SomethingOrOther posted:

The difference between facts and opinion is that, no matter what your opinion is, a fact is still a fact.

Assuming what you said is a fact.

My personal opinion is that Touma is obviously attractive and cool looking. I hope she realizes she's emotionally hurting these girls before it's too late.

LOL—that’s the textbook definition of “charismatic.” And I’ll say it again—the question is not whether readers find Touma charismatic, the characters in the story obviously do.

Now I am quite sure the reason we even argue is because our definition of "charisma" is just different. For me, charisma involves paying careful attention to how you interact with other people, a criteria I feel that Touma-kun hasn't really fulfilled. The impression she gives me is more of a genuine person (or a person super good at masking her true intention) who just acts whatever way she wants and barely pays attention to the consequences of her actions.

Of course, I never say my opinion was right and I never say that the characters in the story didn't think of Touma-kun as charismatic either... So you stick with your opinion, and I stick with mine, okay?

^I think we disagree because you think that the definitions of words are matters of opinion. So you stick with your opinion and I’ll stick with the definition.

charisma
/kəˈrɪzmə/
noun
1.
a special personal quality or power of an individual making him capable of influencing or inspiring large numbers of people
2.
a quality inherent in a thing which inspires great enthusiasm and devotion

Okay, this is as far as my suspension of disbelief goes.

Touma-kun doesn't have any redeeming quality that'd make her attractive or charismatic.

I dont care what the characters of the story think, because that's not how you analyse a work. Of course the characters are going to believe this narrative the author cooked up. But us? We have no reason to believe Touma-kun is in any way charismatic or has some quality that makes girls stick to her like flies. To top it off, she's dumb and an airhead, she doesn't seem to have been built for this story. Rather, it feels like the author wanted to make a female harem story, and decided to make of the protagonist an air headed woman that's too oblivious or dense to notice anybody else's feelings, so that she doesn't really have to deal with any sort of conflict or anything interesting. Hell, she feels almost inhuman or alien-like.

Manga is a visual medium, so those things above wouldn't be too bad if Touma-kun was at least framed in a way that made sense. I mean, c'mon, shoujo manga has spent decades honing the art of making a character look charming just using a screentone. But there's so little effort put into this manga, that Touma-kun is not even portrayed in an appealing way.

To give an example, it's like if you had a Death Note kinda story, and instead of having Light do smart stuff, you got to hear people tell you that Light is "really really smart, you guys". It'd feel like a cheap trick, and you wouldn't really believe that he was smart after a while, just that the author wanted to make a smart character and failed due to their lack of talent.

Tbh I tend to like the "woman playboy" trope. It's a nice "power fantasy" of sorts, but it usually works because the woman in question has some sort of outstanding quality or embodies some sort of "irresistible" trope, making their seductive aspects believable . Here, the author has given me no reason to believe in their premise. (And even if people like Touma-kun may exist in real life, it doesn't work for a story. The idea that a person can be seductive just because she exists is pretty weak, and it doesn't really match up with the way people generally think about partner selection, attraction or sex. It's like a story whose sole gist is that bad people get great luck in life, it doesn't go with people's narratives and ideas about how the world works, as wrong as they might be)

The only possible twist that could make me like this story going forward is one in which Touma-kun to be revealed to be an alien or supernatural being of sorts that is trying to mate with as many women as possible for reasons.

last edited at May 21, 2018 3:16AM

The only possible twist that could make me like this story going forward is one in which Touma-kun to be revealed to be an alien or supernatural being of sorts that is trying to mate with as many women as possible for reasons.

Isn't that the whole premise of Blue Drop? Damn, I need to get around to watching that eventually... but, at any rate, I would love the series even more if that twist suddenly happened. I like it as it is now, as ridiculous as it is, but that would make it even better in my eyes.

Touma's appeal makes sense to me. She's always honest, she's curious and interested in everything and everyone (because she has the memory of a fruit fly so everything is new to her), and she sets her whole mind to everything she does (because it's not big enough to divide it up). Someone who's good-looking, passionate, and interested in you is going to be attractive to a lot of people. The idea that she could seduce literally everyone in the school including the staff is still silly, of course, but that's manga for you.

Okay, this is as far as my suspension of disbelief goes.

Touma-kun doesn't have any redeeming quality that'd make her attractive or charismatic.

I dont care what the characters of the story think, because that's not how you analyse a work. Of course the characters are going to believe this narrative the author cooked up. But us? We have no reason to believe Touma-kun is in any way charismatic or has some quality that makes girls stick to her like flies. To top it off, she's dumb and an airhead, she doesn't seem to have been built for this story. Rather, it feels like the author wanted to make a female harem story, and decided to make of the protagonist an air headed woman that's too oblivious or dense to notice anybody else's feelings, so that she doesn't really have to deal with any sort of conflict or anything interesting. Hell, she feels almost inhuman or alien-like.

Manga is a visual medium, so those things above wouldn't be too bad if Touma-kun was at least framed in a way that made sense. I mean, c'mon, shoujo manga has spent decades honing the art of making a character look charming just using a screentone. But there's so little effort put into this manga, that Touma-kun is not even portrayed in an appealing way.

To give an example, it's like if you had a Death Note kinda story, and instead of having Light do smart stuff, you got to hear people tell you that Light is "really really smart, you guys". It'd feel like a cheap trick, and you wouldn't really believe that he was smart after a while, just that the author wanted to make a smart character and failed due to their lack of talent.

Tbh I tend to like the "woman playboy" trope. It's a nice "power fantasy" of sorts, but it usually works because the woman in question has some sort of outstanding quality or embodies some sort of "irresistible" trope, making their seductive aspects believable . Here, the author has given me no reason to believe in their premise. (And even if people like Touma-kun may exist in real life, it doesn't work for a story. The idea that a person can be seductive just because she exists is pretty weak, and it doesn't really match up with the way people generally think about partner selection, attraction or sex. It's like a story whose sole gist is that bad people get great luck in life, it doesn't go with people's narratives and ideas about how the world works, as wrong as they might be)

The only possible twist that could make me like this story going forward is one in which Touma-kun to be revealed to be an alien or supernatural being of sorts that is trying to mate with as many women as possible for reasons.

Omg yes, glad I am not the only one who is unhappy with how the author portrays Touma-kun. Honestly, even Yurika in Yurika's Campus Life is more charismatic than Touma and she's not even supposed to be a "player" type of character lmao

Okay, this is as far as my suspension of disbelief goes.

Touma-kun doesn't have any redeeming quality that'd make her attractive or charismatic.

I dont care what the characters of the story think, because that's not how you analyse a work. Of course the characters are going to believe this narrative the author cooked up. But us? We have no reason to believe Touma-kun is in any way charismatic or has some quality that makes girls stick to her like flies. To top it off, she's dumb and an airhead, she doesn't seem to have been built for this story. Rather, it feels like the author wanted to make a female harem story, and decided to make of the protagonist an air headed woman that's too oblivious or dense to notice anybody else's feelings, so that she doesn't really have to deal with any sort of conflict or anything interesting. Hell, she feels almost inhuman or alien-like.

Manga is a visual medium, so those things above wouldn't be too bad if Touma-kun was at least framed in a way that made sense. I mean, c'mon, shoujo manga has spent decades honing the art of making a character look charming just using a screentone. But there's so little effort put into this manga, that Touma-kun is not even portrayed in an appealing way.

To give an example, it's like if you had a Death Note kinda story, and instead of having Light do smart stuff, you got to hear people tell you that Light is "really really smart, you guys". It'd feel like a cheap trick, and you wouldn't really believe that he was smart after a while, just that the author wanted to make a smart character and failed due to their lack of talent.

Tbh I tend to like the "woman playboy" trope. It's a nice "power fantasy" of sorts, but it usually works because the woman in question has some sort of outstanding quality or embodies some sort of "irresistible" trope, making their seductive aspects believable . Here, the author has given me no reason to believe in their premise. (And even if people like Touma-kun may exist in real life, it doesn't work for a story. The idea that a person can be seductive just because she exists is pretty weak, and it doesn't really match up with the way people generally think about partner selection, attraction or sex. It's like a story whose sole gist is that bad people get great luck in life, it doesn't go with people's narratives and ideas about how the world works, as wrong as they might be)

The only possible twist that could make me like this story going forward is one in which Touma-kun to be revealed to be an alien or supernatural being of sorts that is trying to mate with as many women as possible for reasons.

Gotta agree with you here. I kept going because it was Shuninta, but honestly this manga is just... boring for me. And I will read basically anything with the tomboy tag on it. Touma-kun just isn't interesting, and reading about a bunch of girls who fall for her and then never get what they want is kind of... I mean, what is supposed to be the appeal of this story? The fact that Touma is genuine and confident is cute, but her lack of regard for anybody's feelings just messes that up. Being an airhead and trying to understand people but sometimes getting it wrong can be endearing, but being an airhead and just not even trying is boring. This isn't romantic, or funny, or cute, and it's not particularly deep or even angsty. Like Touma-kun herself, this manga just feels like it's made of air.
I really hope the twist you suggested happens though, that would honestly be perfect.

Whoever put the Communism tag on this, thank you, you have made my day. On a side note, my nose is full of soda now.

I came for the communism, but there was no communism to be found. ='(

OMG that tag LOL

I like these stories - it may be just the way I'm reading it, but Touma-kun seems to be the "hook" that hangs the stories together and they aren't really about her ... to me the stories are more about all the other girls, of how they find something new/different about themselves (or others) or how they change (or refuse to change in the case of the nurse).

I came for the communism, but there was no communism to be found. ='(

Yet again the decadent bourgeoise have let us down. TYPICAL.

I like these stories - it may be just the way I'm reading it, but Touma-kun seems to be the "hook" that hangs the stories together and they aren't really about her ... to me the stories are more about all the other girls, of how they find something new/different about themselves (or others) or how they change (or refuse to change in the case of the nurse).

Pretty much. Touma's essentially a walking talking plot device who acts as a catalyst for the focus character du jour.

last edited at Jun 7, 2018 1:31PM

I like this story. I just wish, I didn't have the feeling that, these girls are just playing love games at an all girl school.

Yeah like others have said she never really seems to be charismatic and is just pretty, and in a way where I can see girls throwing themselves at her but for all the grown women that admitted they also fell for her is just beyond my suspension of disbelief.

Like others have mentioned Yukari from that gay for pay manga is much more charismatic and makes sense for girls to throw themselves at her even if sometimes it's by accident. There's a reason, with Touma her existing is enough for whatever reason.

last edited at Jun 24, 2018 1:11PM

Lol, stop sparkling so much. Classic.
I've taken this as an episodic series, loosely attached with the thread of Touma-kun being the obvious constant. However, if this latest chapter (5) were to keep going as is, I'd love it so hard. How can my Touma-kun (as in the manga in general) possibly be this cute? HOW? D:

I could be wrong, but I feel actual story progression brewing?

This chapter was underwhelming compared to the others.

I keep reading these series in hopes "the one" girl will show up. XD there has to be one whom Touma cant win against

I really think Tsubaki is way cooler than Touma, and i liked Tsubaki's hair the best before Touma cut it :<

After the cut I really felt like that was a yaoi manga

I'd kinda like to see an edit of this manga that removes Touma entirely, in a Garfield-without-Garfield sorta way. So that everyone's always talking about this mysterious Touma-kun, and when they talk to her, it's as if she's just offscreen, and they're being helplessly seduced by her dialogue that's deliberately left blank. I wonder if that would actually be an improvement? Just completely elevate Touma to the level of myth, so that we don't get distracted by how uninteresting and unseductive the actual Touma is. She's already such a blank character that it probably wouldn't make a difference if we saw her or not. So why not just leave it up to the imagination?

I'd kinda like to see an edit of this manga that removes Touma entirely, in a Garfield-without-Garfield sorta way. So that everyone's always talking about this mysterious Touma-kun, and when they talk to her, it's as if she's just offscreen, and they're being helplessly seduced by her dialogue that's deliberately left blank. I wonder if that would actually be an improvement? Just completely elevate Touma to the level of myth, so that we don't get distracted by how uninteresting and unseductive the actual Touma is. She's already such a blank character that it probably wouldn't make a difference if we saw her or not. So why not just leave it up to the imagination?

Gonna be honest I'd probably like that more than what we have now just because of one day seeing her would give me a reason to stick around.

last edited at Jun 24, 2018 6:20PM

I wonder if she will meet someone of her own match?

Is this Shuninta's way of presenting an actual shitpost? Even the art is wonky, so it has to be a joke, right? R-Right??