I find it funny that the answer to what commoners contribute is taxes and not ALL THE WORK!

I find it funny that the answer to what commoners contribute is taxes and not ALL THE WORK!

Work isn't what is respected by the aristocracy. Money is.

I find it funny that the answer to what commoners contribute is taxes and not ALL THE WORK!

Work isn't what is respected by the aristocracy. Money is.

It’s actually very realistic for them to forget that the commoners are responsible for all the work being done.

Also it’s a funny timing for this story to be coming back around now, at a moment of increasing real-world class consciousness.

Is... are we supposed to relate to and like the aristocracy in this situation? They're all going "no, the commoners are wrong", even the ones shown to be clearheaded good people

Cause I don't. At all.

Viva la revolution, fuckers.

I was thinking we who read the novels are all spoiled, but honestly, it's as predictable as ... an otome game. We don't read it for the plot, we read it for Rei and Claire.

Is... are we supposed to relate to and like the aristocracy in this situation? They're all going "no, the commoners are wrong", even the ones shown to be clearheaded good people

Cause I don't. At all.

Viva la revolution, fuckers.

I mean Claire is a bonafide villainess, she wouldn't be a very effective antagonist if she wasn't a bit of an asshole

Don’t worry, having read the novels I can confirm that we are not supposed to agree with the nobility.

Is... are we supposed to relate to and like the aristocracy in this situation? They're all going "no, the commoners are wrong", even the ones shown to be clearheaded good people

Cause I don't. At all.

Viva la revolution, fuckers.

I mean Claire is a bonafide villainess, she wouldn't be a very effective antagonist if she wasn't a bit of an asshole

Oh yea no, Claire is the one I fully understand. She's 1) a villain, and 2) quite obviously brainwashed and unable to even comprehend a world other than the one she's in, like how she couldn't even comprehend the idea of educating the commoners.

All the others I understand less, though honestly the 2nd point could easily apply to all them, too.

Though yeah, it's supposed to be an Otome game, so good politics isn't something I'd expect lol

People have a tendency to defend their interests and privilege, whether aristocrats defending the Ancien Regime or US homeowners defending single family zoning or rich nation citizens defending their global wealth and immigration restrictions. It's easy to see the flaws in a system when they're not feeding you.

Don’t worry, having read the novels I can confirm that we are not supposed to agree with the nobility.

And having read the novels, I could add there's more complexity than first appears. But Claire's complexity is already growing. She's already a really crappy villainess. Curse you, Rei Taylor!

I never comment but I am here to defend the politics of this series. While it might seem dumb to us nowadays as it's obvious to us that the people are the ones keeping the monarch in power and that the monarch/aristocrats should've known to atleast placate the commoners.

It was actually the norm/common sense of the past that the commoners are essentially property of the ruling class (Serfdom etc) due to a myriad of justifications (birth right / divine rule, etc). So the fact that many of the aristocrats in this story just CAN'T FATHOM that maybe commoners should have a say in governance is completely realistic.

Here's is a famous instance of this case, King Charles I of England, Scotland and Ireland tried for Tyranny, Treason and Murder by the English High Court of Justice. The whole defense of King Charles I was essentially boiled down to: "What lawful authority has brought me here (to be tried)". And King Charles was 100% right, the law is derived from the King, and the king is the nation. So there is no legal way to charge the king for a crime, especially not the commoners. Even if you believe that King Charles is an evil bastard, there is still no legal way for him to be charged with any crimes.
https://youtu.be/EDJwRUrK5ew
https://youtu.be/OPDpj59kkgk

Do some extrapolation from the political climate of 15th century England and it would be completely logical for the aristocrats to think the way they do.

And also taxes in a pre-modern society isn't just cash, it also included grains, artisan goods, etc so it is quite a catchall term.

last edited at Jan 1, 2022 3:59AM

Is... are we supposed to relate to and like the aristocracy in this situation? They're all going "no, the commoners are wrong", even the ones shown to be clearheaded good people

Cause I don't. At all.

Viva la revolution, fuckers.

I mean Claire is a bonafide villainess, she wouldn't be a very effective antagonist if she wasn't a bit of an asshole

Oh yea no, Claire is the one I fully understand. She's 1) a villain, and 2) quite obviously brainwashed and unable to even comprehend a world other than the one she's in, like how she couldn't even comprehend the idea of educating the commoners.

All the others I understand less, though honestly the 2nd point could easily apply to all them, too.

Though yeah, it's supposed to be an Otome game, so good politics isn't something I'd expect lol

Well, the argument (at least the one I would make) is pretty simple:

• Only the educated are fit to govern. (Assumed).
• So, self-governance only works when the people are educated.
• The educated are overwhelmingly composed of aristocrats.
• Due to the composition of the educated, governance should/will be directed primarily by aristocrats.
• Also, since commoners are not educated, self-governance would not work.

The crux of the argument against self-governance actually hinges on the ability of the commoners to become educated, since if commoners can become educated, then self-governance can work. Are there schools for commoners? How good are these schools? Do commoners have the financial flexibility to send their children to school? Do commoners trust the school system? What level of education do their children receive?

Since there are, apparently, plenty of child beggars on the streets, along with an active war stretching the nation thin, I'd say it's unlikely the country will reach the education levels needed to sustain peaceful (emphasis on peaceful) self-governance without serious progressive reforms and at least two decades of processing commoners through a publicly available school system.

In so many words, there is a good chance the guillotine is coming out unless things change, one way or another.

Is... are we supposed to relate to and like the aristocracy in this situation? They're all going "no, the commoners are wrong", even the ones shown to be clearheaded good people

Cause I don't. At all.

Viva la revolution, fuckers.

No, we aren't. It's gonna take a while for the story to get to the actual revolution, but even now there is a lot of shit happening behind the scenes that completely changes the context of what some of the characters do and say this chapter.

Example Claire's father is actually involved with the Commoner's Movement

Crazy to think 16 chapters in and we’re still in light novel one. I appreciate the work of the translators though, it’s rough waiting for full volume releases in English when I just wanna see shit I’ve already read with cute art lol

Honestly, I was surprised that some of the nobles even acknowledged that the common class both contributes taxes and that they could be educated. Seems like a pretty tame picture of aristocracy compared to real life; I would've assumed more of them to have Claire's attitude.
Also, I was missing the argument of "commoners are genetically unable/unfit to handle money/power", which at least was increasingly prevalent in the 1700s/1800s afaik (and regurgitated through eugenics), though I'm not sure to what degree it was before. This argument also completely invalidates the point that you could educate commoners, which is why it was so effective, I suppose.

Anyhow, I'm here for the ReixClaire ship ofc, not politics. Suspecting that she'll start warming up to the idea of equal rights and stuff eventually.

last edited at Jan 1, 2022 5:16AM

I am surpsied when asked what do commoners do the guy taxes instead of the all important FOOD. I love to see these aristocrates try farming and how much actual backbreaking work it takes. I find Rei in this situation hilarious because everyones probably looking at her waiting for her opinion here and as we saw here it's lady clair or bust.

Un bon noble est un noble mort

The commoners have the number.

When their situation get desperate enough, they have nothing to lose.

Xyeed posted:

I am surpsied when asked what do commoners do the guy taxes instead of the all important FOOD. I love to see these aristocrates try farming and how much actual backbreaking work it takes.

In a medieval setting, taxes would include more than money. Much of the taxes farmers pay are part of their yearly harvest, for example.

Imagine a world, where people think commoners cant be educated but women can! In fact, from our history, education for women came a loooot later than anything discussed about commoners. Even noble women were said to be incapable of learning things of the mind, so they had to restrict themselves to being "womanly". The whole argument is indeed like someone said before, whether or not a certain group of society possess the ability to learn. And besides, who do you even fault for NOT wanting to give up priviliges. I mean, if they dont think about what commoners contribute, they wont ever accept sacrifice.

Heres something to think about: The commoners of our time are the exploited workers in third world countries. Would you elevate their rights at your cost? They certainly contribute to much of what we have.

Imagine a world, where people think commoners cant be educated but women can!

We all know this is mainly because of the Otome game setting (can't really market a game to women were they don't have any rights), but even beyond that it would be interesting to explore if the presence of magic might contribute to a more gender equal society. If you think about it, the root of male dominance in society really comes down to physical power, the capability to wage war and therefore amass power, which is then distributed amongst male allies.

In a magical setting like this, particularly were magic doesn't seem to be tied to physicality, women would have hardly any disadvantage in the exertion of force, a magically talented woman will always be able to take down even the strongest non-magical man. This could, theoretically, make it so that women have much more direct access to power and that even men in power would need to rely on (and therefore placate) powerful women. Accordingly, over time this magical society might shift towards becoming more gender-equal, as the continued presence of (many) powerful women would require attitudes and institutions to slowly adapt.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

In so many words, there is a good chance the guillotine is coming out unless things change, one way or another.

Yeah, can hardly blame Claire for defending her position when heads like hers would be the the first ones to roll otherwise.

I am surpsied when asked what do commoners do the guy taxes instead of the all important FOOD.

Is this a feudal sistem? If so some commoners would be paying the taxes with what they harvest anyway, so is not mutually exclusive.

last edited at Jan 1, 2022 7:28AM

Honestly, I was surprised that some of the nobles even acknowledged that the common class both contributes taxes and that they could be educated. Seems like a pretty tame picture of aristocracy compared to real life; I would've assumed more of them to have Claire's attitude.

Oh, there have been a few nobles who sided with the French Revolution (see: Marquis de Lafayette, Count of Mirabeau), so it's not as unlikely as you think. Also, while the Christian churches generally supported incumbent monarchies, a lot of rank-and-file priests sided with the commoners or the working class (see: Claude Fauchet, Georgy Gapon).

The commoners have the number.

When their situation get desperate enough, they have nothing to lose.

You forgot to add "...but their chains". ;-)

I just love that Rei doesn't care, I precisely read romance to escape IRL politics, so I hope she just keeps ignoring it.

Just remember - choosing to ignore politics is in itself a political choice.
You cannot escape.

That said, this particular set is a little cliche, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's easy to relate to, even if we have an idea of where it's going to go in the story even without spoilers.