I always felt deep intimate friendship + sexual desire = romantic love. I've been "yelled at" several times, for that belief, in the story comment sections. However I honestly can't think of any other way to define it.

I've always found the way the author handles labels and romance to be fascinating, mainly how many of her characters--Kasumi and Koruri being the two big ones--aren't internally driven to them at all. They're fine with leaving things unspoken but intimate and only consider the label 'girlfriend' when the people they're close with push for it. It makes me wonder if the author's own experience with romance has been similar, and that's why she depicts love this way.

Moca strives for labels. She places meaning in them, so that if "one day she disappears" someone will mourn for her. This is how she validates her existence.

Sakurako was okay with not defining her relationship with Kasumi because they had a balanced give and take together, until she was challenged in a way that made her to want to secure her place in Kasumi’s life. The idea Kasumi could just...be without her and let her go (Special 3) pushed her to try to change their relationship into of explicit romance.

Kasumi, is the ultimate loner. She neither seeks labels, nor needs them, and doesn't need people in her life nor the assurance of her own permanence in their lives. She fundamentally lacks the fear of "disappearing" like Moca, or not mattering, because she's the epitome of self-sufficiency. No part of her is dependent on another human to define herself or fulfill her needs. However, there's a twist. Somehow living with Sakurako for seven years has been the right balance of "not too much but not too little" (ch 65.3). Somehow, she hasn't gotten sick of Sakurako despite how bothersome it can be for her (who is lazy and chooses the path of least resistance) to live with a whole other person.

This story is a really cute slice of life, but the author also places different forms of connection against each other. This story was never about the Romance! It's about how we navigate the relationship we have with someone we want to be with for the rest of our lives. When Koruri finally accepted being Moca's girlfriend, finally accepting that label of girlfriend, she was using romance as the Vehicle, a Means to secure Moca in her life. We never get a deep psychological dissection of what romantic love means for her. It doesn't matter. What matters is the conflict between them (Koruri fearing Moca may leave one day without saying a word, both sating their need for companionship) and how they compromised to keep each other in their lives (Koruri accepting being Moca's girlfriend). This story is different variations exploring the fundamental intimacy between people who live together, who share A Room For Two, and how different people choose to define it using the means they have.

I'm sure the other different pairings like Seri and her roommate, or Sakurako's sister and her roommate, all have their own flavors and nuances. I just can't remember them after following this series for so many years lol.

last edited at Apr 1, 2023 7:43PM

Phew, thought we were about to have actual character progression in this story for a second. Sure dodged a bullet there.

I'm sure the other different pairings like Seri and her roommate, or Sakurako's sister and her roommate, all have their own flavors and nuances. I just can't remember them after following this series for so many years lol.

Shouko and Seri have what is probably the most "basic" I can't think of a better word romance relationship in the series. Two opposites who just happened to be roomed together and after a while found themselves attracted to one another and ultimately acted on those feelings. Not gonna lie, the chapter where they reveal those feelings to each other is probably one of my favorites in the series.

Far as Sakurako's sister and her friend, I don't think we've actually seen enough of them to really call their relationship anything other than a friendship. I could be wrong there, though.

I always felt deep intimate friendship + sexual desire = romantic love. I've been "yelled at" several times, for that belief, in the story comment sections. However I honestly can't think of any other way to define it.

I will say, sexual desire isn’t necessary for romantic love and romantic love isn’t necessary to feel sexual desire for someone. They are separate things and while they are often intertwined that is not always the case.

Damn, I missed a bit, including a Yukari chapter! You know I'm still rooting for her, she's so cute and I want her to be more than an observer...

Kasumi, I wonder if she's just been misled by stories about what falling in love feels like so she hasn't recognised that what she has is what couples get after years together.

Kasumi, I wonder if she's just been misled by stories about what falling in love feels like so she hasn't recognised that what she has is what couples get after years together.

"Doesn't get romance" has kind of become an "in-between" character trope--it used to be "misled by pop culture about what real romance is" (Yuu in YagaKimi being the most famous example) and now seems to be transitioning to "character on the aro/ace spectrum," (at least as far as many readers are concerned).

I always felt deep intimate friendship + sexual desire = romantic love. I've been "yelled at" several times, for that belief, in the story comment sections. However I honestly can't think of any other way to define it.

I will say, sexual desire isn’t necessary for romantic love and romantic love isn’t necessary to feel sexual desire for someone. They are separate things and while they are often intertwined that is not always the case.

Then define romantic love. How is it different from platonic love? Say the love for a close friend, or a family member.

Kasumi, I wonder if she's just been misled by stories about what falling in love feels like so she hasn't recognised that what she has is what couples get after years together.

"Doesn't get romance" has kind of become an "in-between" character trope--it used to be "misled by pop culture about what real romance is" (Yuu in YagaKimi being the most famous example) and now seems to be transitioning to "character on the aro/ace spectrum," (at least as far as many readers are concerned).

When a characters thoughts/behavior overlap with the experiences one has being on such a spectrum it's inevitable that they'll be read as such by those it resonates with, regardless of whether said character was purposefully written to be that way. Especially when there hasn't been any definite word to the contrary.

last edited at Apr 1, 2023 11:54PM

I always felt deep intimate friendship + sexual desire = romantic love. I've been "yelled at" several times, for that belief, in the story comment sections. However I honestly can't think of any other way to define it.

The fuck else is it supposed to be, a setup for a tax avoidance scheme?

Wait, can someone confirm for me whether this is an April Fools chapter or not...? Because I can see both that mentioned here as well as seemingly proper discussion, and the download file name certainly does say "april" at the end?

Wait, can someone confirm for me whether this is an April Fools chapter or not...? Because I can see both that mentioned here as well as seemingly proper discussion, and the download file name certainly does say "april" at the end?

My understanding is that only pages 14 & 15 are an April Fools joke. Page 16 repeats page 13, and proceeds normally (I almost said, “plays it straight”) from there.

This manga should settle for one thing or the other. Kasumi either loves Sakurako or doesn't. It won't change a thing about them regardless, so why bother? Unless a sudden verbal declaration from Kasumi will make them act more physically. Which it won't. I'm not sure if the author is running out of ideas, if this was planned, or if it was due to them being prodded about this "issue" but it's such a redundant "plot", especially this late into the series.
This whole philo-Kasumi is the only thing that I ever found annoying about the manga. Sure, people had longwinded discussions if it's love or not, but does it matter? Again, Not really

Wait, can someone confirm for me whether this is an April Fools chapter or not...? Because I can see both that mentioned here as well as seemingly proper discussion, and the download file name certainly does say "april" at the end?

My understanding is that only pages 14 & 15 are an April Fools joke. Page 16 repeats page 13, and proceeds normally (I almost said, “plays it straight”) from there.

Noted.

edit: Well, she's certain she'll want to spend her life with Sakurako like this. That is good enough for me for now.

last edited at Apr 2, 2023 9:35AM

This whole philo-Kasumi is the only thing that I ever found annoying about the manga.

I'm not sure I understand what this means. Can you elaborate?

I always felt deep intimate friendship + sexual desire = romantic love. I've been "yelled at" several times, for that belief, in the story comment sections. However I honestly can't think of any other way to define it.

I will say, sexual desire isn’t necessary for romantic love and romantic love isn’t necessary to feel sexual desire for someone. They are separate things and while they are often intertwined that is not always the case.

Then define romantic love. How is it different from platonic love? Say the love for a close friend, or a family member.

Defining love in general is pretty hard. But a parent for example isn't going to have the same feelings towards their children that they have towards their best friend. And claiming that romantic love is just platonic love + sexual desire means that friends with benefits are automatically in a romantic relationship. Even if they've never been on dates and just meet up whenever they feel like it. Following that logic all those butterflies in the stomach that people like to mention in regards to falling in love are in that case only a sign of the person being horny. Because most people don't experience this sensation when with their friends and we've established that the only difference between friend and crush is sex, right? And what do we do with the fact that people in love can get pretty jealous? Most people don't get that jealous over their friends, so is that also just a sign of being horny?

I always felt deep intimate friendship + sexual desire = romantic love. I've been "yelled at" several times, for that belief, in the story comment sections. However I honestly can't think of any other way to define it.

I will say, sexual desire isn’t necessary for romantic love and romantic love isn’t necessary to feel sexual desire for someone. They are separate things and while they are often intertwined that is not always the case.

Then define romantic love. How is it different from platonic love? Say the love for a close friend, or a family member.

Defining love in general is pretty hard. But a parent for example isn't going to have the same feelings towards their children that they have towards their best friend. And claiming that romantic love is just platonic love + sexual desire means that friends with benefits are automatically in a romantic relationship. Even if they've never been on dates and just meet up whenever they feel like it. Following that logic all those butterflies in the stomach that people like to mention in regards to falling in love are in that case only a sign of the person being horny. Because most people don't experience this sensation when with their friends and we've established that the only difference between friend and crush is sex, right? And what do we do with the fact that people in love can get pretty jealous? Most people don't get that jealous over their friends, so is that also just a sign of being horny?

I disagree with most of your conclusions. And i think sexual desire is deeper and more complicated than mearly being "horny". But your point about the butterflies makes me think. What are the butterflies? Are they just nervous excitement mixed with love and desire? Or are they really the answer to my question about romantic love without sexual desire.

The actual answer is love is a complicated thing that will differ from person to person and so is not a thing that can be cleanly defined with a single catch-all definition.

I'm not caught up so I don't want any spoilers, but on this page: https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_room_for_two_special_3_the_things_i_want_to_ask_but_havent_been_able_to#15
Sakurako recalls a dream Moka had. Was this something that actually happened earlier in the series, and if so, does anyone know what chapter it's in?

Hauteclere posted:

I'm not caught up so I don't want any spoilers, but on this page: https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_room_for_two_special_3_the_things_i_want_to_ask_but_havent_been_able_to#15
Sakurako recalls a dream Moka had. Was this something that actually happened earlier in the series, and if so, does anyone know what chapter it's in?

Yes! It happened fairly recently, even, in chapter 63.5. Specifically on page 11, but an excuse to reread the whole chapter is nice, no?

Hauteclere posted:

I'm not caught up so I don't want any spoilers, but on this page: https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_room_for_two_special_3_the_things_i_want_to_ask_but_havent_been_able_to#15
Sakurako recalls a dream Moka had. Was this something that actually happened earlier in the series, and if so, does anyone know what chapter it's in?

Yes! It happened fairly recently, even, in chapter 63.5. Specifically on page 11, but an excuse to reread the whole chapter is nice, no?

Oh, that was fast, thanks.

I'm reading the Tokypop release and I happened to notice that these lines have a very different meaning. While in the scan it says she had a dream where this happened, in Tokyopop's version it has her narrating that it is her dream, as in her goal in life, to create an environment where no one will look for her when she's gone. I wanted to see the original to see if it was consistent and what made more sense in context. Tokyopop's release is consistent with itself, but I feel like the scan is probably more accurate, since "I want be a loner whose absence no one will notice" is...insanely depressing and doesn't feel like it goes well the tone or message that's supposed to be conveyed.

Kasumi misunderstanding Hino and interpreting her question as whether she wants to bring her romance to the office was adorkable. Very like her.

Dont like this new girl just seems annoying.

Dont like this new girl just seems annoying.

she plays an important role in the overall process of getting Kasumi to think about her relationship with Sakurako, but yeah I get it. She doesn't appear that often though, as far as I remember anyway

Maybe this new girl will try to flirt with Kasumi and this will lead to Sakurako and Kasumi to talk about their relationship? Maybe make Sakurako jealous? Or simply Kasumi will not notice anything?