I don't know what to think of this one....

This is a: harsh inhale of air through teeth to a yabaaii moment right here

nop, good that I read the comments cuz I really don’t wanna read any more of this shit from this author, it make me feel like it’s ok for me to be sooo weird introverted and isolated from society to the point that I feeling like an alien, that is 1 billion % is better that being one of thous characters from this manga, yack

Good ol' Kodama

Classic Naoko

last edited at Aug 31, 2021 9:49PM

Nice as usual, pretty smooth sailing this one, suspected as such since there was only a drama tag and not an aaaaaaangst one

Come for thorny yuri. Instead, learn more about what college guys/gals want and how life is harsh in the big city.
Kinda likes koko x sherry from zatch bell.

last edited at Aug 31, 2021 10:14PM

Good ol' Kodama Naoko. I thought this was pretty entertaining. These aren't bad people so much as immature, and the way things stand at the end, they're perfect for each other (that doesn't mean they're good for each other). Kodama has a lane and she doesn't stray very far from it and I respect her for that.

Reading this story made me think of that song "What Keeps Mankind Alive" (and I guess the Threepenny Opera in general): when you're well-fed and comfortable, you can afford qualms and morals that the starving and destitute cannot.

Ayaka is defined by her hard work in her attempts to better her material position. She's applying the same effort to finding a wealthy man as she is in school and in her actual job (her self-help dating guides are right next to her pile of economics textbooks). To her, the three things are all part of her goal of leaving poverty behind. But Mitsuki sees Ayaka openly using sex appeal for material gain, a bourgeois taboo, and judges her very harshly. She never even considers that Ayaka's situation might be different than her own, and certainly never tries to put herself in Ayaka's position and see things from her point of view.

Also, I think it's interesting that Ayaka decides to cut Mitsuki out of her life after spending the night at her house. She meets Mitsuki's doting mother, eats Mitsuki's delicious food, and sees Mitsuki's spacious and comfortable home, all the while comparing Mitsuki's good fortune to her own poverty. And then at the end of the night, Mitsuki rubs it in. Mitsuki isn't interested in guys because she doesn't have to be. She says she's just going along with Ayaka for fun. For Ayaka, it's not fun, it's work. Ayaka can't afford to be uninterested in guys. Going to these parties and forcing herself to get along with assholes so that she can find a rich man to marry is like a second job for her. I think Mitsuki's response here insults her, and perhaps this is when she realizes or begins to suspect Mitsuki's contempt for her.

Reading this story made me think of that song "What Keeps Mankind Alive" (and I guess the Threepenny Opera in general): when you're well-fed and comfortable, you can afford qualms and morals that the starving and destitute cannot.

Ayaka is defined by her hard work in her attempts to better her material position. She's applying the same effort to finding a wealthy man as she is in school and in her actual job (her self-help dating guides are right next to her pile of economics textbooks). To her, the three things are all part of her goal of leaving poverty behind. But Mitsuki sees Ayaka openly using sex appeal for material gain, a bourgeois taboo, and judges her very harshly. She never even considers that Ayaka's situation might be different than her own, and certainly never tries to put herself in Ayaka's position and see things from her point of view.

Also, I think it's interesting that Ayaka decides to cut Mitsuki out of her life after spending the night at her house. She meets Mitsuki's doting mother, eats Mitsuki's delicious food, and sees Mitsuki's spacious and comfortable home, all the while comparing Mitsuki's good fortune to her own poverty. And then at the end of the night, Mitsuki rubs it in. Mitsuki isn't interested in guys because she doesn't have to be. She says she's just going along with Ayaka for fun. For Ayaka, it's not fun, it's work. Ayaka can't afford to be uninterested in guys. Going to these parties and forcing herself to get along with assholes so that she can find a rich man to marry is like a second job for her. I think Mitsuki's response here insults her, and perhaps this is when she realizes or begins to suspect Mitsuki's contempt for her.

couldn't have said it better. thank you, i was trying to explain it on my own but im no good with words as i talk to myself

I can't be the only one who come to the discussion page before reading Kodama sensei's works right?
I really, really like their artwork, so I'd really like to see more wholesome, cute stories from them instead of all this drama BS

Reading this story made me think of that song "What Keeps Mankind Alive" (and I guess the Threepenny Opera in general): when you're well-fed and comfortable, you can afford qualms and morals that the starving and destitute cannot.

Ayaka is defined by her hard work in her attempts to better her material position. She's applying the same effort to finding a wealthy man as she is in school and in her actual job (her self-help dating guides are right next to her pile of economics textbooks). To her, the three things are all part of her goal of leaving poverty behind. But Mitsuki sees Ayaka openly using sex appeal for material gain, a bourgeois taboo, and judges her very harshly. She never even considers that Ayaka's situation might be different than her own, and certainly never tries to put herself in Ayaka's position and see things from her point of view.

Also, I think it's interesting that Ayaka decides to cut Mitsuki out of her life after spending the night at her house. She meets Mitsuki's doting mother, eats Mitsuki's delicious food, and sees Mitsuki's spacious and comfortable home, all the while comparing Mitsuki's good fortune to her own poverty. And then at the end of the night, Mitsuki rubs it in. Mitsuki isn't interested in guys because she doesn't have to be. She says she's just going along with Ayaka for fun. For Ayaka, it's not fun, it's work. Ayaka can't afford to be uninterested in guys. Going to these parties and forcing herself to get along with assholes so that she can find a rich man to marry is like a second job for her. I think Mitsuki's response here insults her, and perhaps this is when she realizes or begins to suspect Mitsuki's contempt for her.

Thanks, this really helped me understand what was going on in much greater depth. It's really telling that Mitsuki's opinion of Ayaka doesn't seem to change once she has context for what she's been doing. The last line really stings with that in mind.

It's interesting re-reading the story with that context. Ayaka seems to see their connection as something like partners in crime or co-conspirators, and she clearly has some standards for how she governs her pursuing of men. Mitsuki, meanwhile, doesn't understand this, and sees her as a friend with an attitude towards dating that she disdains. When Mitsuki disguises her affections by acting like someone who just thinks flirting is fun, it's like you say--it hurts Ayaka, and she pulls back. It makes me wonder how things would have gone if Mitsuki was honest that she did it because she wanted to spend time with Ayaka. I feel like that would have really changed the context of Ayaka learning definitively that she isn't serious about pursuing guys--like, she knows they're not in the same situation, but maybe they can be friends in different places supporting each other. It's cool to see someone being dishonest about their feelings punished this harshly in a manga.

One part I still don't get though is what happened in that whole scene after the big reveal. What does she mean by, "so that's the kind of girl you are"? Is Ayaka blushing because Mitsuki is turning her on, or is she ashamed because she's being pushed to present information she doesn't want to in an effort to protect herself? Is this kind of a complex cute moment between them, or like hella non-con?

so what the fuck

Idk why but I love reading stories about shitty people

Thanks, this really helped me understand what was going on in much greater depth. It's really telling that Mitsuki's opinion of Ayaka doesn't seem to change once she has context for what she's been doing. The last line really stings with that in mind.

It's interesting re-reading the story with that context. Ayaka seems to see their connection as something like partners in crime or co-conspirators, and she clearly has some standards for how she governs her pursuing of men. Mitsuki, meanwhile, doesn't understand this, and sees her as a friend with an attitude towards dating that she disdains. When Mitsuki disguises her affections by acting like someone who just thinks flirting is fun, it's like you say--it hurts Ayaka, and she pulls back. It makes me wonder how things would have gone if Mitsuki was honest that she did it because she wanted to spend time with Ayaka. I feel like that would have really changed the context of Ayaka learning definitively that she isn't serious about pursuing guys--like, she knows they're not in the same situation, but maybe they can be friends in different places supporting each other. It's cool to see someone being dishonest about their feelings punished this harshly in a manga.

One part I still don't get though is what happened in that whole scene after the big reveal. What does she mean by, "so that's the kind of girl you are"? Is Ayaka blushing because Mitsuki is turning her on, or is she ashamed because she's being pushed to present information she doesn't want to in an effort to protect herself? Is this kind of a complex cute moment between them, or like hella non-con?

I do think Mitsuki's opinion changes somewhat by the end. Look at how she's saying it, with a big grin on her face. Even if she still thinks that, the emotions surrounding it are different. Some of her disgust towards Ayaka was probably jealousy: she didn't like seeing the woman she loved chasing after men. Now that she knows that Ayaka wasn't having sex with them (and now that she herself has taken Ayaka's virginity), she's no longer jealous. And maybe it's also her way of saying that she understands what kind of person Ayaka is better, and realizes that's part of what she loves about her? It is the first time she's actually said it out loud to Ayaka, instead of just thinking it to herself. It's a very strange thing to say to the person you love after your first time having sex. But it does feel like a very fitting ending to this story.

I also wonder about that part where Mitsuki lies to her. I do think Ayaka is upset mainly for the reason I said before, but maybe this is also mean to indicate that, consciously or not, Ayaka is aware of Mituski's feelings and returns them? There was a lot of emphasis on the way Ayaka keeps touching Mitsuki leading up to this. So perhaps she wanted to hear Mitsuki say it, and was disappointed when she lied instead.

As for whether it's rape, I personally think that the art and story indicate that Ayaka is into it? My interpretation is that she's blushing partly out of shock, partly because she's embarrassed at revealing that she's actually a virgin despite her posturing, and partly because she's turned on. I think especially her expression on page 245 indicates that she's into it by that point. But the whole situation definitely feels more than a little rapey. And the part where they actually get undressed and have sex is left to the imagination, so maybe it's meant to be ambiguous?

well for a kodama naoko's work,i didn't find the characters that horrible. and even MC i didn't find her that rotten. okay she have terrible opinion about her friend and all but in the end her actions are totally different from what she thinks.i think a real rotten person would have just ignore ayaka's drunk call in the middle of the night instead of going to help her. the only thing i can really NOT appreciate is how she tried to force herself on ayaka. that was low.

last edited at Sep 1, 2021 12:34AM

I dunno man. Being penniless really sucks. Often a death sentence for people with conditions. I cant blame her for feeling resentment.

I'm completely fucking wasted rn. Anyone care to explain to me why's blond girl bad to me? She seems kinda fine just in love with a gold digger

Having sex with someone shitfaced drunk, without any pre-existing consent, a virgin no less, is considered pretty rapey these days.

I don't know how to post images on here. Can someone crop out that "I'm your daddy now?" and put it in here so I can quote it? Lmao. Gold.

Damn, I like this bitter plot with characters that are also bitter, the kiss steal part was so great.

I'm completely fucking wasted rn. Anyone care to explain to me why's blond girl bad to me? She seems kinda fine just in love with a gold digger

Having sex with someone shitfaced drunk, without any pre-existing consent, a virgin no less, is considered pretty rapey these days.

That's not even a little rapey, it's straight up rape in any real world context, but it's a manga, a one shot at that so it definitely could be worse, especially from Kodama.

Also, I think some of y'all are being too kind to this Ayaka, her actions and attitude may be understandable, but that doesn't make them okay.

last edited at Sep 1, 2021 1:38AM

I'm completely fucking wasted rn. Anyone care to explain to me why's blond girl bad to me? She seems kinda fine just in love with a gold digger

Having sex with someone shitfaced drunk, without any pre-existing consent, a virgin no less, is considered pretty rapey these days.

That's not even a little rapey, it's straight up rape in any real world context, but it's a manga, a one shot at that so it definitely could be worse, especially from Kodama.

Also, I think some of y'all are being too kind to this Ayaka, her actions and attitude may be understandable, but that doesn't make them okay.

To be fair, she does seem to have sobered up by the time they arrived at her place.

I do think Mitsuki's opinion changes somewhat by the end. Look at how she's saying it, with a big grin on her face. Even if she still thinks that, the emotions surrounding it are different. Some of her disgust towards Ayaka was probably jealousy: she didn't like seeing the woman she loved chasing after men. Now that she knows that Ayaka wasn't having sex with them (and now that she herself has taken Ayaka's virginity), she's no longer jealous. And maybe it's also her way of saying that she understands what kind of person Ayaka is better, and realizes that's part of what she loves about her? It is the first time she's actually said it out loud to Ayaka, instead of just thinking it to herself. It's a very strange thing to say to the person you love after your first time having sex. But it does feel like a very fitting ending to this story.

I also wonder about that part where Mitsuki lies to her. I do think Ayaka is upset mainly for the reason I said before, but maybe this is also mean to indicate that, consciously or not, Ayaka is aware of Mituski's feelings and returns them? There was a lot of emphasis on the way Ayaka keeps touching Mitsuki leading up to this. So perhaps she wanted to hear Mitsuki say it, and was disappointed when she lied instead.

As for whether it's rape, I personally think that the art and story indicate that Ayaka is into it? My interpretation is that she's blushing partly out of shock, partly because she's embarrassed at revealing that she's actually a virgin despite her posturing, and partly because she's turned on. I think especially her expression on page 245 indicates that she's into it by that point. But the whole situation definitely feels more than a little rapey. And the part where they actually get undressed and have sex is left to the imagination, so maybe it's meant to be ambiguous?

I do think Kodama made Ayaka a little bit more twisted than what you've written so far suggests. It's kinda subtle, but it's certainly there. On page 244 Ayaka says "Seeing how many I can string along without having sex is a way to prove my skill...", which is kinda messed up? She's not just stringing along 17 guys because it's good to cast a wide net and have options, she's an overachiever who's putting in 110%. She is actually doing it because she derives a kind of... academic pleasure? From her success.

On another note, this oneshot reminds me of a song by KiNG MALA called "She calls me daddy". It may as well be a fanfiction continuation of this story.

last edited at Sep 1, 2021 1:48AM

I'm completely fucking wasted rn. Anyone care to explain to me why's blond girl bad to me? She seems kinda fine just in love with a gold digger

Having sex with someone shitfaced drunk, without any pre-existing consent, a virgin no less, is considered pretty rapey these days.

That's not even a little rapey, it's straight up rape in any real world context, but it's a manga, a one shot at that so it definitely could be worse, especially from Kodama.

Also, I think some of y'all are being too kind to this Ayaka, her actions and attitude may be understandable, but that doesn't make them okay.

What's not okay about Ayaka's actions? She's not hurting anyone.

I don't know how to post images on here. Can someone crop out that "I'm your daddy now?" and put it in here so I can quote it? Lmao. Gold.

Reading this story made me think of that song "What Keeps Mankind Alive" (and I guess the Threepenny Opera in general): when you're well-fed and comfortable, you can afford qualms and morals that the starving and destitute cannot.

Ayaka is defined by her hard work in her attempts to better her material position. She's applying the same effort to finding a wealthy man as she is in school and in her actual job (her self-help dating guides are right next to her pile of economics textbooks). To her, the three things are all part of her goal of leaving poverty behind. But Mitsuki sees Ayaka openly using sex appeal for material gain, a bourgeois taboo, and judges her very harshly. She never even considers that Ayaka's situation might be different than her own, and certainly never tries to put herself in Ayaka's position and see things from her point of view.

Also, I think it's interesting that Ayaka decides to cut Mitsuki out of her life after spending the night at her house. She meets Mitsuki's doting mother, eats Mitsuki's delicious food, and sees Mitsuki's spacious and comfortable home, all the while comparing Mitsuki's good fortune to her own poverty. And then at the end of the night, Mitsuki rubs it in. Mitsuki isn't interested in guys because she doesn't have to be. She says she's just going along with Ayaka for fun. For Ayaka, it's not fun, it's work. Ayaka can't afford to be uninterested in guys. Going to these parties and forcing herself to get along with assholes so that she can find a rich man to marry is like a second job for her. I think Mitsuki's response here insults her, and perhaps this is when she realizes or begins to suspect Mitsuki's contempt for her.

I doubt there are many people in the forum like you who can accurately find the points in common between Die Dreigroschenoper and this manga. Color me impressed. I would quote here the "a person of culture as well" meme if it hadn't been overused to death, haha.

I think your interpretation is spot on. It's kind of tragic how Mitsuki is persuaded she has maneuvered things so well and scored some good points with Ayaka by taking her home for dinner and a sleepover, when in fact that night she has mocked and insulted Ayaka without even realizing it -- and even made her decide to cut all ties with Mitsuki. Thank goodness for a happy ending (to some extent, at least) where Mitsuki starts to savvy the errors in her judgment and the problems with her prejudices.

last edited at Sep 1, 2021 11:07AM