I've read this again and boy, it's so sweet and a lot of moments are realistic and relatable. Lesbian drama at its finest. I want more.

This idea that your love will win through sheer willpower is very toxic, because 99% of the time the thing that prevents your love from happening is the other person, and whether their reasons for saying no are good or not is irrelevant.

Ayaka is forcing Hiroko and whether it's for the best or not is irrelevant too, she should just stop.

I love Ayaka, but I think my love for her comes from romanticizing something that really shouldn't be.

Point here is that Hiroko is also desperately in love with Ayaka as well and has been for a while, and Ayaka is cutting through her self-sabotage and fears by being a charging bull. Hiroko is not that toxic as a potential girlfriend (her being a player is reflection of her yearning for a relationship she never dared to have), she's just destructive towards herself because of all that previous trauma. It's not "you'll learn to love me", or "forced sex to spark love", "I'll make you gay/straight" or any of those other truly deplorable tropes.

As for whether they could stay together, I think it is a completely moot point here, even if 10 year age gap relationships aren't the most stable. Ayaka wants to date Hiroko of today, she's not worried or concerned about few years down the road. Hiroko might be, but she's getting the better side of the deal with a cute and much younger girl literally throwing herself in her arms. Even if it ends at some point, at least she'd finally experienced a proper relationship with someone who wanted to be with her.

I also don't think Ayaka has as many false ideas about Hiroko anymore as she initially had, as she's had few bitter moments with her and made effort to learn about Hiroko and how wlw relationships are in reality through other people who are like her and have observed Hiroko through these years.

Nice, some proper character analysis.

DynastyS is a great place to check comments if you want to see some grandstanding and fragility - some of these people really think someones going to read this manga and think its going to negatively impact peoples understanding of a healthy relationship. Its a manga, of all the mangas to be picking apart, this is one of the most wholesome that exists. And, at the same time, their analysis of "toxicity" is usually so fucking surface-level its hilarious. But, thats the queer analysis for ya, helpful to no one, destroys its own allies

Well, medias do impact our views on the world. Maybe you're not build in a way that stories shape you, but for a lot of people, it's like that. This manga affects me. It creates this idea in me that it's wholesome and positive to charge like a bull when someone is saying no to me and I'm sure they love me. I did it several times in the past because books and mangas gave me this false idea about romance. And I did hurt people because of that.

So maybe keep your petty remarks for you. :)

Everyone's loving Ayaka but I get the feeling that in real life she would end up in jail pretty fast.

You can love Ayaka, but don't be like Ayaka ;)

This idea that your love will win through sheer willpower is very toxic, because 99% of the time the thing that prevents your love from happening is the other person, and whether their reasons for saying no are good or not is irrelevant.

Ayaka is forcing Hiroko and whether it's for the best or not is irrelevant too, she should just stop.

I love Ayaka, but I think my love for her comes from romanticizing something that really shouldn't be.

Yeah irl she should've taken the no as a no and moved on. This is one of those cases where I think people would see her behavior way differently if she was a man, y'know

Just gonna point out she's also had Hiroko's friends encouraging and supporting her? She isn't acting in a vacuum of information here. Everybody around them knows HIroko is super into Ayaka. Ayaka has seen firsthand how Hiroko reacts to her. She's been told about Hiroko's trauma. She knows why Hiroko is trying to cut her loose and she knows her reasons are unfounded. She has good reasons to believe that Hiroko is actively running from her real feelings, she isn't just clinging to a delusion because she can't let go of a crush.

Yeah, if somebody says no, you should respect that. But there's nothing wrong with being honest about your own feelings, either. She didn't force herself on anybody, she confronted her honestly and directly. And she was right?

Do you guys honestly think she should have just let Hiroko continue to run from her feelings? Stick to shallow relationships? Hide from her trauma? Go back to hitting on random chicks at the bar?

The problem with this "I can fix her" and "she will be happier with me she loves me" is that sure, maybe you're right and it's in the best interest of everyone... But maybe you're wrong and the other outsider are too. (honnestly friends are usually the last person you should ask that kind of things) Ayaka does not read the manga she exists in. She has no way to know for sure it's the right thing to do. Even for us readers you could argue it's not 100% certain.

When someone says no, it means no. If you insist and harass and press on, you're being a harasser. It can be pretty damaging for the person you interact with. I've been both Hiroko and Ayaka and I can say this for sure. :) Sometimes you say no to someone you love, and yes, it means no.

Everyone's loving Ayaka but I get the feeling that in real life she would end up in jail pretty fast.

You can love Ayaka, but don't be like Ayaka ;)

This idea that your love will win through sheer willpower is very toxic, because 99% of the time the thing that prevents your love from happening is the other person, and whether their reasons for saying no are good or not is irrelevant.

Ayaka is forcing Hiroko and whether it's for the best or not is irrelevant too, she should just stop.

I love Ayaka, but I think my love for her comes from romanticizing something that really shouldn't be.

Haha it was very realistic, sounds like the life of a lot of people I know, including myself. At least they have love so it's a pretty good ending. I'm fine with that.

HAHAHAHAHA that manga is just excellent.

The spirit of yuri is embodied and it's angry :D

It's a very funny, unlikely mix. Not sure if the author is a genius or the worse otaku on earth, or both.

Good idea, because everyone knows that going friends with benefits when you're in love with someone is the most healthy idea possible

Sometimes you need to get it out of your system (literally in that situation right now myself). It's not necessarily the best idea, but if you're mature about it and communicate well with the other person then it can work out fine.

Well if it works for you, good !

For a lot of people, it will just deepen the feelings and make it hurt even more. Also it can make it a lot harder to move on.

Seems like a risky enterprise to me :p But to each their own. :)

Good idea, because everyone knows that going friends with benefits when you're in love with someone is the most healthy idea possible

I hope we will get more of this one day. It's so good -

To me it's more like it's become more and more obvious that her feelings are not and will never be reciprocated and it makes the whole thing more and more sad with each new chapter.

God I have a high tolerance to sugar but this is cringe xD

Still cute I guess

I mean... I guess it's not a useless discussion and I'm not in a position to comment much as it seems a guys' problem overall.

As a lesbian I think the MC attitude towards yuri is more commendable than the other one. But both of them are creepy anyway.

Always curious of what guys feel about yuri tho. Especially about the yuris that are clearly targetted to women. If it was just about fetishizing homosexuality (...irk...) there wouldn't be so much activity on a lot of mangas I read.

What is the population ratio of this site by the way, gender-wise ?

There was a survey of online Yuri communities that included some responses from Dynasty in 2017.

https://floatingintobliss.wordpress.com/2017/10/14/report-on-the-yuri-fandom-demographic-survey/

It's worth reading in full, but one of the main takeaways is that online Yuri communities are highly diverse by gender and sexuality, and decidedly not male-dominated across the board. It's also interesting that it's harder to categorize the types of Yuri that are "for men" and "for women" than we would assume; i.e. readers across gender cite similar reasons for why they enjoy Yuri, and the list of top 10 favorite titles look very similar.

For more context on the demographics, I recommend the analyses from Yuri Mother and Zeria.

https://www.animefeminist.com/yuri-is-for-everyone-an-analysis-of-yuri-demographics-and-readership/

https://floatingintobliss.wordpress.com/2017/11/27/yuri-isnt-made-for-men-an-analysis-of-the-demographics-of-yuri-mangaka-and-fans/

Amazing ! Thanks a lot :) Very interesting.

I mean... I guess it's not a useless discussion and I'm not in a position to comment much as it seems a guys' problem overall.

As a lesbian I think the MC attitude towards yuri is more commendable than the other one. But both of them are creepy anyway.

Always curious of what guys feel about yuri tho. Especially about the yuris that are clearly targetted to women. If it was just about fetishizing homosexuality (...irk...) there wouldn't be so much activity on a lot of mangas I read.

What is the population ratio of this site by the way, gender-wise ?

This is going to destroy me

Yup, same.

So why the fuck are we reading it... As if life wasn't hard enough already

Stopped liking subtext around 16-17 so i'm a bit old for this, but even then, there's no subtext at all. I'm dropping this ~

Other than that, they're totally sculpted for anyone who appreciates the female body.

Absurd boobs is often a good indicator of how men-oriented a drawing is. In my experience, women tend to enjoy more realistic boobs, for very obvious reasons. (not talking about size only)

Even when it is happening right in front of you? I mean not to knock on anyone's kink of course!

Well I'm not really monogamous to begin with, the only reason I'm in monogamous relationships is that they work better for me for practical reasons. But I don't intend to possess people and I don't mind my partners having sex with other people, even in front of me, as long as my consent was taken into account, as with any other pda or sexual thing. (depending on the situation, that might very well be pretty nice ;) ) So to me, cheating is just breaking one of the rules that were set in the relationship - it's bad, sure, it can even be pretty terrible if you know it will hurt the other person badly, but the act in itself is not the end of the world. It's your body and your freedom to begin with.

Never cheated on anyone and never got cheated on tho. Who knows how I might react !

I would not like to be in Nanase situation tho. But mostly because I don't like to see sexual acts or sexual pda from up close without consenting to it first. The cheating is irrelevant to me.

I enjoy this because Nanase is trash and Fuuko is justice :D

Also I dont care much about cheating, never thought it was that big of a deal personnally so... shrug

The author is definitely depressed but that's not much of a stretch to deduce.

Really ? I always wonder how anyone can make assumptions about the author's life based on what they wrote. I know very happy and balanced people that write fucked up things and vice versa.

Aaaawwww god it was so cute <3 <3 <3

Came for the villainess, stayed for Diana. Preparing myself to suffer.

Damn I love this author. <3

Uh... Okay ? Not thrilled about this one. Somewhere between "I don't like the narrative" and "well yeah a lot of trans women are indeed like that".

Most of us don't find molesting gender affirming. It's scary, or infuriating, or both. Also most of us don't suddenly realize what "being a woman" means because we've been one for as long as we remember.

Also can we stop with the hyperfeminine trans woman all the time ? Lots of us are genderfuck, butch, or masculine. We play cowboys, videogames, repair things in the house and are lesbians to the bones, And we never get representation >.>

holy shes dextrous and strong. doing that with your hands behind your back?! Color me impressed.

That's what I thought haha. It hurts pretty fast in that position

thriving, thank you for the update

you're welcome! ngl though, i'm a bit disappointed by the general lack of excitement for this side series, haha, so i'm happy to know you were waiting for it :)

It's one of my favorite mangas and my favorite couple

My hype is seconded to none

:D