Forum › Touma-kun discussion

C2731dea4191b182ecd8f18498562a84
joined Sep 1, 2017

I'm not sure which of Takemiya Jin's works gave you that idea? I can't remember any of her stories that ended with a happy het marriage. I don't doubt you, I honestly don't remember.

I'm mainly thinking of Fragments of Love, chapter 1. Ends with a woman who harboured some regrets about her past, some doubts about her sexuality, finds out that she could be happy with a woman if she wanted to, but ultimately decides to marry and have kids, and is strongly implied to have earnestly found happiness that way. I'm also assuming that the woman wasn't exactly head-over-heels in love with her prospective husband at the time, if she was still concerned that she might not even be interested in men.

It's not quite the same situation as what we've been talking about, and a lot of the important details are largely up for interpretation, but the overall impression I get is that there's space in Takemiya Jin's work for characters to choose a traditional arranged marriage, and be perfectly happy and fulfilled by it. I contrast this with how marriage tends to be depicted by Amano Shuninta, i.e. a bland and unfulfilling burden that you put up with while finding socially unacceptable ways to make your life interesting.

To be clear, I'm not really talking about what the author's themselves believe about real life - I'm thinking specifically about the kind of attitudes I expect to find in their work. It's more about the kinds of stories they tend to write, their typical genre choices and narrative tendencies, than anything else. So I'm not saying that Amano Shuninta definitely thinks of marriage as a miserable trap for unhappy women, just that those are the only kinds of marriages she's interested in writing about. So when she depicts a woman sealing away her youthfulness to attend an omiai, I don't assume we're supposed to read that as a true and happy ending for her.

I just reread the chapter. It is a weird one. I'm not sure how to interpret it. I get the feeling, the character was straight, but her friend's confession confused her, so she needed to explore that option before she fully committed to her husband.

Img_0840
joined Jun 2, 2015

Is it me or she look like and even identical to “shane” from the “L” word!?… hmmm!!?

Hana3
joined Mar 22, 2018

I'm in the camp who thinks Shuninta just likes to make people squirm. I do think there's plenty of underlying (well, surface level, too) social commentary within her works, but ultimately, I think she wants people to feel slightly disgusted after reading her stuff. It works! As I continue to keep reading it.

Which I should also point out, that disgusted feeling often leads to thoughts, questioning, and discussion, so she's achieving her goal. Or a goal, anyway.

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

A5PECT posted:

So the nurse rejecting her experience with Touma and instead resigning herself to her arranged, heterosexual marriage can easily be interpreted as her giving up on her inner girl for the sake of her womanhood. I generally agree with the theme that one shouldn't have to completely give up their inner child in order to become an adult.

I don't think she rejects the experience. She obviously didn't dislike it. She just realized that it is not "her" to indulge in that kind of thing, like the other female teachers. Her character is a slap in the face for this yuri-loving community, but I think that's what the author aimed for. Her characters are never simple, but they give a feel of being realistic.

It's funny how realistic the nurse is, in contrast to the conceptual Touma.

And I agree that adults that act like acting childish is beneath them are the worst kind of adults, but there are times, places and occasions to do that. A school is exactly the kind of place you SHOULDN'T act childish when you're in a position of authority.

Bapa%20nada
joined Oct 20, 2017

I'm in the camp who thinks Shuninta just likes to make people squirm. I do think there's plenty of underlying (well, surface level, too) social commentary within her works, but ultimately, I think she wants people to feel slightly disgusted after reading her stuff. It works! As I continue to keep reading it.

Which I should also point out, that disgusted feeling often leads to thoughts, questioning, and discussion, so she's achieving her goal. Or a goal, anyway.

Touma-kun is like a Rorschach test for yuri fans.

W
joined Jun 5, 2015

Interesting. So first page from chapter 2 is actually missing.

So finally looked at the thing that Reejun mentioned and it is indeed a blatant mistranslation in this case.
"Maybe put your bangs down? They'll make you look a bit younger."
"It's fine."

last edited at May 1, 2018 6:49PM

joined Dec 21, 2016

Interesting. So first page from chapter 2 is actually missing.

So finally looked at the thing that Reejun mentioned and it is indeed a blatant mistranslation in this case.
"Maybe put your bangs down? They'll make you look a bit younger."
"It's fine."

Ok I screwed up twice. Thank you for pointing it out.
I'm gonna fix both pages tomorrow, meanwhile
https://imgur.com/a/49v512h

W
joined Jun 5, 2015

Yuricchin posted:

Ok I screwed up twice. Thank you for pointing it out.

Np. Happens. Though for noticing mistranslation credit should go to Reejun.

Sin%20t%c3%adtulo-min
joined Sep 28, 2011

Let's see who's poor heart gets played this time

A
joined May 24, 2013

You can't apply rules to a force of nature

C2731dea4191b182ecd8f18498562a84
joined Sep 1, 2017

Wow, Touma-kun is like training wheels, for love and sex, for these girls.

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Well, at the end of the day, I find Touma a little dull, with no special salient trait.

All the girls around her are more interesting.

joined Aug 28, 2016

Well, at the end of the day, I find Touma a little dull, with no special salient trait.

All the girls around her are more interesting.

Honestly, Touma's main personality trait (besides being cheerful and outgoing regardless of the circumstances) seems to be that she's a complete idiot: she consistently fails to know or understand pretty much anything, even things you'd really expect her to. It's just that everyone's too charmed by her to notice. It's why I haven't been as harsh on her as some folks in the comments; I don't think she's being manipulative, I think she just acts on instinct and genuinely doesn't understand human relationships well enough to realize what effect she has on people.

last edited at May 16, 2018 6:35PM

Yuki Kitsune
Snowfox
joined Jan 31, 2015

How have I not previously noticed this little gem? It feels like each chapter is about a totally different MC with Touma-kun as a secondary character connecting them all.

"If we had to resign for something like that, this room would have been empty a long time ago." -- And Touma-kun is so dense, she probably has no idea.

Hino-san
joined Sep 4, 2014

Well, at the end of the day, I find Touma a little dull, with no special salient trait.

All the girls around her are more interesting.

Honestly, Touma's main personality trait (besides being cheerful and outgoing regardless of the circumstances) seems to be that she's a complete idiot: she consistently fails to know or understand pretty much anything, even things you'd really expect her to. It's just that everyone's too charmed by her to notice. It's why I haven't been as harsh on her as some folks in the comments; I don't think she's being manipulative, I think she just acts on instinct and genuinely doesn't understand human relationships well enough to realize what effect she has on people.

THIS

Touma is not the point of this series. Touma's effect on the other girls is the point. I think it's very much the idea of the series that Touma is essentially blameless. Touma is basically sex itself - in fact, the near ideal of no attachment, no consequences, gentle, consensual sex. I think Amano Shuninta is playing with the effects of this on the characters, how it intersects with life and love. Touma represents different things to different people, but Touma is basically just Touma. Sex is just sex.

Sex and lust don't follow rules. Even consensual sex. It doesn't respect your person or status. What you desire doesn't respect what you intellectually think you SHOULD desire or how you think things should be. It's just there. And it completely disarms everyone, strips them bare.

I think Shuninta writes very well and just has a bad reputation here because a lot of people have hugely idealized visions of love and sex, and think it should follow rules that it just doesn't. But I like her characters, even the ones I don't "like".

Cnwdrjjvmail6tq
joined Jun 30, 2017

Touma-kun is like a super silly fashionable version of Amane (Prince of Spica) from Strawberry Panic haha.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Well, at the end of the day, I find Touma a little dull, with no special salient trait.

All the girls around her are more interesting.

Honestly, Touma's main personality trait (besides being cheerful and outgoing regardless of the circumstances) seems to be that she's a complete idiot: she consistently fails to know or understand pretty much anything, even things you'd really expect her to. It's just that everyone's too charmed by her to notice. It's why I haven't been as harsh on her as some folks in the comments; I don't think she's being manipulative, I think she just acts on instinct and genuinely doesn't understand human relationships well enough to realize what effect she has on people.

This, basically. Kind of silly how some of us, myself included, jumped to dissect this work way more than was truly needed, lol. It is also silly how much maliciousness a part of the audience read into Touma. The girl is dense as a brick, lmao, barely able to hold a normal conversation outside of flirting (and even her flirting looks like something she does without conscious effort).

5a335bf2131492a81e6c35c0a56add10
joined Nov 25, 2017

I'm just waiting until Touma finds "the one" and then gets dumped (or she probably has in the past)

joined Jul 26, 2016

Shuninta draws some brilliant reaction faces.

Tumblr_mpynm4dyml1qjj8e7o1_400
joined May 24, 2013

CUTE

Charon-sml
joined Feb 14, 2016

"Touma-kun meets the worst of the NYT Opinion Section"

Kinchan%20drawing%20maru%20%20dfhgsdhfsdhgsdf%20i%20lov%20e
joined Dec 21, 2015

About half this chapter was just pure Gay Panic, loved every panel of it. Shuninta does really draw some great silly reaction faces, page 9 especially made me crack up.

Images-1
joined Oct 5, 2013

Lmfao XD she slept with ALL the teachers XD lmao that is so hilarious XD

Images-1
joined Oct 5, 2013

God damn most of you take this silly ass manga WAY to seriously

SomethingOrOther
joined May 15, 2018

I hope Touma falls in love with someone and it never becomes requited, so she can get a taste of her own medicine. And truly, how could one get charmed by a person like her. She is basically an air-headed idiot with average looks.

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