Someone's gotten meaningful character development in my sexytimes emotional trainwreck!

I demand to see the manager!

Manager: is there a problem?

You’re all out of light D/S sexytimes, dammit! And I had a coupon!

PS: One thing I'm going to remark is this: it's fucking unbelievable how HOT the moms are! I knew already that Iwami Kiyoko could draw super sexy teenagers, but damn, those moms! It's to a point that I just don't care if they are good moms or bad moms, were I in the position of the child we would need Taiyaki to write the story of what I would do.

I lol'ed at the Taiyaki reference. :)
I agree that both moms are smoking hot and surely Siggy F had in mind moms like these ones when he posited Oedipus complex. Wow! You can almost forgive Fuuko's mom's bad attitude since she has that kinda looks.

I am quite amazed about how quick Yuni's mom has caught on. The translation in the panel of p.18 or 188 raw, plus my own understanding are
Yuni's mom: "Your girlfriend did" (Kanojiuka?) Girlfriend?
Yuni: "......"(......) ......
Yuni "Nah, someone else"(Uun Chiu) Wrong
Yuni's mom "What was that pause just now?"(Nani ima no ma) What was that pause?
Yuni "Huh? I didn't..."(Ha? Betsu ni) Huh? Nothing.
Yuni's mom "Eh? Two timing?"(Aijin) Lover?
Yuni "Phrasing!" (iikata) Way to say it.

Must be intuition or personal experience, using both words girlfriend and lover in a conversation with her daughter, assuming that she has both. However she does not seem to imply Yuni is two timing (does something wrong).

last edited at Feb 20, 2024 10:28AM

I am quite amazed about how quick Yuni's mom has caught on. The translation in the panel of p.18 or 188 raw, plus my own understanding are
Yuni's mom: "Your girlfriend did" (Kanojiuka?) Girlfriend?
Yuni: "......"(......) ......
Yuni "Nah, someone else"(Uun Chiu) Wrong
Yuni's mom "What was that pause just now?"(Nani ima no ma) What was that pause?
Yuni "Huh? I didn't..."(Ha? Betsu ni) Huh? Nothing.
Yuni's mom "Eh? Two timing?"(Aijin) Lover?
Yuni "Phrasing!" (iikata) Way to say it.

Must be intuition or personal experience, using both words girlfriend and lover in a conversation with her daughter, assuming that she has both. However she does not seem to imply Yuni is two timing (does something wrong).

You intuition is wrong and I'd appreciate it if you didn't invent your own stuff with your Google translate knowledge of Japanese and try to spread doubt or misinformation. You're not trying to translate manga I hope.

I was confused by your previous question about "lover", now I see why. You're using google translate or DeepL.

愛人 isn't a generic lover here. It's specifically in the meaning of mistress, or, if you want "the person I love sexually as opposed to the person I'm married to/in an official relationship with".

If she meant a "lover" it would be 恋人 (the one you love)

Here, I found a video that explains the difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL0gvr2LOWk

Or here, an actual Japanese answering the question: https://hinative.com/questions/13485754 : 浮気相手 "Adulterous lover".

So, YES, she implies two-timing. Or her reaction, with the sparkling eye, doesn't makes sense.

And "chigau" doesn't only mean wrong, it means "different", so here it's a "no, different" (ie, not my girlfriend, someone else).

Are you Masina?

-Mother's face looks very similar like face of Nanase!

It could be coincidence if there's not another similarity:
-Mother was always busy and Yuni waited for her to come home.

Sounds familiar?
I'm curious if someone noticed same things as me, or have any thoughts about what I said?

Don't see the facial similarity, but you're cooking with the similarity between Yuni's mom and Nanase.
Both are too busy to spend much time with Yuni, who is lonely while she waits for them.

I know I'm reading into this too much, but I saw parallels with the exchange about eating pancakes:
Yuni: "Here's your yakisoba(Nanase)"
Yuni's mom: "Tonight I want pancakes(Fuuko), not yakisoba(Nanase)!"
Yuni: "Ok you can have pancakes(Fuuko), just make sure you eat the yakisoba(Nanase) tomorrow."

That aside, Yuni's dead cat clearly represents Fuuko. The cat kept her from feeling lonely. She grew extremely attached to it and misses it now that it's gone.
Yuni wondering why the cat had to die despite trying so hard to live...
Yuni being unwilling to move on, choosing to endure the loneliness instead of getting a new pet...
Yuni was devastated about the cat dying but felt just as bad about how her reaction made her mom cry...
All are topics that could be dissected.

I'd always considered this more of a guilty pleasure "watching a car crash" type of read, but this chapter felt like it had a ton of depth.

This chapter felt very differently than the previous chapters. Probably cus it didn't focus on the cheating.

@HayaH I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis.

This guy would agree too.

I am quite amazed about how quick Yuni's mom has caught on. The translation in the panel of p.18 or 188 raw, plus my own understanding are
Yuni's mom: "Your girlfriend did" (Kanojiuka?) Girlfriend?
Yuni: "......"(......) ......
Yuni "Nah, someone else"(Uun Chiu) Wrong
Yuni's mom "What was that pause just now?"(Nani ima no ma) What was that pause?
Yuni "Huh? I didn't..."(Ha? Betsu ni) Huh? Nothing.
Yuni's mom "Eh? Two timing?"(Aijin) Lover?
Yuni "Phrasing!" (iikata) Way to say it.

愛人 isn't a generic lover here. It's specifically in the meaning of mistress, or, if you want "the person I love sexually as opposed to the person I'm married to/in an official relationship with".

If she meant a "lover" it would be 恋人 (the one you love)

Actually, my first impression is indeed "mistress", aijin is definitely physical. I did not use AI, nor know how to.

Yes, Aijin and Koibito have huge differences. The fact that her mom chooses aijin means she knows koibito is the same person as the "kanojou". Consider what sort of job she has, Yuni's mom definitely knows something is up even with that slight pause yuni gives out. I am sure lots of her customers have pauses when asked if they were married....

In any case, my own understanding from reading the raw ends up almost the same as your interpretation, that is important because to me scanlation is like psuedo-canon,in fact a lot of times it is better than official translation. So thank you for the hard work so that I know my understanding is correct as opposed to off the mark.

last edited at Feb 20, 2024 10:31PM

That was surprisingly the best chapter in the slowest pace this manga has ever been so far. Gave this story a hard time early on but you know what given the recent draught of good stories of this genre in recent times, this story is without a doubt one of top dogs of this genre.

On a devilish note: I hope the moms hook up with each other. Yuni's mother corrupting Fuuko's would be peak debauchery..

That was surprisingly the best chapter in the slowest pace this manga has ever been so far. Gave this story a hard time early on but you know what given the recent draught of good stories of this genre in recent times, this story is without a doubt one of top dogs of this genre.

On a devilish note: I hope the moms hook up with each other. Yuni's mother corrupting Fuuko's would be peak debauchery..

Oh God you just had the BEST idea. Let's all pray it comes true.

... Of course if it does, this manga will turn into Citrus. Oh no

Don't see the facial similarity, but you're cooking with the similarity between Yuni's mom and Nanase.
Both are too busy to spend much time with Yuni, who is lonely while she waits for them.

I know I'm reading into this too much, but I saw parallels with the exchange about eating pancakes

Another clear parallel (maybe foreshadow) is Yuni's mom telling her not to fall for someone that priotizes themselves (like Nanase), implying that's the reason why she's divorced.

Prediction time: Yuni is gonna bring home Fuuko and mom is gonna assume she's her girlfriend, while Nanase is the mistress.

So she just see the stupid baby and that's it? problems solved? no broken heart anymore ? talk about ridiculous.

Ooohh baby , who hurt you?

I honestly really enjoy discussions about translations! But I feel like it's so easy to step on people's toes. Everyone has their own interpretations of words, especially if we include the sometimes wide array of interpretations among native speakers...

恋人？愛人？How do you translate those!?

(As a side note, my friend has been getting on my case for using the word "lover" in English as a gender-neutral term. I wish we had a good word for 恋人 that didn't imply anything heavy, like "partner" often does)

I honestly really enjoy discussions about translations! But I feel like it's so easy to step on people's toes. Everyone has their own interpretations of words, especially if we include the sometimes wide array of interpretations among native speakers...

恋人？愛人？How do you translate those!?

(As a side note, my friend has been getting on my case for using the word "lover" in English as a gender-neutral term. I wish we had a good word for 恋人 that didn't imply anything heavy, like "partner" often does)

Wait is your friend saying "lover" is not gender neutral? I'm confused. If you're looking for a word like "partner" but less heavy then imo lover works pretty well, because it's got a connotation of two people in relatively new love who have not made any significant commitments yet, as those commitments would change the name of the relationship. They could be in something as light as a mutually acknowledged crush or explicitly short term interaction, like two people who met while traveling and will soon part ways. The relationship between two people where one of them is cheating is very frequently a "lovers" type relationship due to the preexisting commitment getting in the way of them being "official" with each other, as with Yuni and Fuuko.

last edited at Feb 22, 2024 1:54AM

rusi posted:

I honestly really enjoy discussions about translations! But I feel like it's so easy to step on people's toes. Everyone has their own interpretations of words, especially if we include the sometimes wide array of interpretations among native speakers...

恋人？愛人？How do you translate those!?

Translation depends widely on context. But it's clear that "koibito" doesn't imply anything relationship wise. It's just "the person you're in love with". "Aijin" implies you're cheating on your official partner.

How is that hard to understand?

I am quite amazed about how quick Yuni's mom has caught on. The translation in the panel of p.18 or 188 raw, plus my own understanding are
Yuni's mom: "Your girlfriend did" (Kanojiuka?) Girlfriend?
Yuni: "......"(......) ......
Yuni "Nah, someone else"(Uun Chiu) Wrong
Yuni's mom "What was that pause just now?"(Nani ima no ma) What was that pause?
Yuni "Huh? I didn't..."(Ha? Betsu ni) Huh? Nothing.
Yuni's mom "Eh? Two timing?"(Aijin) Lover?
Yuni "Phrasing!" (iikata) Way to say it.

Must be intuition or personal experience, using both words girlfriend and lover in a conversation with her daughter, assuming that she has both. However she does not seem to imply Yuni is two timing (does something wrong).

You intuition is wrong and I'd appreciate it if you didn't invent your own stuff with your Google translate knowledge of Japanese and try to spread doubt or misinformation. You're not trying to translate manga I hope.

I was confused by your previous question about "lover", now I see why. You're using google translate or DeepL.

愛人 isn't a generic lover here. It's specifically in the meaning of mistress, or, if you want "the person I love sexually as opposed to the person I'm married to/in an official relationship with".

If she meant a "lover" it would be 恋人 (the one you love)

Here, I found a video that explains the difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL0gvr2LOWk

Or here, an actual Japanese answering the question: https://hinative.com/questions/13485754 : 浮気相手 "Adulterous lover".

So, YES, she implies two-timing. Or her reaction, with the sparkling eye, doesn't makes sense.

And "chigau" doesn't only mean wrong, it means "different", so here it's a "no, different" (ie, not my girlfriend, someone else).

Are you Masina?

Why is it that translators always come across as total narcissists when talking to other people lol? You don't need to insult the other person's intelligence or accuse them of being some kind of fake news spreader.

you could just leave out all the narccy bull and still give all the same information.

inb4 bad attitudes and generated social apathy really lead to Ai generation

last edited at Feb 22, 2024 2:37AM

smirkingtyrant posted:

Why is it that translators always come across as total narcissists when talking to other people lol?

And why is it that some people who don't know the language and use google translate feel the need to "correct" someone who took the time to actually learn the language?

I'd be pissed off too.

You intuition is wrong and I'd appreciate it if you didn't invent your own stuff with your Google translate knowledge of Japanese and try to spread doubt or misinformation. You're not trying to translate manga I hope.

I was confused by your previous question about "lover", now I see why. You're using google translate or DeepL.

愛人 isn't a generic lover here. It's specifically in the meaning of mistress, or, if you want "the person I love sexually as opposed to the person I'm married to/in an official relationship with".

If she meant a "lover" it would be 恋人 (the one you love)

Here, I found a video that explains the difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL0gvr2LOWk

Or here, an actual Japanese answering the question: https://hinative.com/questions/13485754 : 浮気相手 "Adulterous lover".

So, YES, she implies two-timing. Or her reaction, with the sparkling eye, doesn't makes sense.

And "chigau" doesn't only mean wrong, it means "different", so here it's a "no, different" (ie, not my girlfriend, someone else).

Are you Masina?

Why is it that translators always come across as total narcissists when talking to other people lol? You don't need to insult the other person's intelligence or accuse them of being some kind of fake news spreader.

you could just leave out all the narccy bull and still give all the same information.

inb4 bad attitudes and generated social apathy really lead to Ai generation

Could the translator have been nicer? Sure. But some sass doesn't bother me much as long as they're willing to discuss translation.

My view is:
Translator politely discussing translation > Translator rudely correcting others>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Translator not saying anything at all in discussion of translation.

Getting it right is FAR more important than being nice about it.
At the same time, we are on a yuri forum. We're "comrades in arms" over our shared love of yuri and in an ideal world we would treat each other in a way that reflects this.

Back to the chapter...
The failure of Yuni and Nanase's relationship is inevitable. After all the drama we've previously had, I expect their breakup will be low key and maybe mutual.
We only see Yuni's thoughts as she continues to see all the ways they're not compatible, but I'd bet Nanase can feel it too.

The contrast between Yuni and Fuuko's home life could not be more stark.
Fuuko lives in an affluent home with a family that gives her no love or emotional support while Yuni lives in a modest apartment where her mother showers her in love and support.
Clearly Yuni missing her cat is referencing how she misses Fuuko.
I think Fuuko recognizing the baby being adorable is her breaking free of the toxic way she views love and the beginning of learning how to love someone in a healthy way.

Translation depends widely on context. But it's clear that "koibito" doesn't imply anything relationship wise. It's just "the person you're in love with". "Aijin" implies you're cheating on your official partner.

Mind you, koibito is the person you're in love with—but also the person who likes you too, and the person you are having sexytime with. It's not kataomoi if that person already is your koibito.

Hirose Narumi posted:

Translation depends widely on context. But it's clear that "koibito" doesn't imply anything relationship wise. It's just "the person you're in love with". "Aijin" implies you're cheating on your official partner.

Mind you, koibito is the person you're in love with—but also the person who likes you too, and the person you are having sexytime with. It's not kataomoi if that person already is your koibito.

Anyway, the author didn't use 恋人 here. She used 愛人 which means the mom picked up on the fact there was a third party involved which wasn't the girlfriend and said "we don't need men".

Anyway, here, we have 3 households completely different.

Yuni's is a single working mother, who was probably dumped by the father of Yuni.
Nanase's is a normal family, probably with no financial problems as they have two large dogs, hence probably a house with garden.
Fuuko's is a more "traditional" family, where women are looked down on and she's constantly compared to her brothers.

I think Fuuko should go live with Yuni. I'm sure her mom will welcome her with open arms.

Nanase is well adjusted, but at the same time, she doesn't seem curious at all about Yuni's circumstances. It's in line with her insensitivity toward Yuni's need.

And when the mother talks about "someone who loves themselves first", maybe it points to Nanase.

Nanase has sensitivity issues.
Yuni has abandonment issues.
Fuuko has self-confidence issues

last edited at Feb 22, 2024 3:08PM

Why is it that translators always come across as total narcissists when talking to other people lol? You don't need to insult the other person's intelligence or accuse them of being some kind of fake news spreader.

you could just leave out all the narccy bull and still give all the same information.

inb4 bad attitudes and generated social apathy really lead to Ai generation

You'd take having an absolutely garbage machine translation over a human translator who dares to have opinions and feelings? Lol that's so cringe

I think Fuuko should go live with Yuni. I'm sure her mom will welcome her with open arms.

I love the way you think. <3

Okay so we finally know why yuni acts the way she does. And to be fair she's got plenty of reasons to feel abandoned and lonely

wait why was this chapter kind of awesome

Because we have character development and now know why Yuni is selfish (single mom related isolation and people pleasing) while we understand why Fuuko is so desperate (holy fuck her family is k-drama awful), making both characters much better

I was not discrediting the translator's work, in fact, I was relieved that my own reading directly from the raw matches what the translator's understanding. I worked quite a few years in the translation software business, so off all people I should know the problem of machine translation. Even in English, a "lover" can be considered a mistress depending on the context, especially if the person is male.
I simply cannot see how Yuni X Nanase can continue further. Maybe Yuki can be a catalyst again to destroy that relationship so that we will have Yuni X Fuuko (My "ship") instead. I cannot wait for the next issue (May/March) and I wonder what Sensei will come out with. She is very good at resolving and writing the love triangle.