As for the rest, I'm going to echo Blastaar's words here, expanded to include all these various tangents we're off on at the moment. Discussion and debate are welcome, but off-topic derailments ought to be kept...in a different topic, preferably. If your discussions aren't directly relevant to the manga at hand, they likely need not exist in the manga's thread.

That means Blastaar & Nene can't talk anymore about Wild West novels? darn, and here I was hoping to learn more about those devilish Comanche hoss thieves......
just kiddin' :p

Knock yourself out.

https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/topics/10103-dynasty-cafe-a-home-for-off-topic-discussion-where-everyone-s-welcome

I said JUST KIDDING geez
Sum people have no sense of joke

I kind of want all their relationships to get into a glorious train wreck

My original complaint was that yuri manga has a tendency to not want anyone to speak out loud about the gay part of a gay relationship, even within the own characters' heads.

It came to my mind for this manga not because it's especially bad in this regard, but because it apparently has a main character driven by normative pressure to marry, but who is attracted to women (or at least is attracted to one now)... and there's no textual acknowledgement on her part of the non-normativeness of that! It's like, the pressure to have a normal life is her driving psychological force, but meanwhile she has a "love is love; sometimes gender doesn't matter!" orientation toward gayness at the same time, and it's baffling.

It might sound weird to you but that's exactly how I feel about my own shit and its primarily why I read yuri and not western lesbian fiction. I don't want yuri to resemble the latter, it's foreign to me and I don't really like reading it usually, so people pushing for yuri to be more like that is pretty off-putting.

For me, it's like that oneshot that was posted a while back, Rainbow. Not taken to that extreme of a level where I see myself asking my partner when we're 80 "HM ARE WE GAY," but I understood the sentiment being preached by the author. I teach and I have kids that ask me "When did you find out your were gay?" and I always tell them I never really just woke up one day and found out, I just happened to fall in love with someone and they happened to be the same sex.

If you define your relationship on the basis of your identity first and partner second that's fine and all, but some people (like me) prefer to define it by our partner first and identity second.

last edited at Jun 20, 2019 11:12PM

Unlike other cheating manga in which the author depicts a roller coaster of emotions. I feel this approach is rather quite adult and what can I say, boring at first while slowing the heck down of this. I don't want it to be prolonged more than necessary and hope we have more development next chapter. I just feel like Pikachu meme entire time reading this chapter. Like it was trying to reach some conclusion but make me puzzled as a spectator. Maybe that is the author intention, to show the nuance of emotions (or maybe a rather fortunate mistake while trying to figuring out the plot)

last edited at Jun 20, 2019 11:36PM

Pleaseeee let this have a yuri happy endiiiiiiing

I liked the part where she ate the steak

"Did I make her mad?"

Well, there was this cheating slut I dated before who dumped me. Sluts who cheat, just like you, are never loyal. (paraphrased of course)

Um, OUCH? I think that'd make just about anyone angry...

Both are the same age, it'll turn out they were in the same school, I called it!

And yes, a happy yuri ending is best-o! The polygamy ending is pretty far fetched, even if popular with the men :ppp

"And I'm gonna be 36 next month. I'm so goddamn tired."

I relate to that far too well. Just hit 40, tired of the world--but tired of being single too. Not a great combination to juggle. I don't usually like the stories with cheating for Reasons but I identify with her. (Since the bulk of most yuri seems to be focused on younger folks, it's a nice change of pace for me.)

My original complaint was that yuri manga has a tendency to not want anyone to speak out loud about the gay part of a gay relationship, even within the own characters' heads.

For me, it's like that oneshot that was posted a while back, Rainbow. Not taken to that extreme of a level where I see myself asking my partner when we're 80 "HM ARE WE GAY," but I understood the sentiment being preached by the author. I teach and I have kids that ask me "When did you find out your were gay?" and I always tell them I never really just woke up one day and found out, I just happened to fall in love with someone and they happened to be the same sex.

If you define your relationship on the basis of your identity first and partner second that's fine and all, but some people (like me) prefer to define it by our partner first and identity second.

Fine, but you live in a context where "gay" exists and is weird. This is of course not to say that you don't get to insist people respect your ways of wanting to be identified (e.g. they are dicks if they call you gay and you don't think of yourself as gay) but simultaneously everything you know of sexuality came from somewhere, and the heteronormative culture you live in provides context regardless of how you identify (specifically: all else held equal, it's harder to just happen to fall in love with another sex than with the same sex... not having an explicitly not-straight identity is a recipe for almost everyone being in straight relationships, because that's where society's inertia pushes us all).

The thing that needs to be addressed is, your description of your own sexuality appears aware of complexities... even if I don't understand how you can disregard things you're choosing to disregard, I sense you've CONSIDERED them before deciding they're not for you. That's similar to what I'm pleased to see that I'm wrong about regarding this manga. They're acknowledging the world. Akari is saying "It's my lot in life to be on the periphery (both because I'm a lesbian and because I'm an unmarried middle aged woman), so I'll do what you want. But you should really just go back to your husband, because that's easier."

Thing is, lots of yuri manga has undefined characters in part because a lot of the audience thinks it's gauche and rude when a woman says something like that out loud about herself. The purity is the point. And I'm never gonna get behind that... good to see this author isn't doing it.

Thing is, lots of yuri manga has undefined characters in part because a lot of the audience thinks it's gauche and rude when a woman says something like that out loud about herself. The purity is the point. And I'm never gonna get behind that... good to see this author isn't doing it.

That isn't really why I don't like it. It's just more romantic to me if you love someone and because of that you are gay, rather than being gay and because of that you love someone.

To put it another way, I don't want to read about, or think about myself as someone who would stop loving my partner if they got a sex change, or magically woke up as the opposite gender, all else held equal. In fact, It's actually one of the biggest annoyances I have with protagonists of otokonoko/trap manga even if I like that type of character a lot too, but the non-crossdressing protagonists usually have this whole "nooo but he's a guy" tripe that just goes on and on until the end of the manga even if they like everything about the other person; sometimes most of the time the entire conflict of the manga is predicated on this and nothing else - Prunus Girl being one example, and I don't even dislike that one. Yeah there's the typical "but we're GIRLS" line in yuri manga but usually that gets solved quickly and then it goes into other drama so it's more endearing than anything like that. So it's not really a woman or a man thing for me, it's obnoxious either way.

That isn't to say people who define themselves by their identity that way don't exist nor am I saying they're necessarily bad people or anything, but I don't really want to read about them.

last edited at Jun 21, 2019 1:15AM

That isn't to say people who define themselves by their identity that way don't exist nor am I saying they're necessarily bad people or anything, but I don't really want to read about them.

Fair! Hope you didn't think I was trying to say you should have to.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :((((((((((((((((((((((((((

it's been a while since I've read anything that didn't try to sugarcoat relationships especially when cheating was involved. it's both refreshing and kind of all around sucks because i find myself remembering conversations similar to the ones in these chapters (especially ch. 3).

I feel so bad for the younger girl, even though did the do with the wife. Its shown that she's accidentally drawn to these people and have always ended up doing the do with married women. She actively has methods to avoid these women but still got stuck being attracted to the wife.

Younger girl? Oh? You caught my attention there.

Y'see, all this time, I was of the impression that Akari was the older one.

We can only guess, of course, as, even though we know Ayano is 35, we are never told Akari's exact age. But my guess was that they were very close in age, with Akari being slightly older.

My reasons? Well, mostly little details, like in chapter 2, page 13 - Akari: "I thought I'd found some sweet, innocent girl and seduced her." So Akari seemingly thought Ayano was the naive younger one in the couple?

In point of fact, she does act most of the time like she's way more experienced, and talks like she has a long history of broken romances behind her.

What makes you think Akari is younger? The difference in jobs?

damn you were right

Maybe for once the male won't be the villain here.
...Yeah, right. Instead of playing solitaire he was probably texting a lady friend of his own, so in the end everything will wrap up nicely without anyone feeling too guilty.

last edited at Jun 21, 2019 6:52AM

Akaris one burnt child. She gives advice about not being honest, because it would hurt the husband (but wouldn't it hurt even more if he found out? and Akari is also hurting the whole time) and obviously it has never worked out for her. But she still believes it's better that way :(((
Now I'm am hooked nonetheless. I hope the author deals exactly with this issue and not (what was my previous fear) with a passionate forbidden love that goes to hell in the end. There's already too many love triangles like that. And they usually are one big mess.

Thing is, lots of yuri manga has undefined characters in part because a lot of the audience thinks it's gauche and rude when a woman says something like that out loud about herself. The purity is the point. And I'm never gonna get behind that... good to see this author isn't doing it.

That isn't really why I don't like it. It's just more romantic to me if you love someone and because of that you are gay, rather than being gay and because of that you love someone.

I agree. I'm also a romantic like that. Nicely said.

last edited at Jun 21, 2019 4:03AM

It's going pretty much as I expected of this combination of author and subject. Unless we're already at the halfway point for the story she's going to have to stir something up. Fuck everything + road trip to Hokkaido?

the husband here is also at fault. when you're not showing enough love for your partner and take them as granted that's what gonna happen. I'm not saying that the wife is not at fault but she's clearly seeking affection which her husband is not giving.

last edited at Jun 21, 2019 10:21AM

Oh look, the cheating cheaters are back to cheat some more. Joy.

Interesting. Not sure I like this or not actually.

Shimura Takako knows how to write adults. Because even adults don't have all the answers.

Akari is a wounded beast that can't help but still cling to hope, but at the same time is pessimistic and can't help but voice her insecurities all the time. She runs ahead, closing her eyes, even if she knows that she will be hurt, again.

Ayano is lost, because a side of her she had hidden deeply came to the surface. She realizes herself that she actually wanted this kind of tryst to happen. The cat is out of the bag and now it won't go back in. It's not like she hates her husband, or is an abused woman and why would she want to hurt him? But on the other hand, Akari stirred something deep in her that she can't ignore anymore.

In short, these two women are lost and searching for an answer. But maybe there isn't one and it will all crash and burn.

It's only a question will she have a strength to give up from what she has, starting new life completely, or she will just "play a little bit" (exactly what black-haired woman is afraid of).
If she feels dead in marriage (because sometimes marriage is just a grave for both parts if it's based on lies), than she should choose life (if she feels alive with a woman, she should not behave like a vampire who returns to grave after breathing some light and oxygen-it's not enough to truly be alive)

Clearly, both women are exhausted, living in own sorts of patterns.
Will they have the strength to break the vicious cycles for new beginning? (It also opens possibility to black haired woman for meeting someone out of her pattern)
Curious to see how complicated situation truly is, for all of them.
So, restraining to judge before knowing more about them (is cheating someone else with other person real cheating if someone lives in denial? )
Will they have enough reasons to be together, or not, depends of author. Let's see how this very realistic story goes...

last edited at Jun 21, 2019 6:37PM

Wow, I am very impressed with this manga so far. The mangaka is very skillful in establishing the mood and developing the thoughts of both main characters to make the adultery more complex and life-like.

Wow, I am very impressed with this manga so far. The mangaka is very skillful in establishing the mood and developing the thoughts of both main characters to make the adultery more complex and life-like.

So much this^ the subtlety is absolutely crazy, it's been a while since I've been able to connect with characters this closely -regardless of level of relatableness-. Absolutely a joy to read.

last edited at Jun 24, 2019 8:53PM

Maybe for once the male won't be the villain here.
...Yeah, right. Instead of playing solitaire he was probably texting a lady friend of his own, so in the end everything will wrap up nicely without anyone feeling too guilty.

Shimura Takako is not afraid of making the audience feel uncomfortable (check out Wagamama Chie-chan if you haven't already. That's some fucked up shit). I'd be surprised if her husband is cheating on her. And even if he is, it's not going to be presented as somehow justifying Ayano's own betrayal.

But regardless of how it's done, some people just see what they want to see:

the husband here is also at fault. when you're not showing enough love for your partner and take them as granted that's what gonna happen. I'm not saying that the wife is not at fault but she's clearly seeking affection which her husband is not giving.

Is there any indication that the husband is distant or fails to show affection? No. None whatsoever. We haven't seen much yet, but to me their relationships looks fairly normal, or even close. But apparently you can just tell. If someone cheats on you, it's always because of your own personal failings. If you'd loved them the way you're supposed to, then they wouldn't have betrayed you.