I would like to see some more substantive character development for Yamada. She’s in college, she’s moved away from home, she’s found her way around Tokyo a bit, so she should be showing at least a few more signs of actually maturing (as opposed to aspiring to mature but not actually doing much of it.)

Gotta agree on everything else, but would counter on that one.
As we see the story from Yamada's POV and tainted by her own insecurites and self-doubts, we have to read between the panels (and there's quite a lot; really, go back and pretend-reread the manga 'from Kase's POV", Takashima really makes an awesome job, there's everything already there, once you start looking for it!).
Yamada BEING in Tokyo is already a step forward for her. We know, she's not starved yet, so she clearly manages alone / without parental supervision. And she managed for the first time to make aquaintances with someone on her own (Hana), although we've yet to see how that develops...
Baby steps, but she's getting there ^_-

Whoa! When did this comment section became a warzone worse than the one at Citrus???

Whoa! When did this comment section became a warzone worse than the one at Citrus???

When Kase went to the dark side and started being controlling and domineering to her girlfriend, who is only trying to spread her wings.

Or something.

What on earth is wrong with these girls at the mixer? "Oh, hey, it's a woman with huge breasts who's dressed like Agent Scully. CLEARLY that means it's a man!"

I'm with you on that one. Kase-san was wearing a skirt for pete's sake. It's like saying these girls are so desperate for a guy they'll throw themselves at anyone who's remotely masculine.

Not sure, what you're getting at. The girls were taken in by Kase's handsome face :P

A million eyerolls. I mean, you're right. But the author is incorrect that this is remotely plausible. If you want Kase to look like a guy, then DRAW HER BUTCHED UP. They just want they cute chick with huge boobs, and they want the supposedly hilarious scene where people mistake her for a dude, both at once.

1) Let's not forget, we're talking about Japan, in public no less. It's a far too complex topic to get into detail here, but half-blind Hana assuming Kase's gender being male for being close with Yamada at a mixer, is simply her judging by default.

Well, yeah. This is not really set in stone, though? Fewer and fewer people in Japan are baffled by this sort of thing as time goes on, and giving Yamada a worldly friend would be good for the plot. Just someone to go, "Oh for chrissake, Yamada, this isn't a big deal."

The worst part is, we're not even supposed to be at all sad that Yamada's making this friend but apparently has to keep her relationship a secret.

But I'd argue, that it's not Yamada not knowing what sex is (by now), but having had sex didn't suddenly cure her from being shy, self-conscious, insecure and overthinking. It's her remaining in-character. IMO there is a learning curve, however.

Looks like a learning mesa, to me. She's not coming across as shy; she's coming across as an idiot who can't learn anything and can't survive for five seconds on her own. The ingenue trope is not rare, but Yamada stands out. She acts, literally, like an eleven year-old.

And... this is a bit hard to put into words, but I sometimes get the vibe from a yuri work that the author kinda totally endorses Japan's weirdness about gayness (this is not to say other cultures aren't weird about it too). It seems like this one is actually a fan of Yamada's insufferable "Oh my goodness gracious I could never have.... sex! Oh me oh my!" attitude. Like we aren't supposed to question it or think it's bad for her. (Or, we're supposed to get off on seeing Kase penetrating that innocence, pun not intended, which is creepy for its own reasons.)

No matter what, it's obvious that this author just really wants their cutesy Kase-cuddles, but at the same time, they want some kind of drama and conflict. And that just isn't working. The different reader interpretations to this chapter are mostly to blame on this.

I do think it's important for the Kase-defenders to understand that most people aren't necessarily against her showing up. They're against the story being written in such a way where she HAS TO show up.

Whoa! When did this comment section became a warzone worse than the one at Citrus???

I never understand when people complain about other people discussing manga in a manga discussion thread.

Whoa! When did this comment section became a warzone worse than the one at Citrus???

I never understand when people complain about other people discussing manga in a manga discussion thread.

A lively disscussion is way more fun than a bland one, where all everybody does is talk about how cute the story is. Plus I find I get more from the story, because I get to see it from different perspecitives.

last edited at Feb 23, 2019 12:36AM

Whoa! When did this comment section became a warzone worse than the one at Citrus???

I never understand when people complain about other people discussing manga in a manga discussion thread.

A lively disscussion is way more fun than a bland one, where all everybody does is talk about how cute the story is. Plus I find I get more from the story, because I get to see it from different perspecitives.

Word. Thought thrives on conflict, and the truth is born of argument (among friends).

last edited at Feb 23, 2019 3:33AM

Whoa! When did this comment section became a warzone worse than the one at Citrus???

I never understand when people complain about other people discussing manga in a manga discussion thread.

A lively disscussion is way more fun than a bland one, where all everybody does is talk about how cute the story is. Plus I find I get more from the story, because I get to see it from different perspecitives.

Word. Thought thrives on conflict, and the truth is born of argument (among friends).

I thought Midnighgunner was less complaining than just noting that this previously had not been a Dueling Lengthy Takes on the Characters thread (there’s been some but not—yet—much Citrus-level vituperation involved).

I think the reason is simple: this is the first arc where our two lovable dorks have come dangerously close to not being nice to each other; indeed, some have argued that the line has already been crossed.

Citrus was filled with not-OK behavior, ambiguous motivations, and unclear indications about future plot developments, so there was plenty to argue and speculate about. With this one previously the main question has been whether it was the most adorable thing in the world or the most adorable thing in the history of the universe. Answer: yes.

It's not like everybody suddenly hates Kase-san. I still fuckin' love it. I just think the writing has fumbled a bit recently. Some people don't feel that way, and that's fine. We're all adults here. We can have a friendly disagreement without the comments section being a "warzone". That's what forums are for.

I would like to see some more substantive character development for Yamada. She’s in college, she’s moved away from home, she’s found her way around Tokyo a bit, so she should be showing at least a few more signs of actually maturing (as opposed to aspiring to mature but not actually doing much of it.)

Gotta agree on everything else, but would counter on that one.
As we see the story from Yamada's POV and tainted by her own insecurites and self-doubts, we have to read between the panels (and there's quite a lot; really, go back and pretend-reread the manga 'from Kase's POV", Takashima really makes an awesome job, there's everything already there, once you start looking for it!).
Yamada BEING in Tokyo is already a step forward for her. We know, she's not starved yet, so she clearly manages alone / without parental supervision. And she managed for the first time to make aquaintances with someone on her own (Hana), although we've yet to see how that develops...
Baby steps, but she's getting there ^_-

That’s kind of my point—most of Yamada’s growing up (about public things, anyway) has been implicit. It would be nice to actually see her being a bit more composed when dealing with some of the normal stresses of human social interactions.

This is a young woman who has had sex with a (somewhat dorky) goddess, after all.

last edited at Feb 23, 2019 5:11AM

*looks at walls of text*

*looks at walls of text*

Lol, Yamada turned into a fairy from Humanity Has Declined. :)

Some folks are just naturally allergic to wordcount that are over 100. I've had people tell me to just "chill, it's just manga," "too long, who cares what you wrote" when I talk about specific points in manga. Really, as far as discussions go. This is very civil and worth talking over rather than "who cares it's just a trope thing/cultural thing/your-opinion-is-clearly-stupid thing."

Both made mistakes, both realized they made mistakes, and they both learned from this experience. Nobody's perfect. They just need to communicate better next time. I do understand being directly upfront about your needs and insecurities can be a really tough thing due to cultural things or just personality. So either directly voicing their concerns and fears may literally be scarier than fighting a Lv 90 dragon with a wooden stick. 2 years ago, I'm pretty sure I'll take duking it out with a fire breathing dinosaur over talking with my family over certain things.

tl;dr People don't understand certain things and/or do really stupid things when they are young.

They already made out in the prequel -> ch24

Even more, in the volume release, that chapter is about 10 pages longer and they have on-screen sex.

10 pages longer? I need this in my life

Both made mistakes, both realized they made mistakes, and they both learned from this experience.

Stop acting like their mistakes are equal.

There is a huge difference between Kase not updating Yamada on every thing she does in college when Yamada made it a point in high school to avoid over associating herself with Kase's club life and Yamada choosing to go to a mixer despite Kase being very up front about how that makes her feel.

Both made mistakes, both realized they made mistakes, and they both learned from this experience.

Stop acting like their mistakes are equal.

There is a huge difference between Kase not updating Yamada on every thing she does in college when Yamada made it a point in high school to avoid over associating herself with Kase's club life and Yamada choosing to go to a mixer despite Kase being very up front about how that makes her feel.

Yamada obviously didn’t know that there would be boys there with noses drawn like that. Lol

If relationships were civil lawsuits with findings of fault by a jury, yours might be a winning argument. But they both had reasons for not anticipating how the other one would feel about these things—Kase doesn’t get why the female roommate worries Yamada (on top of the unannounced weekend trip), and Yamada doesn’t understand that what she sees as helping out the first friend she’s ever made on her own sounds to Kase like two girls going out to hook up with boys.

So maybe (although not certainly) Yamada might be assessed slightly higher damages for her mistake as compared to Kase’s, they aren’t actually in a court of law.

Both made mistakes, both realized they made mistakes, and they both learned from this experience.

Stop acting like their mistakes are equal.

There is a huge difference between Kase not updating Yamada on every thing she does in college when Yamada made it a point in high school to avoid over associating herself with Kase's club life and Yamada choosing to go to a mixer despite Kase being very up front about how that makes her feel.

Y'all act like Yamada went to pick up dudes and not to support her friend who didn't want to go alone. Like nothing in this situation is a betrayal of Kase and the fact that she feels jealous about it is understandable but not reasonable. Kase being concerned for Yamada's safety is a reasonable response due to her (kind of absurd at this point) naivete but being mad at Yamada for simply being in the presence of men she has no interest in because she wanted to look out for her friend is just unfair. Like, if you don't trust your partner to be faithful to you and they've given you no reason to mistrust them then it means you need to work on your insecurities it doesn't mean they need to stop doing perfectly harmless things that trigger those insecurities.

I don't recall seeing anyone here acting as if Yamada went to pick up dudes. If anything, it's that dudes may try to pick up Yamada. These kinds of mixers have an issue in which unwanted sexual advances are a problem and i wouldn't be surprised if that is what the author was getting at, as fluffy as this manga is.

last edited at Feb 24, 2019 9:40PM

Larger discussion aside, can we bring back the roommate some more? Kase and Yamada fluffy relationship is always nice, but I'd love it if they could mix it up a bit and add a third person's viewpoint to the mix.

So hyped. I laughed because in the English version they have full blown sex on screen. Kase says "Yui I love you." And then here in the bathroom scene made me laugh because I interpeted her "Here?" As a Oh my god she wants to do it here? Since Kase again says Yui I love you.

I get why Kase is so anxious. Her first love, first kiss, first asking anyone out is Yamada. In one of the volumes she admits that she is always scared some boy or another girl is gonna come by and sweep Yamada off her feet. She is insecure because Yamada to her is so bright and lovely even if Yamada doesnt know it.

Mmmmm cant wait for more fuzzies or mild drama these two have.

And then here in the bathroom scene made me laugh because I interpeted her "Here?" As a Oh my god she wants to do it here?

Pretty sure that's exactly what it implied. Kase's just way too horny for her own good.

pretty sure yui ask kase for advice about the mixer. yui really didnt want to go. and kase obviously dont want her to go too but to change or make yourself uncomfortable to make friends isn't the right way to do so. kase basically helped yui get out of something she was really uncomfortable with. and she finally got to say tomoka. lol kase is so sexually frustrated.

Kase doesn’t get why the female roommate worries Yamada (on top of the unannounced weekend trip)

Reader's shouldn't either seeing as how Yamada should have gotten over her jealousy crap when she finally learned to get over the Inoue-senpai misunderstanding.

Yamada doesn’t understand that what she sees as helping out the first friend she’s ever made on her own sounds to Kase like two girls going out to hook up with boys.

She would have if she didn't hang up the phone.

Y'all act like Yamada went to pick up dudes and not to support her friend who didn't want to go alone. Like nothing in this situation is a betrayal of Kase and the fact that she feels jealous about it is understandable but not reasonable. Kase being concerned for Yamada's safety is a reasonable response due to her (kind of absurd at this point) naivete but being mad at Yamada for simply being in the presence of men she has no interest in because she wanted to look out for her friend is just unfair. Like, if you don't trust your partner to be faithful to you and they've given you no reason to mistrust them then it means you need to work on your insecurities it doesn't mean they need to stop doing perfectly harmless things that trigger those insecurities.

Y'all act like Yamada was not very adamant about how it was all about her making a friend and the only reason she didn't suggest doing something different was about not being close enough, it had nothing to do with her wanting to support her new friend. It is 100% a betrayal of Kase, especially when Kase herself is very open to how the whole situation makes her feel. And what does Yamada do? She hangs up on her because she refuses to listen to Kase's worries. When Yamada acts like that then it is absolutely reasonable for Kase to respond the way she did. There is nothing harmless about Yamada going to a college drinking party meant to hook people up. Yamada can't even beat the peer pressure from her new friend and suggest going somewhere else to hang out, you really expect Yamada to resist the peer pressure of conforming to social norms and not drink and "have fun" at the mixer?

last edited at Feb 25, 2019 10:41AM

Earlier I said that "moral judgments are a dime a dozen," but they must be on sale even cheaper than that.

What? You think Yamada had the slightest clue about what that place and the people in it would be like? She wanted to do something with Hana, her new (but unknown to Yamada) equally clueless friend.

She may not have known what kind of party it was, but she knew that Kase didn’t approve. When Kase says “I don’t want you to go” and Yamada says “too bad I’m going” and hangs up on her, I get the feeling that it isn’t about Hana anymore. Wether the party was dangerous or not, all Yamada knew was that Kase didn’t approve, and wanted to prove her wrong.

Again, forgetting that she is awful in social situations.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/yamada_to_kase_san_ch04#27

THIS ^ gives us all the information we need to know that Yamada knew EXACTLY what she was going to: A MIXER! She read the ad for it where it said it was: "A party for those looking for love" and looked dispirited and thought "A mixer,,,?"

So, yeah... Yamada knew she was going to an event for singles to hook up with other singles. So I really don't understand everyone who is saying that Yamada didn't do anything wrong. To top it off, when Kase said she didn't want her to go, Yamada heard her roommate in the background complaining about Kase wearing her clothes and she got jealous of her and ended up hanging up on her girlfriend. That was the last communication they had before the event.

So, given that she hung up on her girlfriend and then went to a singles event, why WOULDN'T Kase be insecure? It doesn't MATTER how long they've been dating. Kase thought she'd been dumped. She says so right in the manga. She went there to win her back.

They both made mistakes. Kase shouldn't have demanded that Yamada not go, but she should have told her that it was an event for singles and, "Hey, Yui... you know that's a thing for single people and you're not single, right? We're dating... so you're not available to date other people... or... am I wrong?"

Kase also hasn't been communicating well, but it's pretty clear that she's barely functioning at college as well. She's doing fine on the track, but she's not organized and her roommate is getting fed up with her and who knows how her classes are going!

As for Kase's performance AT the club, I have no complaints. At that point, her girlfriend was attending a singles event and guys were obviously hitting on her and asking her for her contact info and they were also going to be drinking alcohol despite being underage and, as she said, she's been to places like that with her club before and she's seen how people act when they're drunk. She knows she can handle herself, but it doesn't even take being Yamada's girlfriend to be worried for her in that situation. If Mikawacchi was there she would have been just as concerned and, in the end, Hana wasn't happy about it either, though just on general principles and not because she was concerned about Yamada. Yamada has always been portrayed as someone who has SEVERE social anxiety issues and can't really speak up for herself. When Kase entered at the end of the last chapter, Yamada was at a loss, having been separated from Hana because of the "friends can't sit next to each other (unless they're guys who are regulars)" rule, [which makes the event look pretty predatory in a major way because they intentionally separate the girls from anyone they might have come with to watch their back to make sure nobody tries to slip something into their drink, etc... while allowing the guys who know each other to group together, which would allow them to distract the girl while they do it.] The only person she seems to be able to speak her mind to is Kase, but even then she has trouble or she wouldn't have had the misunderstanding about the roommate.

I'm not a huge fan of the wording of some of the conversations with the "even though you're mine" and "do you really want friends that badly" things, but I get where Kase is coming from. Would it change it that much if she said "Even though you're my girlfriend, I'm afraid you might drift away from me. You're like a butterfly." or "I know you want to make friends, but do you really have to force yourself to come to places like this? I've known you for a long time now and I know this type of situation makes you uncomfortable." It might have been better worded, but it really wouldn't be "Kase" because she doesn't word things well, except for occasionally, when she is smooth enough to melt Yamada into a pool of jelly. (Which she can really just do by saying "Yui, I love you!" and Yamada can do just by saying "Tomoka-chan")

All in all, it was a good arc, because they learned a lot about communication. Hopefully they'll both get better. (I do wonder if Yamada will tell Hana about her relationship for real now or not... and I'm a little bit surprised that Kase hasn't totally flipped about the fact that Hana-chan and Yui-chan use those names with each other, since she only calls her Yui in intimate moments and Yamada still has trouble calling her by her Tomoka at all.)