We finally reached this point in the light novel, huh.

i really do like how this manga represents the awkward and bumbling feelings teens have. reading all that gave me extreme secondhand embarrassment though. and im glad shimamura reacted as she did. though a kinder 'i cant deal with this right now' would always be nice, how CAN you act nicely after that dump... sorry adachi but this gave me a massive ick

Can't help but notice all the used wads of tissue paper in her wastebasket.

I just wish there is someone there to hugged Adachi right now.

I don't think she'd let anyone but Shima that close to her, though.

I wish the anime got a second season... Akari Kitou would get to compensate for her role as Nezuko in Demon Slayer and then some.

It was as glorious as I hoped.

I love Adachi.

I'm just grateful that the author wasn't afraid to write scenes that show actual flawed MCs having genuine ''ugly'' moments like that. Adachi and Shimamura are both complex, imperfect young women and it's a rare thing in that medium.

This series honestly feels less Yuri and more psychological study of two people that desperately need therapy most of the time

So Shimamura lets Adachi ramble on for a long while without interjecting (or perhaps even listening), then says that one callous thing and ... hangs up. I realize Shimamura is likely annoyed or even freaked out by Adachi's massive breakdown (who wouldn't be), but I thought she liked Adachi enough to at least try to understand what the heck is going on. So something like "Hey, are you done? Can we talk for real now?" Or maybe "We'll talk later once you've calmed down a bit,." Those would still be very Shimamura-like responses and show that she has it together.

A level-headed Shimamura is fine with me. A heartless Shimamura... not so much.

So Shimamura lets Adachi ramble on for a long while without interjecting (or perhaps even listening), then says that one callous thing and ... hangs up. I realize Shimamura is likely annoyed or even freaked out by Adachi's massive breakdown (who wouldn't be), but I thought she liked Adachi enough to at least try to understand what the heck is going on. So something like "Hey, are you done? Can we talk for real now?" Or maybe "We'll talk later once you've calmed down a bit,." Those would still be very Shimamura-like responses and show that she has it together.

A level-headed Shimamura is fine with me. A heartless Shimamura... not so much.

The thing is, those two options would require Shimamura to actually address the issue of Adachi's breakdown, which is asking for a bit too much given her own difficulties with facing anything remotely complicated, hard to blame anyone here.

Still, it's one thing seeing it written, but reading that "What a pain" in manga form hurt. I understood Adachi's immediate need to puke afterwards.

The thing is, those two options would require Shimamura to actually address the issue of Adachi's breakdown, which is asking for a bit too much given her own difficulties with facing anything remotely complicated, hard to blame anyone here.

Well, if she really cares for the girl then, yeah, that's what she should have done. Sometimes you need to overcome your own unease in order to do the right thing.

Shimamura is also constantly being portrayed as even-minded and polite (perhaps to a fault), so her going "what a pain" to someone who is obviously hurting just comes across as completely out of character, especially considering who she's talking to. Shimamura went from mildly bewildered interest in Adachi to "don't give a f*ck" with just a few words, and that's just ... weird.

Still, it's one thing seeing it written, but reading that "What a pain" in manga form hurt. I understood Adachi's immediate need to puke afterwards.

In reality this would also be pretty much the end. I, for one, would never be able to trust someone who did that to me ever again. Heck, I dislike Shimamura enough now to stop reading this altogether.

In Shimamura's defense, she isn't all that close with Adachi yet at that point in the story. She's just not prepared for the onslaught of emotion that gets unleashed on her and from her point of view she didn't do anything wrong to warrant it in the first place. Add on top of that her natural go with the flow ditzy/lazy disposition and she's just left very confused about the whole thing. FWIW we later learn that she couldn't make out most of what she was saying anyway because Adachi was crying and yelling at the same time and not making much sense.

last edited at Sep 28, 2022 6:14PM

I don't think it really matters how close she was. Even if I barely knew someone, if they came sobbing to me like this, the only way I could ever say something so callous is if I was thinking "I hate this person and never want to speak to them again".

I just wish there is someone there to hugged Adachi right now.

I don't think she'd let anyone but Shima that close to her, though.

The point being, it would be nice if there was somebody close enough so as to give her a hug and that she would accept it.

I suppose a manga is really good if it makes different people hate one of the persons, but a different one to someone else, to the point they want to stop reading. I'm not sure if feelings of that much uncomfortable are a good thing for an artist to create, but it shows skill.

As an aside, I sometimes wonder about when people talk of "toxic" people and their thusly toxic relationships, in japanese manga - if it's just a western concept. Not the existence of those people, of course, but the idea that some people are "toxic" in behavior and that it's a bad thing for the reasons we give/know.
Some/many japanese people seem to unironically love and adore tsunderes and yanderes despite those being toxic people. Do any japanese readers of eg. this have the concept in the western sense that one or both of these characters are toxic and that the other/both should perhaps cut ties? Or do they just accept it and wait for them to fall in love?

This might not make any sense, but a lot of things people write in this site don't make any sense to me, so tit for tat.

last edited at Sep 28, 2022 4:01PM

I don't want that!

lets go we reached the infamous text

I must admit, some of the comments about Shima after this make me want to go through and read the manga version entirely cause it sounds like the manga doesn't really showcase Shima's inner dialog nearly as much as the Light Novel does. Her reaction to Adachi here, while admittedly extremely harsh, makes perfect sense for the way she is written in the Light Novel.

Admittedly, I could very possibly have a biased view since I do know what happens after this, along with other things the Light Novel touches on later about this moment. Not really a spoiler, but I feel odd talking about the LN even in such a vague way here so I covered it just to feel better.

It's here, the most painful scene in the LN TvT
It hurt to watch Adachi like this, I love how the manga captures her emotion in this scene.

In Shimamura's defense, she isn't all that close with Adachi yet at that point in the story. She's just not prepared for the onslaught of emotion that gets unleashed on her and from her point of view she didn't do anything wrong to warrant it in the first place. Add on top of that her natural go with the flow ditzy/lazy disposition and she's just left very confused about the whole thing. FWIW, we later learn that she couldn't make out most of what she was saying anyway because Adachi was crying and yelling at the same time and not making much sense.

mind tag your spoilers ?

I suppose a manga is really good if it makes different people hate one of the persons, but a different one to someone else, to the point they want to stop reading. I'm not sure if feelings of that much uncomfortable are a good thing for an artist to create, but it shows skill.

I disagree. The main problem I have with this story is that Adachi and Shimamura are clearly being made to behave in certain ways for dramatic effect, and not necessarily because it makes sense. Yes, Adachi was fascinated by Shimamura from the start, and it took quite a while to realize her own feelings. Shimamura, in turn, was always depicted as cautious, overly polite and somewhat baffled by the affection thrown her way by Adachi (and others). She never outright pushed Adachi away though, as she wondered about her own interest in that girl. It was subtle, sweet, sometimes heart-wrenching, but never dipped into straight-up melodrama.

Until now, that is. For some reason, the author deemed it fit to make have Adachi regress into a blubbering mess over Shimamura, and to turn Shimamura in a callous b*tch who just don't give a damn. None of this makes any sense within what was established about those two before, so what the heck happened?

Well, bad writing. That's what happened. My best guess is that the author simply has no clue how to prolong the subtle conflict and give any of the girls a convincing character arc. The "solution:" exaggerate the girls' personality traits the point of caricature. The result is a jarring mess that leaves me scratching my head, to say the least.

To summarize, Shimamura keeps indulging Adachi's wishes: want to hold hands? sure, want to sleep over? ok, want to spend christmas together? yes. It's all about Adachi's needs. And then Adachi, a troubled teenager, gets jealous and have a breakdown over the phone. Shimamura, another troubled teenager, gets fed up.

A positive point of this story is that the romantic interest of the main character is not a shining armor knight that puts up with everything the main character does, a regular trope in manga. Kudos to Shimamura for not getting a restraining order against Adachi right away. Shimimura is just a teenager to get all that load of angst put on her. Even if they were dating, it was too much. She is not obligated to like/love Adachi, she is not obligated to deal with Adachi's condition/trauma. Adachi created all that expectation in her own head. If you are in trouble, ask for help, don't expect people to notice you are in trouble. Honestly, It's about your well being, don't outsource it.

In Shimamura's defense, she isn't all that close with Adachi yet at that point in the story. She's just not prepared for the onslaught of emotion that gets unleashed on her and from her point of view she didn't do anything wrong to warrant it in the first place. Add on top of that her natural go with the flow ditzy/lazy disposition and she's just left very confused about the whole thing. FWIW, we later learn that she couldn't make out most of what she was saying anyway because Adachi was crying and yelling at the same time and not making much sense.

mind tag your spoilers ?

I tried being vague about it but sure, done,

I don't want that!

Shimamura hanging out with another girl? I want her to only hang out with me, for ten years at least!

I suppose a manga is really good if it makes different people hate one of the persons, but a different one to someone else, to the point they want to stop reading. I'm not sure if feelings of that much uncomfortable are a good thing for an artist to create, but it shows skill.

I disagree. The main problem I have with this story is that Adachi and Shimamura are clearly being made to behave in certain ways for dramatic effect, and not necessarily because it makes sense. Yes, Adachi was fascinated by Shimamura from the start, and it took quite a while to realize her own feelings. Shimamura, in turn, was always depicted as cautious, overly polite and somewhat baffled by the affection thrown her way by Adachi (and others). She never outright pushed Adachi away though, as she wondered about her own interest in that girl. It was subtle, sweet, sometimes heart-wrenching, but never dipped into straight-up melodrama.

Until now, that is. For some reason, the author deemed it fit to make have Adachi regress into a blubbering mess over Shimamura, and to turn Shimamura in a callous b*tch who just don't give a damn. None of this makes any sense within what was established about those two before, so what the heck happened?

Well, bad writing. That's what happened. My best guess is that the author simply has no clue how to prolong the subtle conflict and give any of the girls a convincing character arc. The "solution:" exaggerate the girls' personality traits the point of caricature. The result is a jarring mess that leaves me scratching my head, to say the least.

Bad writing would be not providing reasons, rooted in the characters lived experiences and personalities, for Adachi's breakdown nor Shimamura's response. These reasons are present in this work, and have been subtly and not so subtly hinted at since volume 1. Many other fourm posts cover these. Perhaps give them a read.

To both points above, strong emotional responses from readers is not indicative of good writing. The depth of character and world building are. Characters are fictional people, and all people have a reason behind their actions, even if it be unknown to the individual acting. The same is true of societies. And all worlds are based upon a core set of rules (i.e. Newtonian Laws). A good writer builds this into the story. This is, by the by, what divides hard science fiction & fantasy from simple scifi and fantasy. Jared Sanderson from Stephenie Meyer.

FWIW we later learn that she couldn't make out most of what she was saying anyway because Adachi was crying and yelling at the same time and not making much sense.

doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose

like

narratively

last edited at Sep 28, 2022 8:48PM