version of BDSM that fits under this tag. You may be offended by my overstated phrasing, but it does not mean I am ignorant.

Secondly, it implies that BDSM doesn't involve expression of love.

What a joke. You sure love putting words into people's mouths. Ew.

At least your little rant proved my point once again. If everything can be wholesome, then it sure is hard to define.

last edited at May 15, 2020 12:50PM

I also believe extreme perversion and sexual content, even if no negative feelings are involved cannot be considered wholesome.

I agree, and I think most people would. That's the "innocent, pure" part of my definition. I can certainly imagine people debating the exact line (maybe some people think anything sexual at all can't be wholesome, while I personally hold the opinion that some stuff with a focus on the feelings of love and not the naughty bits is still wholesome), but I doubt there are that many people who are calling extreme fetish material wholesome.

I have never had an argument with someone who so completely agrees with me... what a weird day.
As the term of wholesomeness has been watered down in the recent years I feel pretty confident that there are people who would consider anything consensual and happy Wholesome .

Funny you would be so aggressive just because you agree with my interpretation of the tag and can't imagine any other interpretation. lol

I'm sorry if I came off as aggressive. But I do believe most people have the same understanding of the word, and I don't like the idea of killing the tag just because people will argue about it. I think that, even if a few manga are miscategorised, it's better to have a tag that lets people find the stuff they're looking for than to shut out that possibility altogether. Particularly in this case, since there's a pretty big market for people looking for wholesome manga.

I didn't say to get rid of the tag. Rather I consider it a joke tag, of which this site has many anyway.
The other course of action would be to more tightly define the term, but ultimately it matters little...

^ You too like vanilla?

Inject it straight into my veins.

I didn't realise it until I looked at their Pixiv, but this artist has another lovely ReiMari doujin I've read before that's been translated on Danbooru. It's very cute.

Actually, they have multiple. I love Vanilla's work.

There is literally another one here on Dynasty from 2018.

I don't know where you're seeing people that have a completely opposite meaning of "wholesome". It's a word with a pretty clearcut meaning, and I can only imagine the temporary application to a **** doujin was an obvious mistake, not a clash of subjective views that conveniently validates your opposition to the tag perfectly. Likewise, the person you're referring to wasn't saying that a happy ending alone is all that's needed for wholesome tag, just that the tag would fill a similar purpose in helping find manga that leave you smiling.

Innocent, pure, a focus on happy, positive emotions to the exclusion of things that invoke strong negative emotions - I think this capture what a wholesome manga is, which lines up with your view of it as synonymous with fluff, I believe. If people substantively disagree, I'd be interested to hear it, but I feel like this understanding of the word is just about universal. On that note, you say that it doesn't make sense to apply it to Tadokoro-san, which is about as fluffy as it gets. Why do you think so?

Funny you would be so aggressive just because you agree with my interpretation of the tag and can't imagine any other interpretation. lol

I already gave pretty succinct examples I believe. Many people indeed have the opinion that if a story ends well, all bad things in it are wiped away. I have been told several times about "nice and wholesome" stories which were drama fests that just had a nice conclusion.

I also believe extreme perversion and sexual content, even if no negative feelings are involved cannot be considered wholesome. For example there is nothing wholesome about BDSM to me, even if both parties are completely comfortable with the arrangement. And no... aftercare is not wholesome. it's just the bare minimum recompensation after something close to voluntary abuse.

Now that I drew the ire of everyone who loves these things let me repeat that I am entirely speaking in context of the tag, I am not against any of these things in general. I read more drama than fluff most of the time even.

As for Tadokoro-san I won't even bother. This is neither the right thread nor really relevant. Suffice it to say our opinions already diverge there, proving my point.

last edited at May 15, 2020 10:01AM

You don't have to define something quantitatively for it to have an agreed upon meaning. The tag is only a day old, and only two one-shots and three series have it. Let's give it a bit of time to settle and we can come up with a reasonable understanding.

Of course tags like that already exist. Hence why people keep arguing what tags even apply to some stories out of a very distinct interpretation of what it actually means.
And in this tag's case for example I do not agree that a happy ending equals a wholesome story. If you went through 10 chapters of pure undiluted dirty drama that ends in a happy and fluffy situation I'd not say the story was wholesome. Similarily extreme perversion or sexual focus are not wholesome just because both characters are into it.

To me Wholesome is a tag interchangable with Vanilla or Fluff. And I am sure there are plenty of people completely opposite on the opinion spectrum of that. I believe this tag is almost too subjective to be properly applied is all, unless used very sparingly on very obvious cases.

last edited at May 15, 2020 7:07AM

Ahhh this is what Marisa x Reimu is all about! The mix of goofiness and a slightly heavy note. Where every move is like a step in a dance that only the audience perceives. The perfect amount of fluff and a wonderful artstyle to go with it. I'll take 3 dozen more thanks!

PS: The author's name is so accurate I wanna cry. This is what I live for~

I'm glad to see that Futaribeya and both versions of Tadokoro-san were put under this tag.

The first makes sense, the second doesn't. And it was even (temporarily) put on a messed up h-doujin about rape. Clearly wholesome is not a term you can logically quantify. Ultra subjective. Doctor Hoot is right, it sure is a joke tag.

last edited at May 15, 2020 6:58AM

There won't be any milk Edel, no matter how hard you suck.

Why did this doujin get the Wholesome tag, out of everything else?

Because all too often Dynasty cares more about memes than accuracy.

Sorry, despite the succinct description I am not entirely sure what this tag is actually about.
Are we talking about literal idiots(lacking intelligence) or people who just behave like idiots or airheads or dense characters? Couples without common sense?

It seems awfully vague tbh.

^...what? Bulla is Bulma's and Vegeta's daughter. Pan is Gohan and Videl's daughter. They aren't remotely related.

Was it necessary to put this specific chapter about the budding romance between side characters, right at this point of the plot? I'm 100% all for the pair but come on. Before the Izumi issue, we had Fujishiro starting to realize her feelings and we're not gonna follow up on that? I'm fine with this chapter but can the author seriously not put this after more development with the damn main characters. I seriously want to be excited for Izumi x Iroha, but I came in this chapter expecting just a TINY bit of progression with Fujishiro and Kurokawa.

What are you talking about? Fujishiro's realization has already been diverted to friendship during Izumi's confession chapters. There is not going to be any extreme progress from that.

90% of this manga was about Fujishiro and Kurokawa's relationship and suddenly everyone jumps at the author for doing a side-arc of just 4 chapters.

Some people have the patience of a common house fly.

"Everyone" is strangely lacking for once. Oh well, Bakarina is as clueless as ever anyway.

Servants get to touch their masters so much without repercussions. No wonder this type of romance is a tale as old as time.

^For a pseudo art expert you have trouble with the strangest things.
Two girls stand in a shallow river after riding there with a bike. The right one is crying and the left one licks her tears.

last edited at May 12, 2020 2:01AM

Give Aerith a folding chair and suddenly the kicked becomes the ass.
Uh... that sounded better in my brain.

@Norainhere
Get back to reading it right now instead of asking pointless questions! Rawr!

Couldn't agree more. So much cuter without glasses.

Is Kurokawa still the MC? Lol.

Was she ever? I am nearly 99% certain that Fujishiro is the MC and Kurokawa is just the one whose persepctive we followed at first.

To be fair, that flag has been there for many chapters now. Both Hino and Koguma seem to have issues with their respective looks (Hino’s issues appear to run deeper, though, if some of her offhand comments are any indication), while also finding their counterpart to be far more attractive. That’s probably been a bigger obstacle to them getting together than any sort of obliviousness has, since they both don’t seem to think that it’s even possible that someone could be attracted to them. Heck, I’d argue that Hino isn’t even that dense, just self-loathing to the point of ignoring the signs as being indications of the impossible.

I was not necessarily talking about looks. I am pretty sure Hino-san doesn't like her own personality at all. She seems to regret half the things she does the moment she does them. There have been many instances where Hino-san already pointed out that Koguma shouldn't bother with her.

When I talk about the "I'm not good enough for you" flag, I straight up mean in a confession scenario or indirect romantic advance. Hell I can even imagine the panel. For some reason they are in the right mood and almost instinctively kiss, but then Hino-san backs out. Seems pretty possible, eh?

It's not like this came out of nowhere. The two of them have been shipteased for a while now.
Fujishiro was very important in this arc already, so we just need more focus on Kurokawa again. I think the screen time balance until now has been pretty fair.

Well I'll admit that I haven't laughed as much as I wish I had. While (so far) there were definitely stand out episodes where I've burst out laughing, most of them never really got more then chuckle out of me. This is probably because the references were going over my head and dialog based humor isn't really my thing. It's always the jokes that rely on comedic timing that get me the most and the episodes I consider to be funniest (Katsura's introduction episode, the panty thief episode and the ghost bug episode) utilize this the most.

Also I am very hyped (and a bit scared) about the serious arcs. In fact my main reason for starting this show was the critical acclaim the final two arcs of season 4 got.

Gintama uses every type of humor, from complex layered jokes to basic poop jokes... and they all land. But it is true that the majority of the humor is dialogue based, so you'll have to get used to that. There are a lot of visual gags and slapstick too though and the sheer absurdity this anime goes to is unbelievable.

Well I don't exactly remember which was the first serious arc(because I actually prefer humor over fighting), but the fights can get absolutely to levels of high budget Shounen anime. They do get more intense over time, so don't expect it to go all out right away. Just relax and coast along, because this is a long anime with a steady upwards curve. lol