Forum › Pretender discussion

joined Jun 13, 2020

kodama got soft on this one, they're not really terrible
outside of the guy's thing, ayaka is just a poor girl trying everything she can just to not live miserable
mc is... well, i have seen worse

Agreed. Ayaka strikes me as someone doing a shitty thing, but not really a shitty person.

If not for the assault at the end, the mc would just be rather bland

last edited at Sep 1, 2021 4:42PM

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

I'm fairly sure Kodama wrote in an afterword or something somewhere that she likes writing terrible people

She actually wrote, "The more soap opera-like the better!" once, which is even funnier lol

And it really helped me forgive that manga for its horrible characters that I hated... Not gonna read it again tho XD

I don't think that's the afterword they were refering to. It's most likely this one. But Kodama doesn't exactly make a secret of her tastes, so she probably wrote about them elsewhere as well.

C2731dea4191b182ecd8f18498562a84
joined Sep 1, 2017

Classic Kodama..

But how are you guys saying Mitsuki is horrible too? If we'll base on "Kodama" standard, then Mc is still normal.

She is not horrible, people are just tend to be over sensitive (PC bullshit and such). I loved these characters, and Mitsuki is absolutely relatable. "Anaerobic Love" remains my favourite from Kodama, but this is very good too!

I know the PC police culture can get pretty toxic, but a sober person pushing themselves on a reluctant drunk person is pretty bad. You might debate if it rises to a level of a sex offence, or not, but you have to admit it's a dick move.

schuyguy Uploader
Imura%20ei%20music%20concert%20face
Yuri Project
joined Jul 14, 2016

I doubt there are many people in the forum like you who can accurately find the points in common between Die Dreigroschenoper and this manga. Color me impressed. I would quote here the "a person of culture as well" meme if it hadn't been overused to death, haha.

I think your interpretation is spot on. It's kind of tragic how Mitsuki is persuaded she has maneuvered things so well and scored some good points with Ayaka by taking her home for dinner and a sleepover, when in fact that night she has mocked and insulted Ayaka without even realizing it -- and even made her decide to cut all ties with Mitsuki. Thank goodness for a happy ending (to some extent, at least) where Mitsuki starts to savvy the errors in her judgment and the problems with her prejudices.

I'm probably just the only one willing to make an ass of myself by making such a comparison, haha. It's a bit of a stretch, but I've been listening to Tom Waits recently so his version of "What Keeps Mankind Alive" was on my mind.
And yeah, I think it's kind of funny how little Mitsuki understands Ayaka. The ending is so abrupt that it's hard to tell if she ever does understand her, but I think the combination of seeing Ayaka's room, being called out, and also learning how shy Ayaka really is maybe starts to get through to her.

I must also say that I don't see how "Mitsuki isn't interested in guys because she doesn't have to be." It's pretty clear that Mitsuki isn't interested in guys because she's interested in girls, which is not usually an indicator of unacknowledged privilege.

Based on how angry she gets about it, and that she says she's jealous Mitsuki can say she's not interested in men, I think Ayaka's probably a lesbian as well. Ayaka says that even if she's not interested in a guy, if he has something she needs, she forces herself to pretend to be interested. To her, not being interested in men is a luxury she cannot afford. It's not that being a lesbian is a privilege, it's that being able to follow your heart is a privilege.

RadiosAreObsolete
Img_20210321_022239%20(2)
joined Mar 6, 2021

I'm fairly sure Kodama wrote in an afterword or something somewhere that she likes writing terrible people

She actually wrote, "The more soap opera-like the better!" once, which is even funnier lol

And it really helped me forgive that manga for its horrible characters that I hated... Not gonna read it again tho XD

I don't think that's the afterword they were refering to. It's most likely this one. But Kodama doesn't exactly make a secret of her tastes, so she probably wrote about them elsewhere as well.

Oh yeah, she's definitely said things like that more than once... I was just saying that she once referred to her work as "soap opera drama", and I thought it was funny how self-aware she was.

Also, I just skimmed through the epilogue you linked and can I just say,
"I want to keep on drawing all sorts of yuri"
*Proceeds to make a dozen more cute girls with naturally bad personalities*

(I'm only kidding, she has actually made different kinds of stories)

Img_8812564559060
joined Oct 6, 2015

Very Kodama. Her works are my guilty pleasure. Lol

mmm is this real life? :D

Gatchaman%20hajime
joined Dec 3, 2016

Non-consensual girl-on-girl sex is still rape, you know.

Screenshot_39
joined Apr 17, 2017

I just love Kodama Naoko-sensei so so much...

Screenshot_3
joined Jun 24, 2021

nothing gained, nothing lost

Image
joined Dec 9, 2015

What the hell is up with these people complaining about the non-existent "rape" in the story? Do you think rape victims would actually be casually chatting with the rapist afterwards like that or something? Even the characters themselves are like "we had completely normal sex, nobody was traumatized or anything", but the commenters here must insist every few posts that "NO, GIRL, OBVIOUSLY you were raped because that's how I see it" ¯_( ͠° ͟ʖ °͠ )_/¯

last edited at Sep 2, 2021 8:29AM

Kiarabg
joined Sep 6, 2018

Do you think rape victims would actually be casually chatting with the rapist afterwards like that or something?

In a Kodama Naoko story, can I see someone having dead-eyed pillow talk with the person they just received emotionally violent sex from? Absolutely. It's a legitimate question of tone. Non-consensual sex doesn't just look one way. And this author loves depicting complex, painful emotions or relations between people.

46-75
joined Jun 25, 2019

What the hell is up with these people complaining about the non-existent "rape" in the story? Do you think rape victims would actually be casually chatting with the rapist afterwards like that or something? Even the characters themselves are like "we had completely normal sex, nobody was traumatized or anything", but the commenters here must insist every few posts that "NO, GIRL, OBVIOUSLY you were raped because that's how I see it" ¯_( ͠° ͟ʖ °͠ )_/¯

Everytime there is drunk sex, there is a commetn about consent. Honestly the problem with that is that every manga/doujin/os with Drunk and NSFW could fir in that description.

Zzzz
joined Nov 18, 2019

Daddy indeed

Charon-sml
joined Feb 14, 2016

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/pretender#37

"marketing majors am I right guys"

Jahy-sama%20(11)
joined Jul 5, 2017

Hahahahaha Kodama really drove in her taste for horrible, cute women with how many times she mentioned it in this one. It was fun.

This is true. Idk, no matter what people say about her works I always find myself digging for more. She really grow in me haha

The thing is, Kodama is such a controversial mangaka that it almost pulls you in to her works. But yeah, she herself has admitted that she likes the toxic plots and characters in her works and purposefully leaves her story endings as such.

joined Aug 20, 2021

uwaaahhh hooking up with 17 boys.... no wonder she always got tired, all that sex and date must be really tiring. idk why everyone seeing this as good story but what i see just a cheap trick using "sentence of : nerver have sex" and "sex between woman in ending" for yuri lover.

Ezgif.com-gif-maker%20(1)
joined Jun 6, 2020

this slides definitely more to married my best friend territory in comparison to how dark she can get

(y)
joined Jan 9, 2017

uwaaahhh hooking up with 17 boys.... no wonder she always got tired, all that sex and date must be really tiring.

She said she hadnt had sex with any of them

joined Jan 3, 2015

Idk but It reminds me of gunjo alot

9a905fe6a22b0201f7ade2de48a73f8d
joined Jan 22, 2014

What the hell is up with these people complaining about the non-existent "rape" in the story? Do you think rape victims would actually be casually chatting with the rapist afterwards like that or something? Even the characters themselves are like "we had completely normal sex, nobody was traumatized or anything", but the commenters here must insist every few posts that "NO, GIRL, OBVIOUSLY you were raped because that's how I see it" ¯_( ͠° ͟ʖ °͠ )_/¯

Everytime there is drunk sex, there is a commetn about consent. Honestly the problem with that is that every manga/doujin/os with Drunk and NSFW could fir in that description.

It some king of PC bull, no need to pay attention to it. Also just FYI, drunk sex isn't rape, if she gets drunk and makes a mistake, that's it. (Unless, you know, she's unconscious drunk. There are limits to everything.) You don't get to blame your mistakes onto others, by the magic of alcohol. Just like drunken driving, its still your responsibility.

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

What the hell is up with these people complaining about the non-existent "rape" in the story? Do you think rape victims would actually be casually chatting with the rapist afterwards like that or something? Even the characters themselves are like "we had completely normal sex, nobody was traumatized or anything", but the commenters here must insist every few posts that "NO, GIRL, OBVIOUSLY you were raped because that's how I see it" ¯_( ͠° ͟ʖ °͠ )_/¯

Everytime there is drunk sex, there is a commetn about consent. Honestly the problem with that is that every manga/doujin/os with Drunk and NSFW could fir in that description.

It some king of PC bull, no need to pay attention to it. Also just FYI, drunk sex isn't rape, if she gets drunk and makes a mistake, that's it. (Unless, you know, she's unconscious drunk. There are limits to everything.) You don't get to blame your mistakes onto others, by the magic of alcohol. Just like drunken driving, its still your responsibility.

Your simile doesn't work. A drunk person can't consent, and a sober person should know better than to make advances on them. If someone realized that you had sex with them when they couldn't consent, it's rape, yes. That's how it works in the real world, even in my country, which isn't some kind of women's rights paradise.

Rsz_1screenshot_2021-08-18_at_11-24-04_the_idolmaster_cinderella_girls_fr%c3%a9d%c3%a9rica_miyamoto_shiki_ichinose_%e3%83%ac%e3%82%a4%e3%82%b8%e3%83%bc%e3%83%ac%e3%82%a4%e3%82%b8%e3%83%bc_-_pixiv
joined Apr 25, 2018

Very wholesome, for Kodama.

Alcoholism
joined Apr 15, 2017

Oh yes daddy.

Avatar2
joined Sep 13, 2018

she should have told her to marry her.
It goes to my favorites

To reply you must either login or sign up.