I mean, say what you will about CENSORSHIP and whatnot, but I don't think any country wants to be known as a haven for pedophiles, [...].

Everybody knows molesting a child is bad, everybody knows that in almost all cases dating a minor or having a large age-gap at younger ages can be problematic. As long as you know this, I don't see the problem with these kind of stories*, they're just wishful thinking - it's exactly because they can't work in real life that people who enjoys them like the whole idea : also, hentai or violent stories aside, those kind of stories tend to be filled with diabetes inducing sweetness.

Now for the dubious analogy : Everybody knows murder is a bad thing, in most cases, you shouldn't kill anybody because taking a life is not a trivial thing and can hurt a lot of people, even the one who accomplishes the act. However, there are numerous stories/medium glorifying the act depending on the context, painting it as something justified or even positive, and are critically acclaimed and accepted by many - mostly to cater to (for some of us) our inner anger, some kind of cathartic stuff to expel any violent urges, or just to let off steam after a stressful day. Those films didn't make murder or murderers more accepted in society, I assume it's the same for lolicon stories; so why censor them?

I guess it's an unpopular opinion and most people will keep seeing those stories as a way to make paedophilia acceptable (since there are still people believing videogames makes you into a mass murdering psychopath) so, in the end, it will probably be censored.

* Except for those for which/whom/who(?) it hit too close to home (like Jess in this thread), but the same goes with those who had any trauma or problem, rape victims, those who lost a loved one, etc., if you have take into consideration every single one individual that might get offended or hurt by a story or just a portion of it, you won't have many stories left. Best thing to do is to warn people of what is inside the story, which is what is done in here, so you can avoid what you don't like and prevent your children from reading what you don't want them to (because think of the children!).

@Jess, I'm glad to see that you're comfortable enough with your trauma to talk about them, but I can't help to wonder why you started to read the story if it hurt you that much? Perhaps some kind of therapy to face it? I admire your courage anyway. Sorry if I'm intruding, feel free to ignore my message or insult me. If it's too much, you can delete this part, Nezchan.

last edited at Feb 14, 2018 10:35AM

The issue being Kodomo no Jikan got one back when the anime environment was more friendly for those sorts of things.

Darmn, I miss those days

So, you miss those days wherein lolis were fetishized and student-teacher relations involving a 10? year old girl were glorified?

Yes.

The issue being Kodomo no Jikan got one back when the anime environment was more friendly for those sorts of things.

Darmn, I miss those days

So, you miss those days wherein lolis were fetishized and student-teacher relations involving a 10? year old girl were glorified?

Yes.

Nice bruv <3

Now for the dubious analogy : Everybody knows murder is a bad thing, in most cases, you shouldn't kill anybody because taking a life is not a trivial thing and can hurt a lot of people, even the one who accomplishes the act. However, there are numerous stories/medium glorifying the act depending on the context, painting it as something justified or even positive, and are critically acclaimed and accepted by many - mostly to cater to (for some of us) our inner anger, some kind of cathartic stuff to expel any violent urges, or just to let off steam after a stressful day. Those films didn't make murder or murderers more accepted in society, I assume it's the same for lolicon stories; so why censor them?

I guess it's an unpopular opinion and most people will keep seeing those stories as a way to make paedophilia acceptable (since there are still people believing videogames makes you into a mass murdering psychopath) so, in the end, it will probably be censored.

Hm. I don't really disagree, but think that’s a somewhat grey area, as there are some very different stories out there in this “genre”.

This one is pretty harmless in my opinion. Mimika is very much conscious of the boundaries, which after all still apply to herself as well, seeing as she is also rather young. Many young couples do not jump over the line that requires Romeo and Juliet laws for a long time, with relationships lasting years before they become consummated in any form (if ever, although media can play a role here). Her level of infatuation is, of course, displayed as somewhat over the top, but it always feels as if she is essentially at risk of dying from cuteness overload, rather than going down a much more questionable route.

The grey area is one that may be argued to function as a catharsis, with characters so over the top or caricatured that it cannot be taken entirely seriously (e.g. most NSFW Lucky Star doujins on this site). It is a “safe” projection of fantasies, as it does not link back to real life. Think Lester Burnham’s reaction in “American Beauty” (1) when he and Angela, the cheerleader from his daughter’s class onto which he had projected his fantasies, are suddenly in a corresponding real-world scenario: a few simple words from her shatter his fantasy, making him realise that she is still only as mature as his 16yo daughter (if that), and he stops his advances. It is that sudden gulf between fantasy and reality that acts as a real-life safety system.

Other stories… Well. While I can follow the cathartic argument in the case of the grey area, there are some manga out there that cross a line. For example, there is not enough brain bleach to ever let me read Prism innocently again after making the grievous error of looking up some of Shou’s other works; some of which contain parts that are almost instructions of how to groom and “train” kids (the excellent drawing style does not help - and no, do not make the same mistake I did). Those types of things are beyond something that can be excused as cathartic for readers, going into the territory of inspiration and a how-to-guide, and some of the stuff out there makes Shou's worst seem harmless and reasonable. That stuff can indeed be dangerous, in particular for those who are already prone to being susceptible (2). It is also illegal in most countries.

As said at the beginning, in my mind Yuzumori-san is in the "mostly harmless" category; and so far, Ejima Eri has managed to skirt that edge rather well. Hopefully that continues.

(1) and yes, from today’s perspective, and in particular in this context, it is rather unfortunate that Kevin Spacey played that role, but it is the most prominent example I could think of

(2) herein lies the risk with the whole “video games create psychopaths” argument. They can indeed be harmful to those who are already walking that path, with some very few exceptions cynically catering to that part of the market. The bulk of games fall squarely into the other two categories, rendering them a form of entertainment that allows you to get rid of aggression, rather than plan some murder spree. Movies are very similar in that regard.

I think Mimika was telling the truth when she said she'd love Yuzumori as she grows up ΑΝD that she wished she was older already. So Mimika CAN be attracted to Yuzumori, as she was, but also to older girls. In other words, Mimika's probably going to be fine. She has a long time to work through her obvious arrested development.

tl;dr Mimika and Yuzumori move to France. The End.

last edited at Feb 14, 2018 9:38PM

@Jess, I'm glad to see that you're comfortable enough with your trauma to talk about them, but I can't help to wonder why you started to read the story if it hurt you that much? Perhaps some kind of therapy to face it? I admire your courage anyway. Sorry if I'm intruding, feel free to ignore my message or insult me. If it's too much, you can delete this part, Nezchan.

Hmm if I recall this correctly I started reading it because I love Yuri and there was nothing else to read that day. Also the first chapters are kind of not.. "Too much" , well talking about this stuff is still awkward and I have to push myself BUT I saw people discussing pedophilia here and I thought that a kid/now adult first hand experience would add to the convo, and thank you for saying that You admire my courage c: . Feel free to ask more questions

Also: I want that time skiep soooo bad xD

Everybody knows molesting a child is bad, everybody knows that in almost all cases dating a minor or having a large age-gap at younger ages can be problematic. As long as you know this, I don't see the problem with these kind of stories*, they're just wishful thinking - it's exactly because they can't work in real life that people who enjoys them like the whole idea : also, hentai or violent stories aside, those kind of stories tend to be filled with diabetes inducing sweetness.

I guess it's an unpopular opinion and most people will keep seeing those stories as a way to make paedophilia acceptable (since there are still people believing videogames makes you into a mass murdering psychopath) so, in the end, it will probably be censored.

It's complicated because you have to consider not just the effect on say adults who read it but also on children who get exposed to the more "acceptable" stuff on TV and such. And the thing is there are people who wanna make excuses for pedophilia and make it more acceptable. Those people exist.

Whenever this stuff comes up people try to use what they perceive as conventional wisdom, which is really just another way of saying something is your own biases and what you take for granted.

The existence of loli manga and loli fanservice may not turn someone into a pedophile, but it could say dull their reactions to how and in what contexts its presented and how it might affect others. An example of this would be people arguing there's nothing wrong with sexualizing child characters in an anime for children. Could the prevalence of loli fanservice and loli anime fed that perspective? It could have, but we don't know for sure. Just like we don't know for sure what negative affects loli fanservice in children's anime might affect them.

It's complicated and ultimately with the law you have to draw an arbitrary line of where you think the risk of allowing certain speech outweighs the risks of restricting it in a particular way.

A thing people also have to understand is that media doesn't always affect us in the ways its designed to, and it doesn't always affect us as much as we expect it too.

Fight Club is a condemnation of Durden's philosophy. He's the villain. At the end of the day, tho, a lot of people leave that film liking his ideas or thinking he's badass. That wasn't the intent but it ends up being the takeaway for a lot of people.

Nothing is straightforward.

I say this as someone who thinks obscenity laws are often a dangerous tool for government to have. I say this as someone who thinks loli porn manga and such shouldn't be illegal, but that its distribution should be regulated.

At the end of the day, there's a lot we don't know and a lot we don't have studies for, and no amount of "It's definitely bad" or "It's only bad for people who are already dangerous" is gonna change that.

There can be value in even the "bad stuff" too. Victims of abuse who use porn of that abuse as an outlet or a coping tool. I don't want drawn loli porn to be completely illegal because there are people who project themselves onto the lolis in that stuff and it helps them deal with the struggle of living day to day.

Some abusers use loli porn to groom their victims. Some use normal porn to groom their victims. Is loli porn more successful at grooming victims? As far as I know we have no evidence one way or the other. Do we ban because it might be? Do we not ban because we aren't sure? Everything is gonna be about weighing pros and cons and different people are gonna weigh that stuff differently.

tldr: Nobody knows as much about this stuff as they'd like to think they do, as so rather than using their assumptions one way or the other to argue your point, accept that maybe this won't be solved on a yuri manga message board and focus your time and energy more productively.

Like on how adorable Mimika is or how many good gay anime there are this season.

What will happen if they finally go too far for people's comfort? I can't wait to find out.

last edited at Feb 20, 2018 4:23AM

What will happen if they finally go to far for people's comfort? I can't wait to find out.

No one will react just to spite you :p

I’m so glad the conflict is finally over. Also, off topic but does anybody else miss the art style from the first volume? Don’t get me wrong, the art in yuzumori-San is still lovely, but I like the volume one art the best.

Oh, look. After two deadly loli attacks, Mimika's friend is still alive.

She can't be human.

That was lovely, nice to have something cute after the drama.

I kind of miss the time when every chapter ended with a cliffhanger and me losing my shit though. =-p

I'm sure we'll be back there soon enough!

After all that we are back to this? yawn

last edited at Mar 1, 2018 7:04PM

Yuri Queen posted:

After all that we are back to this? yawn

What didja expect? more drama?

"we'll leave the lolicon be ... " - loved that line :D

Shii and Ririha will get along like a house on fire, methinks. :3

Yuri Queen posted:

After all that we are back to this? yawn

What didja expect? more drama?

I'm also genuinely curious as to what they expected. More drama, lots of kissing, tons of sex? I don't think any of those things would have made sense here. Their relationship hasn't quite reached the point where they're going to kiss, however assuming we get more of the festival maybe we'll get the famous fireworks kiss. In terms of drama we just had a lengthy arc packed full of drama, hurt, and cliff hangers. We need a break from drama and having cute+fun interactions between the main pair is necessary for contrast, otherwise things can and will become a slog of misery and suffering. So far I think we've gotten pretty solid character progress.

Also was the "yawn" really necessary? I'd be more interested in hearing you explain why you're unhappy with the way the series is progressing, in your opinion what kind of progress would you prefer to see? Even if I were to disagree with your opinion I could at least respect your ability to present your views in a way that's properly explained.

last edited at Mar 2, 2018 12:09PM

Yuri Queen posted:

After all that we are back to this? yawn

What didja expect? more drama?

How about something more significant than going right back to status quo after 15 chapters of crying. What was the point? Their break up and reconciliation has done little to progress the relationship.

Even if I were to disagree with your opinion I could at least respect your ability to present your views in a way that's properly explained.

I'm avoiding that since from various threads I have been reading the mod here has made it a habit to threaten to ban people who defend their opinion if it doesn't match the majority's.

last edited at Mar 2, 2018 9:23PM

Yuri Queen posted:

Yuri Queen posted:

After all that we are back to this? yawn

What didja expect? more drama?

How about something more significant than going right back to status quo after 15 chapters of crying. What was the point? Their break up and reconciliation has done little to progress the relationship.

Well is just one chapter, let's enjoy the festival ... Because no doubt something will happen when it's over, even the ending of the manga itself lol

Even if I were to disagree with your opinion I could at least respect your ability to present your views in a way that's properly explained.

I'm avoiding that since from various threads I have been reading the mod here has made it a habit to threaten to ban people who defend their opinion if it doesn't match the majority's.

Oh, grow up.

Yuri Queen posted:

After all that we are back to this? yawn

What didja expect? more drama?

How about something more significant than going right back to status quo after 15 chapters of crying. What was the point? Their break up and reconciliation has done little to progress the relationship.

Even if I were to disagree with your opinion I could at least respect your ability to present your views in a way that's properly explained.

I'm avoiding that since from various threads I have been reading the mod here has made it a habit to threaten to ban people who defend their opinion if it doesn't match the majority's.

You're really starting to come across as an immature troll. So I know I'm probably getting baited into giving a response, but here goes. Their break up has done little to progress their relationship you say? I'd strongly disagree. Yuzumori was able to completely open up and tell Mimika how she felt, which was the entirety of chapter 29 and 30. For example https://dynasty-scans.com/system/releases/000/019/928/011.png that page where Yuzumori tells Mimika that she never got to say how she felt, because Mimika ran away from her. This is in my opinion a key moment of the series where both characters realize that if they need to actually talk about out their issues with each other.

On the note of going back to the "status quo" as you say, I think that's normal in my personal experiences with human interaction in general. I've had huge fights with some of the people most dear to me, then we talk about our problems and discuss how we feel, then the following day things are pretty much back to normal. Our relationship progressed because we both learned how to handle each other's emotions and how to talk things out a bit better, which the next time we get into a fight the experience helps us resolve things more quickly and smoothly.

Ultimately in order to show how much the characters have progressed in this story we need more time and chapters, the author needs to show us that the characters now know that it's best to talk things out. However in the meantime we need some healthy fun between the characters, so now that everyone has expressed their feelings and wiped off their tears it's time for some fun at the festival!

last edited at Mar 3, 2018 12:03AM

@Nez You're really not helping your case at all.

@FluffyCow I'm just not going to respond when the first thing you call me is a troll just because I have a differing opinion than you. It's childish. You can scrape whatever ooze you want from the corner of the pages and call it "progress" but yet here we are back to status quo with nothing to show that the 15 chapters of drama was worth it.

last edited at Mar 3, 2018 4:43PM

Do you people even enjoy things anymore?

This has never been a fast-paced story; anyone expecting it to suddenly become so is bound to be disappointed.

Blastaar posted:

This has never been a fast-paced story; anyone expecting it to suddenly become so is bound to be disappointed.

The only way I see this going faster is with a time skip... Either that or having the nsfw tag, ruining all her efforts so far