It’s an online forum if you want a private convo take it to dms

You're right, this is an online forum, and that means there are rules.
This is your only warning to stop being an asshole to others, especially over semantics.
If you do not like this work, then move on and let others who want to enjoy it do so.

Who is being an asshole? Not me. I responded as an ass to 2 people who were assholes to me/didn't agree with me in a rude way(see were not strawmanning, were ignoring cuz ur opinions are worthless - and you didnt warn them) But I can see that you don't like my opinion and so just want me to shut up. I am not "being rude to people about the semantics of yuri" I had an opinion on the quality of the yuri in the manga, and so wanted to warn other people. I very much enjoyed volume 1, read volume 2, started getting a bit weirded out by the sudden injection of new cast members and the push of the couple into the background, and then i took a break. Reread the whole series a few days ago, and came to inform others like me(who read yuri for yuri) that it isn't exactly yuri, but more sapphic tinged rock manga.

last edited at Apr 23, 2024 8:41AM

The term being corrupted by westerners does not destroy the original intent of shoujo ai . It’s basic research, you can just look at references, read actual articles, consume the manga and content tagged it, etc l. Idk why you guys are over complicating it and trying to tie loli in, it’s pretty dishonest and bad faith

You can go read Wikipedia and they'll literally tell you the exact same stuff lol. They've even got a bunch of citations and junk, but I'll let our resident brain genius look them up if you don't believe it lol
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/shoujo_ai

Someone didn’t read their own wiki page they sent, embarrassing

Do you know what slang means? Did you actually read the sources, the “citations”? What about other articles? Anyways I’ve no desire to continue a debate with a bad faith idiot

last edited at Apr 22, 2024 4:45PM

Anyways, gnight yall, beware new readers : is not yuri, and girls are barely in it after late vol 2

The term being corrupted by westerners does not destroy the original intent of shoujo ai . It’s basic research, you can just look at references, read actual articles, consume the manga and content tagged it, etc l. Idk why you guys are over complicating it and trying to tie loli in, it’s pretty dishonest and bad faith

I wasn't discussing anything with you. You're involving yourself in a conversation that wasn't about anything you said. I'll leave it at that. It doesn't feel like there's much to discuss with you anyway.

It’s an online forum if you want a private convo take it to dms

I may not have intelligence or mental faculties but at least I can actually enjoy this comic about gay alt rock girls. If mental faculties means you can't enjoy good art then forget em, I say.

Yeah good art, same face syndrome harsh lines and green everywhere, it’s such good art , especially when the girls like barely interact in chaps. So gay and Amazin

I may not have intelligence or mental faculties but at least I can actually enjoy this comic about gay alt rock girls. If mental faculties means you can't enjoy good art then forget em, I say.

This manga is barely gay

That’s the point

The idea that yuri is inherently sexual or erotic is a thing Western comics fans made up like 15 years ago, it's not a thing in Japanese. There's been a handful of different authors who say they dislike the label but not because it's sexual but because it's a specific genre with conventions and fans with annoying expectations, as we're seeing live in this very thread.

Yeah, that is more in line with what she actually said during that older interview. I don't know where this idea that "yuri" implies sexual content comes from. Ironically, "Shoujo Ai" is a unique tag that I don't think is interchangeable and if I understand its usage correctly, is the more sexually charged term in Japan. Someone can correct me.

Don't know if it's true but I've heard multiple people say the phrase "shoujo ai" in Japanese has lolicon vibes to it. What I am confident in is that it's not an actual genre name or commonly used tag.

Yes, that is what I've understood as well. Any article about the subject and its usage in Japan has always made that distinction.

Youre just making stuff up lol, you guys are unhinged

No worries I don’t mind

You seem to have 0 intelligence or mental faculties anyways

Who said anything about sex? Strawman city

It’s about wanting romance/lesbian content as a lesbian, and not dragging fans along through volumes of no relationship progress so they can plug uninteresting dude chars and make money off cds. At the end of the day consume what you desire but I will always criticize crooked stuff. I don’t care if it’s nsfw, could give less shits

I just don’t enjoy the bait and switch from an interesting romancing to a slow burn with all these chars idgaf about that are trope after trope copy and pasted from other mangas. Maybe I’m just expecting too much

Great convo tho salute

Because they are EXTRAS - not part of the main story.

You act like people are crazy for clicking on something with the YURI TAG and wanting YURI

This is just straight up not yuri past like part of the way through volume 2, and has no sign of going back to that. And if it’s true, apparently the author said herself it’s not a yuri so why does it still have the yuri tag and not subtext or side lesbian couple (forget that one tag)

I understand not everyone enjoys slow burn stories. If you don't like the story anymore that's ok. but asking others not to read this anymore is indeed crazy.

We all have our preferences, what you are considering a blasphemy is for others normal, and realistic. I myself mostly use the "shoujo ai" tag when I'm looking for new things to read because "Yuri" from experience would make all the smut and erotica appear, maybe that's what she meant when she said this wasn't Yuri.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure when she says she doesn't consider it yuri, she means that she isn't pandering to the crowd that wants eroticized gayness with loads of fanservice. She wants to keep it toned down and closer to the way she believes people would actually behave

Her overuse of tropes and poor characterization of most of the side characters makes me believe she doesn't want to depict real behavior, but yeah this is still a bait and switch manga. I don’t care if others read it I am just warning those who skim comments before reading that it is not yuri

How can you reread the story, take into consideration the extra pictures we got during breaks depicting their future and STILL say this is not a romance story? Reading her interviews I got the impression that she just don't really like the label "yuri", not that this wasn't romance.

Narita: I'm more into witnessing romance unfold (aya x mitsuki / joe x Kanna).
Some readers: NOOOO this is bait, the author wasted 2 years of our lives, we should riot!

Because they are EXTRAS - not part of the main story.

You act like people are crazy for clicking on something with the YURI TAG and wanting YURI

This is just straight up not yuri past like part of the way through volume 2, and has no sign of going back to that. And if it’s true, apparently the author said herself it’s not a yuri so why does it still have the yuri tag and not subtext or side lesbian couple (forget that one tag)

There are hints of romance sure, but they’ve become so subtle now that you have to squint, and in volume 1 entirely different beast we’re dealing with. I just don’t think it warrants the tag, I think it’s misleading and rude to fans who come for actual yuri

How can you reread the story, take into consideration the extra pictures we got during breaks depicting their future and STILL say this is not a romance story? Reading her interviews I got the impression that she just don't really like the label "yuri", not that this wasn't romance.

Narita: I'm more into witnessing romance unfold (aya x mitsuki / joe x Kanna).
Some readers: NOOOO this is bait, the author wasted 2 years of our lives, we should riot!

Because they are EXTRAS - not part of the main story.

You act like people are crazy for clicking on something with the YURI TAG and wanting YURI

This is just straight up not yuri past like part of the way through volume 2, and has no sign of going back to that. And if it’s true, apparently the author said herself it’s not a yuri so why does it still have the yuri tag and not subtext or side lesbian couple (forget that one tag)

There are hints of romance sure, but they’ve become so subtle now that you have to squint, and in volume 1 entirely different beast we’re dealing with. I just don’t think it warrants the tag, I think it’s misleading and rude to fans who come for actual yuri

How can you reread the story, take into consideration the extra pictures we got during breaks depicting their future and STILL say this is not a romance story? Reading her interviews I got the impression that she just don't really like the label "yuri", not that this wasn't romance.

Narita: I'm more into witnessing romance unfold (aya x mitsuki / joe x Kanna).
Some readers: NOOOO this is bait, the author wasted 2 years of our lives, we should riot!

Because they are EXTRAS - not part of the main story.

You act like people are crazy for clicking on something with the YURI TAG and wanting YURI

This is just straight up not yuri past like part of the way through volume 2, and has no sign of going back to that. And if it’s true, apparently the author said herself it’s not a yuri so why does it still have the yuri tag and not subtext or side lesbian couple (forget that one tag)

People talk about "deserve" way too much with romance, it's kinda gross ngl. Nobody "deserves" any romantic relationship, they aren't something you can earn. They are a matter of two (or more) people consenting to be with each other and clearly Fuuko does not share in these extremely negative interpretations of Yuni's character.

Well, go ahead and share some of her positive qualities with us. I'm curious to hear about them, especially since even the author describes her negatively. Then, explain to us how someone who was forgiven for cheating and then betrays that trust again at the first chance can still be considered a good person.

I think she’s intentionally written in a way to be cunty, where you’re not supposed to have sympathy or like her personally. She’s just too dislikable for it to be an accident. As a writer myself, I can tell what the author is trying to do. Part of why she is the way she is is because she’s not getting her emotional needs met, and doesn’t know what she wants

And because it’s a yuri manga gotta crank that miscommunication and drama meter up 30 lvls haha

last edited at Apr 22, 2024 9:05AM

I don't believe these arguments were made in good faith. My use of the term "development" clearly referred to the growth and change of a character as a person due to experiences within the story - character development. My argument was entirely consistent with that definition. I pointed out that Yuni remains as selfish now as she was at the start, illustrating a lack of character growth or change. This seems like a deliberate misinterpretation of my words.

Project about "bad faith" much? The entire story is about Yuni's changes as a character--her discovery of what she does and doesn't want in a relationship, of her own sexual proclivities, etc.

You started this discussion by demanding that readers enumerate Yuni's positive qualities, and then promptly scorned the answers as "shallow arguments," as if only those aspects of Yuni's character that meet your personal moral standards really count as "development."

To me the expectation that a character must become a "better person" epitomizes a shallow conception of what "character development" means.

I believe you're arguing in bad faith, Blaastar, and persisting in doing so.

I presented an argument about how I perceive Yuni's lack of significant character development since the beginning of the story. You came in asserting that I'm using the term incorrectly, despite your argument being unrelated to what I was trying to convey, as I further clarified in my subsequent post. I don't think it's necessary to continue debating that point.

I firmly believe that an argument based solely on physical attractiveness and sexual compatibility is superficial. Let's agree to disagree on that.

Whether the character development is positive or negative doesn't matter; there's no inherent morality to it. Thus far, I haven't seen any convincing arguments that Yuni has changed. She still exhibits self-centered behavior, lacks communication skills, blames others, and is willing to disregard others' feelings. Moreover, I haven't observed her expressing any sense of remorse in her actions or thoughts, whereas for instance Fuuko has demonstrated meaningful character growth.

Sexual compatibility is definitely not just "superficial," it can solely make or break a relationship. After all of everything else is fine but you're not sexually compatible, why not just be friends?
You also ignored a full half of the points I made for why Fuuko things Yuni is a desirable partner after you asked for them, the two that are specifically about their emotional connection, and then you claim that the only points are "superficial". Are you sure it's everyone else working in bad faith here?
https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/899535

Bruh you can’t ignore all their points and then say

You also ignored a full half of the points I made for why Fuuko things Yuni is a desirable partner after you asked for them, the two that are specifically about their emotional connection, and then you claim that the only points are "superficial". Are you sure it's everyone else working in bad faith here?

If you can’t make a proper argument for your side just concede

I don't believe these arguments were made in good faith. My use of the term "development" clearly referred to the growth and change of a character as a person due to experiences within the story - character development. My argument was entirely consistent with that definition. I pointed out that Yuni remains as selfish now as she was at the start, illustrating a lack of character growth or change. This seems like a deliberate misinterpretation of my words.

Project about "bad faith" much? The entire story is about Yuni's changes as a character--her discovery of what she does and doesn't want in a relationship, of her own sexual proclivities, etc.

You started this discussion by demanding that readers enumerate Yuni's positive qualities, and then promptly scorned the answers as "shallow arguments," as if only those aspects of Yuni's character that meet your personal moral standards really count as "development."

To me the expectation that a character must become a "better person" epitomizes a shallow conception of what "character development" means.

I believe you're arguing in bad faith, Blaastar, and persisting in doing so.

I presented an argument about how I perceive Yuni's lack of significant character development since the beginning of the story. You came in asserting that I'm using the term incorrectly, despite your argument being unrelated to what I was trying to convey, as I further clarified in my subsequent post. I don't think it's necessary to continue debating that point.

I firmly believe that an argument based solely on physical attractiveness and sexual compatibility is superficial. Let's agree to disagree on that.

Whether the character development is positive or negative doesn't matter; there's no inherent morality to it. Thus far, I haven't seen any convincing arguments that Yuni has changed. She still exhibits self-centered behavior, lacks communication skills, blames others, and is willing to disregard others' feelings. Moreover, I haven't observed her expressing any sense of remorse in her actions or thoughts, whereas for instance Fuuko has demonstrated meaningful character growth.

Sexual compatibility is definitely not just "superficial," it can solely make or break a relationship. After all of everything else is fine but you're not sexually compatible, why not just be friends?
You also ignored a full half of the points I made for why Fuuko things Yuni is a desirable partner after you asked for them, the two that are specifically about their emotional connection, and then you claim that the only points are "superficial". Are you sure it's everyone else working in bad faith here?
https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/899535

Bruh you can’t ignore all their points and then say

You also ignored a full half of the points I made for why Fuuko things Yuni is a desirable partner after you asked for them, the two that are specifically about their emotional connection, and then you claim that the only points are "superficial". Are you sure it's everyone else working in bad faith here?

If you can’t make a proper argument for your side just concede

Kadokawa themselves are marketing this as a love story so at least there's that.
link:: https://x.com/Kadobunofficial/status/1779706221894766991

They marketing to sell it. For that matter, Futari Escape was marketed as them being girlfriends despite nothing ever being said on that.

Nothing except the author saying they didn't feel the need to spell things out bc it was published in Yuri hime.

Things don't always need to be written in bolded, flashing neon letters to be true.

100% true but what authors consider "yuri" varies quite a bit and doesn't always match up with what most people here would want. You'd also normally want the series to stand on its own without needing to reference it's publication or an authors' comments on Twitter.

Having said that, I do expect this series to be a bit more straightforward eventually, even if it does have a lot it's working with and balancing. It's slower, yeah but I'd still be surprised if it doesn't get there, despite her comments.

That's how I feel about this story too, I initially thought we'd have volume 1 representing Koga's POV mainly, Vol 2 representing Aya's, then Vol 3 would be where things get serious.

Though the story is taking its time fleshing out characters (which I think is awesome, I don't like it when the main focus is on the 2 MCs, everyone else is Henohenomoheji), there is still a lot we don't know yet about the main cast. I can't explain why but I really think the 'real' romance will only truly start once Aya knows what's up with Koga's past + family, we're talking about the reason why Joe and Kanna had to break up:

Aya'll know what's up > she'll help Koga open up > Koga will be comfortable with the idea of sharing her true self + music > social link rank 9, romance enabled lol.

I don’t think the authors fleshing out characters think she’s just stretching the series as long as possible with taking 0 financial risk

With 83 chapters, that are only four pages each, and no actual romance this has to be the definitive crown for slowest slowburn I’ve ever seen for a Yuri at the very least. I definitely wouldn’t say it’s bait or anything but I can understand why a some people aren’t on board with how slowly it’s playing out

After catching up /rereading myself I definitely think it’s bait. Run for the hills people ur getting used and abused

I think that with the success of this work, the gay shenanigans had to take a backseat because the main sponsors of Sumiko have become the music industry (mainly Universal Music Japan) and not the manga industry or the yuri fandom.

She's been enrolled to promote Universal's catalog in Japan, not to promote the gay agenda.

For her sponsors, the gay is secondary. It's cute and it adds some appeal to the manga, but it's not the main theme anymore.

The first part focused on Aya and Mitsuki and the gender misunderstanding, but once it was out of the way, the second part focused mostly on music, because it's what pays the bills for Sumiko. So she toned down the romance (still keeping the rizz moments) and propped up the western music side.

So I wouldn't expect any actual onscreen kiss or definite gay thing, because it's become too big for that unfortunately, even if Sumiko has not shied away from the gay in the past.

That’s disgusting, I hope the yuri fans are smart enough to leave now that it’s seemingly going nowhere

very ficcable

I am quite amazed about how quick Yuni's mom has caught on. The translation in the panel of p.18 or 188 raw, plus my own understanding are
Yuni's mom: "Your girlfriend did" (Kanojiuka?) Girlfriend?
Yuni: "......"(......) ......
Yuni "Nah, someone else"(Uun Chiu) Wrong
Yuni's mom "What was that pause just now?"(Nani ima no ma) What was that pause?
Yuni "Huh? I didn't..."(Ha? Betsu ni) Huh? Nothing.
Yuni's mom "Eh? Two timing?"(Aijin) Lover?
Yuni "Phrasing!" (iikata) Way to say it.

Must be intuition or personal experience, using both words girlfriend and lover in a conversation with her daughter, assuming that she has both. However she does not seem to imply Yuni is two timing (does something wrong).

You intuition is wrong and I'd appreciate it if you didn't invent your own stuff with your Google translate knowledge of Japanese and try to spread doubt or misinformation. You're not trying to translate manga I hope.

I was confused by your previous question about "lover", now I see why. You're using google translate or DeepL.

愛人 isn't a generic lover here. It's specifically in the meaning of mistress, or, if you want "the person I love sexually as opposed to the person I'm married to/in an official relationship with".

If she meant a "lover" it would be 恋人 (the one you love)

Here, I found a video that explains the difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL0gvr2LOWk

Or here, an actual Japanese answering the question: https://hinative.com/questions/13485754 : 浮気相手 "Adulterous lover".

So, YES, she implies two-timing. Or her reaction, with the sparkling eye, doesn't makes sense.

And "chigau" doesn't only mean wrong, it means "different", so here it's a "no, different" (ie, not my girlfriend, someone else).

Are you Masina?

Why is it that translators always come across as total narcissists when talking to other people lol? You don't need to insult the other person's intelligence or accuse them of being some kind of fake news spreader.

you could just leave out all the narccy bull and still give all the same information.

inb4 bad attitudes and generated social apathy really lead to Ai generation

last edited at Feb 22, 2024 2:37AM

I want to write a incest fic with the mom

maker help us all

Amazin’

Yeah the pose is a bit stiff

Why there are many writers here criticizing an ecchi manga lol. Just enjoy the cute kissing and art.

Why eat a shit diaper when you could eat a brownie Sunday?