Damn I could be taking them a bit more seriously if everyone's bodies didn't look sculpted for the male gaze. Yuni being a lil piece of shit, as she should. Terrified to see what this cumulates into now that everything is revealed. I'm still curious what's driving Fuuko's whole mentality. What does she get out of NTRing these two.

botmj posted:

Damn I could be taking them a bit more seriously if everyone's bodies didn't look sculpted for the male gaze. Yuni being a lil piece of shit, as she should. Terrified to see what this cumulates into now that everything is revealed. I'm still curious what's driving Fuuko's whole mentality. What does she get out of NTRing these two.

What's "sculpted for the male gaze" doing here? Women aren't allowed to appreciate their body? When girls are drawn for girls, they should be drawn as plain as possible? So as to avoid those icky male gazes?

The only thing I have a bit of gripe about is that these three have huge boobs, which is a bit unrealistic for 3 Japanese high school girls.

Other than that, they're totally sculpted for anyone who appreciates the female body.

the show has shown its true colors,this is ntr trash plain and simple.

I'm sure you were not even skimming this manga

am i going insane or has some people not realized that there is a difference between cheating and ntr?

how has the fact that they exist as distinct words not given them a clue of this great profound truth at all?

I DO know what they are. I'm sure you're confused

the show has shown its true colors,this is ntr trash plain and simple.

I'm sure you were not even skimming this manga

am i going insane or has some people not realized that there is a difference between cheating and ntr?

how has the fact that they exist as distinct words not given them a clue of this great profound truth at all?

I DO know what they are. I'm sure you're confused

if you know what they are then what the hell was the point of your first response?

Ah yes, the great definitional “cheating vs ntr” philosophical debate—makes the old “yuri vs shojou ai” maunderings sound like the Academy of Athens.

Ah yes, the great definitional “cheating vs ntr” philosophical debate—makes the old “yuri vs shojou ai” maunderings sound like the Academy of Athens.

I mean... The difference is clear, cheating is cheating in general, netorare is a specific dynamic that doesn't even need to include cheating, it just has to have the loved person being "taken away" by someone else and focus on the suffering or humiliation.

Examples: A is dating B, B cheats on A with C and thats it (just regular cheating)

A is dating B, C steps in to seduce B, B falls in love with C, A finds out, A suffers (netorare)

A has a crush on B for a long time, C starts something with B, A finds out and is heartbroken (netorare but with no cheating)

last edited at May 19, 2023 5:27AM

Also, what I noticed is that the main gripe people have about Yuni is that she never tried to communicate her "loneliness" to Nanase. And so, it's also her fault if she's been neglected. Commnunication, blah, blah blah...

But people are judging this from a western point of view, where people are used to be told to lay things on the table and discuss the issues.

The way Japanese people interact is different and one of the things I noticed is that they dislike direct confrontation, or criticizing others directly. There's this whole cultural thing about "reading the room" or "disturbing the harmony" that prevents direct communication and expects people to take hints on what others are thinking and avoid making a fuss or putting others in a difficult position. Not to say that some Japanese people don't do it, but it's considered rude.

The whole situation stems from the fact Nanase's unable to read and respond to Yuni's emotions and needs, and for that reason, their relationship's falling apart. And the fact Yuni doesn't confront her is because IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU DO EASILY IN THEIR CULTURE. There needs to be a real crisis for them to speak their mind, like in the latest chapter. Yuni's at the end of her rope. She loves Nanase, but she finds in Fuuko everything she lacking in her own relationship and she's at an impasse.

On the other hand, Fuuko's really good at it. She can read Yuni and Nanase easily. She can navigate the whole thing without a hitch, so she's able to poke holes in the relationship easily.

Anyway, my point is, trying to judge these characters' behavior from a western point of view is completely different than how Japanese readers perceive it. Even they think "cheating is bad" of course, but to them, the whole situation doesn't seem as implausible or as "easily solved" as some readers here seem to think.

I can see why everyone in the comments seems so riled up, but personally I love this!
I usually prefer fluff, but there's something so visceral about this story that makes it impossible to look away. It's almost cathartic.

Ah yes, the great definitional “cheating vs ntr” philosophical debate—makes the old “yuri vs shojou ai” maunderings sound like the Academy of Athens.

All NTR is cheating, but not all cheating is NTR.

Ten years down the line these three -- Nanase playing her ball games or whatever, Fuuko scoring with some hot sugar mama, Yuni in a trash heap somewhere -- look back and think to themselves, "that sure happened in high school huh? Oh well"

LMAO

The whole situation stems from the fact Nanase's unable to read and respond to Yuni's emotions and needs, and for that reason, their relationship's falling apart. And the fact Yuni doesn't confront her is because IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU DO EASILY IN THEIR CULTURE. There needs to be a real crisis for them to speak their mind, like in the latest chapter. Yuni's at the end of her rope. She loves Nanase, but she finds in Fuuko everything she lacking in her own relationship and she's at an impasse.[...]

I can agree with the cultural point, to a degree, but leaning too much into it fringes on exceptionalism, like the Japanese are somehow a special breed that follows completely different rules from all other human beings.
Nanase is simply a bad girlfriend because she's too immature and doesn't value her lover, not because her being japanese maker her unable to do so. And Yuni is a bad girlfriend because instead of communicating her discomfort she chose to scream into the void (Twitter) and, again, she chose to do so, not because her culture mandates it.

last edited at May 19, 2023 5:50AM

I guess Fuuko is bad at being Japanese because she surely loves confrontation.

Also I thought the main gripe people have about Yuni is that she has the IQ of a turnip? Or maybe that's just me.

Re-reading this chapter, I love the composition of page 11. Fuuko takes the stance of the one protecting Yuni from the baaad Nanase, all the while asserting and showing how touchy feely she can get with her and how Yuni doesn't reject her at all!

All the body language, eyes and faces are masterful. Nanase's face on page 22-23 is a poster for the face of a character when they realize they've been NTR'd and their whole world crumbles.

Iwami Kiyoko's work is awe inspiring.

I don't understand how anyone can dislike this masterpiece.

last edited at May 19, 2023 6:11AM

Ah yes, the great definitional “cheating vs ntr” philosophical debate—makes the old “yuri vs shojou ai” maunderings sound like the Academy of Athens.

I mean... The difference is clear, cheating is cheating in general, netorare is a specific dynamic that doesn't even need to include cheating, it just has to have the loved person being "taken away" by someone else and focus on the suffering or humiliation.

Examples: A is dating B, B cheats on A with C and thats it (just regular cheating)

A is dating B, C steps in to seduce B, B falls in love with C, A finds out, A suffers (netorare)

A has a crush on B for a long time, C starts something with B, A finds out and is heartbroken (netorare but with no cheating)

Aristotle would be so proud of your work here today.

It's not a proper comment section unless you get slapped in the face with Poe's Law so hard your cheek stings for a good while afterwards.

Even when it is happening right in front of you? I mean not to knock on anyone's kink of course!

Well I'm not really monogamous to begin with, the only reason I'm in monogamous relationships is that they work better for me for practical reasons. But I don't intend to possess people and I don't mind my partners having sex with other people, even in front of me, as long as my consent was taken into account, as with any other pda or sexual thing. (depending on the situation, that might very well be pretty nice ;) ) So to me, cheating is just breaking one of the rules that were set in the relationship - it's bad, sure, it can even be pretty terrible if you know it will hurt the other person badly, but the act in itself is not the end of the world. It's your body and your freedom to begin with.

Never cheated on anyone and never got cheated on tho. Who knows how I might react !

I would not like to be in Nanase situation tho. But mostly because I don't like to see sexual acts or sexual pda from up close without consenting to it first. The cheating is irrelevant to me.

She thinks club ativities and her lover to be BOTH precious!!! like WHAT EVEY adult does!!!

Wait—do adults even have club activities?

I thought after graduation it was all Go Home club.

Yuni did tell Nanase some of her frustrations at the end of the festival date though. Nanase promised to do better and then didn't change at all. And Nanase really is neglectful; it would be one thing if Nanase was just focused on her volleyball and Yuni was painfully jealous over it, but Nanase forgets anniversaries, refuses to show any kind of affection in public (even stuff that she does with her friends and club-mates) and constantly takes Yuni for granted (like assuming Yuni could just afford to go on a trip to Osaka to cheer her on with like a week's notice).

Yuni's cheating isn't justified, but her frustrations with their relationship are valid, and Nanase has done a terrible job of being a good partner. Fuuko was able to worm her way into Yuni's life by offering her everything that Nanase refused to give her.

If Fuuko was more patient she likely could have gotten Yuni to break up with Nanase by just being persistent and continuously pointing out Nanase's bad points, but Fuuko is obviously not that patient. Yuni and Nanase needed to break up, and I feel like despite the twists and turns the story has taken, that would have been a good outcome.

But this latest chapter is... yikes. Based on what we've seen of Fuuko's backstory, it seemed like she just wanted somebody to love her back but for some reason she just basically told Nanase that what she wants is NTR. If I assumed the story was going to be logical and consistent, I'd guess that the reason for this is that Fuuko is trying to shock Nanase into breaking up with Yuni (there are some elements that track with that, like revealing they had sex).

However, the last chapter was wild enough that I don't think assuming the story will be logical and consistent is actually very smart at this point. I think we're headed towards -maximum disaster- territory instead.

Also, what I noticed is that the main gripe people have about Yuni is that she never tried to communicate her "loneliness" to Nanase. And so, it's also her fault if she's been neglected. Commnunication, blah, blah blah...

But people are judging this from a western point of view, where people are used to be told to lay things on the table and discuss the issues.

The way Japanese people interact is different and one of the things I noticed is that they dislike direct confrontation, or criticizing others directly. There's this whole cultural thing about "reading the room" or "disturbing the harmony" that prevents direct communication and expects people to take hints on what others are thinking and avoid making a fuss or putting others in a difficult position. Not to say that some Japanese people don't do it, but it's considered rude.

The whole situation stems from the fact Nanase's unable to read and respond to Yuni's emotions and needs, and for that reason, their relationship's falling apart. And the fact Yuni doesn't confront her is because IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU DO EASILY IN THEIR CULTURE. There needs to be a real crisis for them to speak their mind, like in the latest chapter. Yuni's at the end of her rope. She loves Nanase, but she finds in Fuuko everything she lacking in her own relationship and she's at an impasse.

On the other hand, Fuuko's really good at it. She can read Yuni and Nanase easily. She can navigate the whole thing without a hitch, so she's able to poke holes in the relationship easily.

Anyway, my point is, trying to judge these characters' behavior from a western point of view is completely different than how Japanese readers perceive it. Even they think "cheating is bad" of course, but to them, the whole situation doesn't seem as implausible or as "easily solved" as some readers here seem to think.

This, this is totally on point! We can't expect Japanese people to be like ,let's say, people from USA. I'm Mexican, we don't keep stuff inside, not for long, no sir!!

If Fuuko was more patient she likely could have gotten Yuni to break up with Nanase by just being persistent and continuously pointing out Nanase's bad points, but Fuuko is obviously not that patient. Yuni and Nanase needed to break up, and I feel like despite the twists and turns the story has taken, that would have been a good outcome.

But this latest chapter is... yikes. Based on what we've seen of Fuuko's backstory, it seemed like she just wanted somebody to love her back but for some reason she just basically told Nanase that what she wants is NTR. If I assumed the story was going to be logical and consistent, I'd guess that the reason for this is that Fuuko is trying to shock Nanase into breaking up with Yuni (there are some elements that track with that, like revealing they had sex).

However, the last chapter was wild enough that I don't think assuming the story will be logical and consistent is actually very smart at this point. I think we're headed towards -maximum disaster- territory instead.

Fuuko is bitter over being "betrayed" by the girl she had a crush on, who went off and got married to a guy. Fuuko wants to empower herself by becoming the one who steals another person's girl away, passing off the anger over being a cuckold onto someone else. It's not enough for Fuuko to steal Yuni away from Nanase; Nanase needs to see Yuni being stolen away from her. She's the parasitic fungus that she was telling Yuni about way back in Chapter 1.

Of course, this means that Yuni is assuming (and Fuuko's spent the entire manga telling her) that she's #1 in Fuuko's eyes, when in reality she's basically just a rebound. Even if Yuni and Nanase broke up and Yuni got together with Fuuko, I can't see the relationship lasting. It's likely that Fuuko would get bored and move on.

Re-reading this chapter, I love the composition of page 11. Fuuko takes the stance of the one protecting Yuni from the baaad Nanase, all the while asserting and showing how touchy feely she can get with her and how Yuni doesn't reject her at all!

All the body language, eyes and faces are masterful. Nanase's face on page 22-23 is a poster for the face of a character when they realize they've been NTR'd and their whole world crumbles.

Iwami Kiyoko's work is awe inspiring.

I don't understand how anyone can dislike this masterpiece.

Just passing by on this latest chapter to see what's up with the story since I last saw it's first chapter, and woah tf kind of cringe is this.

Nana half assed the relationship. Yuni half assed handling that problem.
Fuuko is the only one going full ass here. She's using them both to get that season ticket for the emotional rollercoaster ride at the italian soap opera theme park. Best character, even if it doesn't say much.

Re-reading this chapter, I love the composition of page 11. Fuuko takes the stance of the one protecting Yuni from the baaad Nanase, all the while asserting and showing how touchy feely she can get with her and how Yuni doesn't reject her at all!

All the body language, eyes and faces are masterful. Nanase's face on page 22-23 is a poster for the face of a character when they realize they've been NTR'd and their whole world crumbles.

Iwami Kiyoko's work is awe inspiring.

I don't understand how anyone can dislike this masterpiece.

I agree so much and have nothing more to add: you said everything.

Nanase: worst gf ever, or at least a close runner-up.

The girl she's dating asks her for simple things (spend more time together, pay more attention to her, have more sexytime) and she doesn't give her anything. Some things she promises after much nagging, but then she doesn't keep her word. Oh but she expects that her demands be satisfied! "Come root for me at Osaka!" Doesn't she know how expensive that is for a teen?

And she didn't even make some free time to be together after the match. They could have gone to a love hotel, since nobody knows them in Osaka! Actually, after dating for half a year, did they have sex at least once? Honest question. I honestly can't remember.

Seriously, why does she even bother going out with another girl if she's going to treat her like a casual friend who isn't really too close? If I didn't know that this is yuri, I'd think that the big reveal at the end of the manga will be that Nanase is straight and needs a boyfriend.

Seriously, why does she even bother going out with another girl if she's going to treat her like a casual friend who isn't really too close? If I didn't know that this is yuri, I'd think that the big reveal at the end of the manga will be that Nanase is straight and needs a boyfriend.

Interesting take. There are many, many yuri stories where a couple is going out but tries to keep their love secret... and in ALL OF THEM one of the main plot devices is how they have to resort to all sorts of tricks to do what they desperately want: find chances to be alone, go on dates and have sex! If one of the girls has a large friend circle (like Nanase) it's common that the friends quickly start suspecting something odd is going on, because this girl is always leaving early and her excuses are always half-assed. It's quite extraordinary that a character in Nanase's position, who just got herself a girlfriend, doesn't change her daily routine in the least and doesn't even try to make extra time for her lover.

Nanase's disinterest in Yuni is very sus. That's not how a teenager who started going out with a cute girlfriend should behave. No wonder Yuni feels better around Fuuko who obviously has the raging hots for her!

last edited at May 19, 2023 7:22PM

Friendly reminder that Nanase only confessed because "oh god she's the only girl who doesn't find my haircut stupid im in love "