Didn't expect that ending! I'm all in for this now, I want to see these two happy in the end!

1. Self-interest seems less culpable if you don't know the people you're hurting. Experiments show that our social circle is roughly capped to 150 people. Beyond that, we cannot care.

Lol, nah. You can absolutely not know someone at all and still care what happens to them. It's called bloody Empathy. Or, if not that, at least Sympathy. I'm not a trans man and cannot understand why someone would want to be a man, but I can still care enough about the rights of trans man to ensure they get the care and support they need to flourish. Or, you know, I'm not a fan of kids, but I still bloody care about kids I don't know getting the help/support/etc they need to live a better life than me.

Legal euthanasia is an outstandingly poor solution to mental health or anything. It's what happens when the 'problem solvers' in charge don't have any capacity for empathy nor the ability to be even slightly sympathetic to the plight of others. It fixes nothing that caused the problem in the first place. It's pure-strain greed through and through.

And I say that as the type of person that has been suicidal for years and years and would also hate to be revived after a suicide attempt.

Anyway, story seems interesting. Will stick with it at least for now.

last edited at Nov 17, 2023 11:07AM

Huh. Does 'hiraeth' mean something in Japanese, or is the author really using Welsh, of all languages, for their title?

Kinda neat if it's the latter, ngl.

There are many things in your comment to address.

1. Mental health may not help that much in itself. It is the hope that it helps, that helps.

2. Every system is underfunded and overwhelmed. Let's take that as the baseline.

3. Or, if everything is underfunded and overwhelmed, we can argue that nothing is underfunded and overwhelmed. There must be some other issue at play here.

4. In our vast interconnected society, we are dealing with hundreds of people a day who we do not know, do not care about and will never see again. It seems that in this type of society, preserving life needs a legal process - and killing people needs a legal process too. It's all very bizarre and interesting to me.

5. Of course, legal systems are a means of control so that the net harms inflicted upon us by other humans' self-interest can seem more predictable to us.

6. Self-interest seems less culpable if you don't know the people you're hurting. Experiments show that our social circle is roughly capped to 150 people. Beyond that, we cannot care.

7. So why would it be a slippery slope, if the world was dark in the first place?

Ok so I think for the sake of ease I'll attempt to respond to each point unless they can be roughly covered by the same answer.

• 1 To be clear I am talking about strictly mental health based assisted suicide, I feel like it shouldn't need to be said that a person who is terminally ill and in agony can't choose to die with some dignity.

• 2/3 We don't really disagree here, I pointed out that regrettably we do live in a world where 99% of people are not getting quality mental health care.

• 4/5 No disagreement.

• 6 I kind of think you're indirectly supporting my point about bean counters. They don't care about individuals, this is policy and economics. The hotbed of this debate is Canada and the average Canadian costs their government quite a lot of money, assisted suicide is a financial positive for officials who manage the governments money on a provincial and federal level.

• 7 Things can always get darker, sometimes the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I understand that mental health, even of very high quality cannot "cure" most mental disorders. I was very lucky in that my first experience with treating my mental health was with an older lady who was vastly overqualified for the job she had, I'm from the USA so I was getting "free" mental healthcare (Read: overburdened and underpaid). I was diagnosed over a 2 year period with a panic disorder and clinical depression. The reason I am saying this is because since that person quit and I was transferred to someone "new" it cast into stark relief the different quality of mental health care you can and can't get. I started out suicidal when I went to that therapist, not going to tell my life story but I know that the quality care I was lucky enough to receive probably saved my life.

What in the...I wanna see what happens next then! Gave me Russian Doll vibe for a second.

This is so trash, I hate it when things try to be edgy while having no depth.

You can absolutely not know someone at all and still care what happens to them

I feel similarly to you, but am wary of calling my feelings 'empathy' when I don’t even know the person on the receiving end. Then it's hard to say if I truly have their best interests at heart. But maybe the intention matters more than the result, because none of us truly ‘know’ another, no matter how close they are or how well we think we know them…in which case you’d be right.

not going to tell my life story but I know that the quality care I was lucky enough to receive probably saved my life.

I'm happy to hear you had such good care and that you want others to have the same.

Welp, gotta try another way

Is it me or there's a lot of double suicide going on? Also: Supernatural tag?

Lovers' suicides have been a common theme in Japanese media for centuries.

In Class S literature, the predecessor of the Yuri genre, female-female couples were historically fated for a tragic end, mostly (but not only) due to censorship. Typically, the more romantic the relationship, the harsher the ending. These stories were both informed by and affecting the culture at the time. During the 1910s-20s in Japan, there were high profile cases of double suicide by female-female couples that ended up sensationalized by newspapers (especially because, to oversimplify, lovers' suicides were considered the exclusive realm of male-female couples).

This podcast episode covered this topic, and is also a great intro to the origins of Class S: A Husband is Unnecessary: Yoshiya Nobuko & Japanese Girls' Culture - History is Gay #46

Huh. Does 'hiraeth' mean something in Japanese, or is the author really using Welsh, of all languages, for their title?

Kinda neat if it's the latter, ngl.

According to Wiktionary, and listed sources, hiraeth can mean:

• nostalgia, homesickness

• a deep longing or yearning for something or someone (including the departed)

• a deep regret

Together with the Japanese part 「散り損ないの」(based on my beginner Japanese and Jisho) maybe the title means something like "a Hiraeth that is failing to scatter", or "the Hiraeth of failing to scatter"?

散る (chiru) is specifically associated with the falling and scattering of petals or leaves, which could be connected to the theme of death in this manga, especially death by falling from a high place. With that in mind, the title could refer to a feeling of Hiraeth that doesn't go away, or the specific type of Hiraeth caused by not being able to die. Though it's possible the title's meaning is supposed to be a mistery for now.

I welcome notes or corrections from someone who knows what they're doing (Cunningham's Law I'm counting on you)

last edited at Nov 18, 2023 1:21PM

I welcome notes or corrections from someone who knows what they're doing (Cunningham's Law I'm counting on you)

I didn't translate the title because of the several underlying meanings that would have been lost in translation and also the grammar is weird and probably made up. So after mulling over it for a while, I gave up.

損なう can also mean something about a missed chance to do something. So, maybe, both characters mourn their failure to "scatter" (splat).

散る is also a metaphor for dying a noble death.

Hiraeth being a feeling of nostalgia for a place you can never return to (or even ever went to), so the whole title evokes a complicated feeling.

last edited at Nov 18, 2023 3:36PM

The majority of suicide survivors have said that the second they stepped off the ledge they regretted it. Let's hope these two can turn over a new leaf. Maybe pick their lives up together.

I didn't translate the title because of the several underlying meanings that would have been lost in translation and also the grammar is weird and probably made up. So after mulling over it for a while, I gave up.

損なう can also mean something about a missed chance to do something. So, maybe, both characters mourn their failure to "scatter" (splat).

散る is also a metaphor for dying a noble death.

Hiraeth being a feeling of nostalgia for a place you can never return to (or even ever went to), so the whole title evokes a complicated feeling.

Thank you for your notes! Yeah, I can see how the meaning of a noble death could be relevant (due to suicide historically being seen as "honorable" in some situations). I quite like the messiness of this title.

I ended up looking for other words with the same suffix, and found 死に損ない / 死に損なう (shinizokonai / shinisokonau). These meanings (e.g. a failed suicide, or survival by narrow chance) feel relevant here. Still, I don't want to flatten the possible meanings too much; the "scattering" might have a deeper meaning beyond the "splat".

last edited at Nov 18, 2023 10:22PM

That was really good what the heck???

The title of this manga caught my eye due to it using the same Welsh concept in the title as this one:
https://mangadex.org/manga/dbb977c7-c4c2-4c53-b01a-accb76b62e9a/hiraeth-wa-tabiji-no-hate
I wouldn't be surprised if it's a direct line of inspiration, given they're both about suicidal lesbians meeting a tall dark handsome stranger who is also seeking death, although in the case of Kamatani Yuhki's manga instead of a love interest it's an adult mentor. Kamatani's manga also has less of an edgy dark feel to it by comparison, despite the subject matter, there's a beauty to it's mournful emotions, compared to the stark misery this manga is portraying so far.

The title of this manga caught my eye due to it using the same Welsh concept in the title as this one:
https://mangadex.org/manga/dbb977c7-c4c2-4c53-b01a-accb76b62e9a/hiraeth-wa-tabiji-no-hate
I wouldn't be surprised if it's a direct line of inspiration, given they're both about suicidal lesbians meeting a tall dark handsome stranger who is also seeking death, although in the case of Kamatani Yuhki's manga instead of a love interest it's an adult mentor. Kamatani's manga also has less of an edgy dark feel to it by comparison, despite the subject matter, there's a beauty to it's mournful emotions, compared to the stark misery this manga is portraying so far.

I have followed up on your recommendation and binge-read the whole thing in an evening. Now I have a lot of complicated feelings about that manga that I don't know where to discuss, since the MD forum is a ghost town. :-(

"Not alternate realities -- time travel!" --The JLU Question

last edited at Dec 22, 2023 11:59AM

I'm happy I found this because it looks like it's going to be depressing as hell and I need that right now

If you read first chapter, and this story really piqued your interest, I feel positive, if we're talking about Time Travel after all, that this tag would spoil anyone binge-reading this for the first time. Personally speaking, Time Travel was the last place my mind went after the first chapter.

Oh yeah, this is it. We love a suicidal timeloop that's all about growing as a person, and learning to say no to your manipulative crush.

Now we still have to find out why Kinka wants to die that badly.

last edited at Dec 22, 2023 2:12PM

I can think of someone who needs to jump off a building. (Otome. It's Otome.)

UFFS, this second way is uglier, is very desperated

The title of this manga caught my eye due to it using the same Welsh concept in the title as this one:
https://mangadex.org/manga/dbb977c7-c4c2-4c53-b01a-accb76b62e9a/hiraeth-wa-tabiji-no-hate
I wouldn't be surprised if it's a direct line of inspiration, given they're both about suicidal lesbians meeting a tall dark handsome stranger who is also seeking death, although in the case of Kamatani Yuhki's manga instead of a love interest it's an adult mentor. Kamatani's manga also has less of an edgy dark feel to it by comparison, despite the subject matter, there's a beauty to it's mournful emotions, compared to the stark misery this manga is portraying so far.

I have followed up on your recommendation and binge-read the whole thing in an evening. Now I have a lot of complicated feelings about that manga that I don't know where to discuss, since the MD forum is a ghost town. :-(

I decided to binge it too and it's absolutely a wonderful read. I'm surprised it's not on Dynasty, considering the author's other work Shimanami Tasogare is.

The title of this manga caught my eye due to it using the same Welsh concept in the title as this one:
https://mangadex.org/manga/dbb977c7-c4c2-4c53-b01a-accb76b62e9a/hiraeth-wa-tabiji-no-hate
I wouldn't be surprised if it's a direct line of inspiration, given they're both about suicidal lesbians meeting a tall dark handsome stranger who is also seeking death, although in the case of Kamatani Yuhki's manga instead of a love interest it's an adult mentor. Kamatani's manga also has less of an edgy dark feel to it by comparison, despite the subject matter, there's a beauty to it's mournful emotions, compared to the stark misery this manga is portraying so far.

Sorry for derailing the thread some more, but thank you for sharing that manga, I enjoyed reading it.

last edited at Dec 22, 2023 11:05PM

The title of this manga caught my eye due to it using the same Welsh concept in the title as this one:
https://mangadex.org/manga/dbb977c7-c4c2-4c53-b01a-accb76b62e9a/hiraeth-wa-tabiji-no-hate
I wouldn't be surprised if it's a direct line of inspiration, given they're both about suicidal lesbians meeting a tall dark handsome stranger who is also seeking death, although in the case of Kamatani Yuhki's manga instead of a love interest it's an adult mentor. Kamatani's manga also has less of an edgy dark feel to it by comparison, despite the subject matter, there's a beauty to it's mournful emotions, compared to the stark misery this manga is portraying so far.

I have followed up on your recommendation and binge-read the whole thing in an evening. Now I have a lot of complicated feelings about that manga that I don't know where to discuss, since the MD forum is a ghost town. :-(

I decided to binge it too and it's absolutely a wonderful read. I'm surprised it's not on Dynasty, considering the author's other work Shimanami Tasogare is.

Most items on Dynasty are from specific scanlators. I don't think you can just do an upload request as some random person for a random scanlator's work; that would make Dynasty no better than an aggregator.

damn, now we need to wait a month for the next chapter!