This manga is just becoming so pathetic. I feel like the mangaka weaved this giant web of emotions and no longer knows how to unweave it. Its so damn sloppy. The kids act like adults and the adults act like whiny emo children. Its really sad.

People make a bad reading of the return from uta, the author makes people think we're back to square one, but it's just a decoy...
She came back, they got back in touch, kaoru admits to uta that their couple is losing it and that since uta left, she feels lonely...
Anyway, as soon as uta will go back to her parents, kaoru will have to make some decisions and really ask to reichi what he really thinks.
A little more patience.

FUCKING

USELESS (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Perhaps a bit optimistic, but it seems as though Kaoru has finally shown some maturity - accepting her neglect of her relationship; however, in the short it has come at the cost of dragging Uta backwards. I wasn't really expecting a happy scene out of this event, but what a way to put a damper on things.

Am I the only one who wants to learn more about Risako?

Perhaps a bit optimistic, but it seems as though Kaoru has finally shown some maturity - accepting her neglect of her relationship; however, in the short it has come at the cost of dragging Uta backwards. I wasn't really expecting a happy scene out of this event, but what a way to put a damper on things.

Am I the only one who wants to learn more about Risako?

No, I also want to know more and I think that the author did not show us everything far away and that it will not stay as it is.
Risako is a key character for the story's outcome, is she in love with kaoru? with reicchi? with both? or is she a pest without knowing it ?
For the moment we find ourselves with the reconciliation between kaoru and uta which was the first big step, the next one is risako and reicchi.

So you deny the existence of "emotional infidelity"?

It looks a lot like it could be emotional infidelity, but by that measure Kaoru has been cheating on Reiichi with Uta for years (and now she knows about Uta's feelings, and is confiding more, it is a lot less deniable).

I don't think that Reiichi is definitely cheating, even at the emotional infidelity level - he may have had an entirely innocent reason for being with Risako, but he is even worse than Kaoru for conflict avoidance, so he may have decided to lie about it to avoid any awkwardness, telling himself he is doing it for Kaoru's benefit.

Look at all those times when they were at school and he made up ridiculous excuses to avoid having to deal with Kaoru's confessions (we don't know for sure, but it was implied by Risako, and Kaoru seemed to accept it was likely).

The times more recently where Kaoru has psyched her self up to talk about their marriage, and he has let her drop the topic or even actively encouraged her.

In contrast, when Kaoru made up her mind to clarify things with Uta, Uta saw what she was doing and helped by gently pushing when Kaoru lost her nerve at the last minute.

We could say that of course Uta wanted to communicate her feelings to Kaoru, while Reiichi doesn't want to talk seriously about his marriage... but that is the problem really.

Building further on the theme - Reiichi seems to go even beyond conflict avoidance, to even patronising/infantalising Kaoru.

When Kaoru offered to help Reiichi with his parents, he completely shut her out. When Kaoru offered to call them Uta thanked her (and kept her reservations to herself).

He swooped in to "rescue" Kaoru when she was in a really bad place, but his emotional absence and dismissiveness (over protectiveness?) has left her in an uncertain emotional limbo, where she hasn't really had a chance to grow or heal.

Uta is forcing Kaoru to see her as an adult, and in the process is also treating Kaoru as an adult (which Kaoru doesn't get enough of). Uta is trying to establish a mature distance, but ironically having Kaoru see her as a peer is bringing them closer (no longer just seeing Uta as a comfort tool, or as a little sister to have fun with, but engaging with her and confiding in her).

I think part of Kaoru's insurmountable fears about risking her marriage by asking questions have been grounded in seeing Uta as part of it, an indivisible part of the family unit she would lose if it goes wrong. Uta has now started to establish their relationship as something outside that, I think that maybe on an emotional level Kaoru is starting to toy with the idea that losing her marriage might not mean losing Uta, making asking the hard questions a bit less unthinkable.

I suppose it sounds bad, but I also think the last scene may be a sign that Kaoru is beginning to actually like the idea that Uta is in love with her, not in a vain or selfish way, but as a comfort that someone who has seen her at her worst still thinks that she is worthy of that much love, that it is safe for her to be herself.

So you deny the existence of "emotional infidelity"?

It looks a lot like it could be emotional infidelity, but by that measure Kaoru has been cheating on Reiichi with Uta for years (and now she knows about Uta's feelings, and is confiding more, it is a lot less deniable).

I grant that "cheating" in regard to that example is a stretch, but one component of the "infidelity" concept is that one person in a relationship invests emotional energy and intimacy in an outside person that the person's partner would want to have invested in them.

That's at best an open question in regard to Reiichi's feelings about Kaoru--i.e., Kaoru obviously wants more from Reiichi, but it's not at all clear he wants any more emotional intimacy from her.

On the other hand, it is very clear in the opening chapters that Reiichi actually depends on Uta being there for Kaoru, quite literally when he calls for a "player switch" when Kaoru is sleeping on his shoulder.

last edited at May 2, 2020 11:10PM

I wish Tmnr make Kaoru more than a sobbing blob

She's been quivering at the point of becoming something else several times.

Hasn't happened yet, though.

She helped Uta when things where bad with her parents, she was seemed to have no problem with her part time job, and has even started her own successful business.

Unfortunately when she is having one of her anxiety spirals, "sobbing blob" is how she sees herself, and so she feels too ashamed/worthless to ask for help when she needs it (except from Uta who knows her "secret weakness").

Kaoru's character is actually pretty realistic, I suspect tmnr may have experience with someone who suffers from that sort of anxiety irl.

Uta: (thinking) Huh, she sure does go along with whatever's easiest, and she's basically screaming for help about that. I should be careful not to give her an out where she just falls back into old patterns.

Uta: (speaking) I think you'll love my brother and be happy living here with him forever!

Maybe I'm just being dense today, but I really don't know what in the hell is going on in that scene.

After the "it's no big deal" part, and through the whole time Kaoru is actually unburdening herself, Uta seems to be leading up to some kind of "go for it--be honest with Reiichi so you can move on with your life" advice crescendo. Then:

"Try to do what you can for now." What does that even mean?

If this were an entirely different kind of series, I'd almost think Uta was saying, "What a relief it wasn't my fault you were suffering--now fuck off with my cheating brother and leave me alone."

That's a bit too much to hope for, though, I'm almost positive.

I think Uta is very distracted by the possibility her feelings have messed things up for Kaoru (and her brother). It seems like once Kaoru starts talking about being suffocated, Uta really just cares about making sure it wasn't her crush that was causing it, so she misses what Kaoru was actually talking about. She kinda goes on "advice autopilot."

Not that she's not a million times more mature than Kaoru, but if that is true, it's nice to see Uta not being perfect.

last edited at May 2, 2020 11:37PM

I wish Tmnr make Kaoru more than a sobbing blob

She's been quivering at the point of becoming something else several times.

Hasn't happened yet, though.

She helped Uta when things where bad with her parents, she was seemed to have no problem with her part time job, and has even started her own successful business.

True enough, although I think it’s pretty clear that the point was about her relationships with the other main characters—we haven’t seen her being competent at or in control of pretty much anything for some time now.

"Try to do what you can for now." What does that even mean?

Fixating on final/perfectionist goals is actually a major avoidance strategy. "Try to do what you can" is actually really good advice for someone with anxiety.

It seems like once Kaoru starts talking about being suffocated, Uta really just cares about making sure it wasn't her crush that was causing it, so she misses what Kaoru was actually talking about. She kinda goes on "advice autopilot."

Now that I think about it, I can’t think of any situation where, “Try to do what you can for now” would actually be bad advice.

Not so incredibly helpful, though, either.

I love this. Although honestly, I can't think of a single ending for this story that would leave me satisfied.

So you deny the existence of "emotional infidelity"?

It looks a lot like it could be emotional infidelity, but by that measure Kaoru has been cheating on Reiichi with Uta for years (and now she knows about Uta's feelings, and is confiding more, it is a lot less deniable).

I grant that "cheating" in regard to that example is a stretch, but one component of the "infidelity" concept is that one person in a relationship invests emotional energy and intimacy in an outside person that the person's partner would want to have invested in them.

That's at best an open question in regard to Reiichi's feelings about Kaoru--i.e., Kaoru obviously wants more from Reiichi, but it's not at all clear he wants any more emotional intimacy from her.

On the other hand, it is very clear in the opening chapters that Reiichi actually depends on Uta being there for Kaoru, quite literally when he calls for a "player switch" when Kaoru is sleeping on his shoulder.

Hmm blessing from Reiichi... polyamory, I don't think I've see that suggestion for an endgame before. Though I have to admit I consider one of the strongest arguments in favour of Kaoru x Uta endgame is that it seems like Reiichi wouldn't mind, and might even be grateful for Uta taking Kaoru off his hands (and he is the only family either of them care about, so that sort of covers a lot of the "would tear the family apart" issue).

But you are right Reiichi has previously seemed pretty chill about outsourcing his emotional duties to Uta, so their previous intimacy wasn't particularly illicit. One of the reasons I mentioned "less deniable" recently is that he might not be quite so chill if he knew Uta wants to jump Kaoru's bones, Kaoru knows it, and upped the ante by confiding her doubts about their marriage and sleeping beside Uta in full knowledge of her desires... kind of getting outside the "supportive sister" level he was prepared to exploit/implicitly endorsed.

Uta echoed my thought perfectly with that last line.

I don't think there's any chance of Kaoru and Uta being the endgame couple. As the "title" suggest, the plot is more about Uta dealing with her "unrequited love" for Kaoru. It's as straightforward as it can be.

It's just insufferable and frustrating at the same time to see Uta be dragged down into this rabbit hole.

As the "title" suggest, the plot is more about Uta dealing with her "unrequited love" for Kaoru. It's as straightforward as it can be.

More than one reader will tell you that it’s quite foolish to think of Uta as the main character/protagonist of this story.

I am not among them.

A fantasy of mine: Koaru would just snap, realize she's gay or at least bi and then jump Uta's bones. Just raw sex. Then have Risako come over so she could learn a thing or two about emotions and have her nether regions stirred properly. I'm still deciding though who tops whom and who gets "sandwiched".

I'm sorry. Kaoru's treatment of Uta is just so frustrating that my brain went rogue.

Now.... FRICK!?

A fantasy of mine: Koaru would just snap, realize she's gay or at least bi and then jump Uta's bones. Just raw sex. Then have Risako come over so she could learn a thing or two about emotions and have her nether regions stirred properly. I'm still deciding though who tops whom and who gets "sandwiched".

I'm sorry. Kaoru's treatment of Uta is just so frustrating that my brain went rogue.

Quite understandable. Many readers, I believe, from the very beginning expected that the story would entail Kaoru’s growing awareness of a non-straight sexuality and a transformation of her relationship with Uta into a romantic one (let us call that the Happy Yuri Ending Option).

In the alternative, the story might have developed so as to be about Kaoru’s struggle to negotiate her non-romantic affection for Uta and the dilemma caused by Uta’s romantic feelings for her (let us call that the Realistic Bittersweet Non-Yuri Ending Option).

What I for one certainly did not anticipate was the story developing into Kaoru flopping around like a gaffed fish because of her Ambiguously Cheating Non-Entity of a Husband and Uta being relegated to Kaoru’s security blanket/doormat.

At this point “Kaoru snaps gay” may be a top 5 Most Reasonable Outcome.

I can attest that "emotional infidelity" does not only exists in theory, it's something a lot of people do.

It often happens that two people, say, for example, coworkers, having problems at home, pour their heart out at each other and connect on an emotional level. Not being married to each other or even being in a love relationship, they feel less burdened to maintain their facade and end up confiding and feeling more at ease with each other than with their partner.

It's a door to physical infidelity of course.

Nobody(reasonable) is denying that the concept of "emotional infidelety" exists and represents an existing interaction in reality.

That however does not mean it is actually cheating, which is the thing that's disputed here. Until either romantic or sexual connections are made it is not cheating. It is a theoretical concept in regards to cheating. The term itself describes an action that you cannot possibly validate as cheating unless you stretch it to the breaking point.

last edited at May 3, 2020 9:06AM

I can attest that "emotional infidelity" does not only exists in theory, it's something a lot of people do.

It often happens that two people, say, for example, coworkers, having problems at home, pour their heart out at each other and connect on an emotional level. Not being married to each other or even being in a love relationship, they feel less burdened to maintain their facade and end up confiding and feeling more at ease with each other than with their partner.

It's a door to physical infidelity of course.

Nobody(reasonable) is denying that the concept of "emotional infidelety" exists and represents an existing interaction in reality.

That however does not mean it is actually cheating, which is the thing that's disputed here. Until either romantic or sexual connections are made it is not cheating. It is a theoretical concept in regards to cheating. The term itself describes an action that you cannot possibly validate as cheating unless you stretch it to the breaking point.

You got so pissed at me for anticipating that you would quibble about definitions, and here you are quibbling about the definition.

You're making a distinction between "infidelity of a significant kind" and "cheating." Nobody is making the claim that emotional infidelity is the same thing as a sexual affair. By definition they are not. But they're parallel, and the concept is certainly relevant to the situation in this story.

But sure, define "cheating" as a sexual affair, and you're right and everybody else is wrong.

You got so pissed at me for anticipating that you would quibble about definitions, and here you are quibbling about the definition.

You're making a distinction between "infidelity of a significant kind" and "cheating." Nobody is making the claim that emotional infidelity is the same thing as a sexual affair. By definition they are not. But they're parallel, and the concept is certainly relevant to the situation in this story.

But sure, define "cheating" as a sexual affair, and you're right and everybody else is wrong.

I did not get "pissed", just disappointed that you believe it is okay to use such an unfair line to get leverage on someone. You didn't anticipate anything, you just flat out poisoned the well by saying I am obssessed with winning and that's why I would argue definitions. Perhaps you have already dug yourself so far in that you can't help it, but there is no need for something like that. To be clear about what words mean is the basis on how to discuss topics containing them. It's not about winning or being right. Don't let out your frustrations on me.

If emotional infidelity is not equatable to cheating ( any kind of cheating mind you, not just sexual, please actually read my entire comment next time), then what pray tell is the point of bringing it up to counter someone saying that there is no proof of cheating yet? You already aquiesed to this yourself, why do you feel the need to jump in again when I merely restate that point for someone else who seemed to miss my point?

last edited at May 3, 2020 9:43AM

You got so pissed at me for anticipating that you would quibble about definitions, and here you are quibbling about the definition.

You're making a distinction between "infidelity of a significant kind" and "cheating." Nobody is making the claim that emotional infidelity is the same thing as a sexual affair. By definition they are not. But they're parallel, and the concept is certainly relevant to the situation in this story.

But sure, define "cheating" as a sexual affair, and you're right and everybody else is wrong.

I did not get "pissed", just disappointed that you believe it is okay to use such an unfair line to get leverage on someone. You didn't anticipate anything, you just flat out poisoned the well by saying I am obssessed with winning and that's why I would argue definitions. Perhaps you have already dug yourself so far in that you can't help it, but there is no need for something like that. To be clear about what words mean is the basis on how to discuss topics containing them. It's not about winning or being right. Don't let out your frustrations on me.

If emotional infidelity is not equatable to cheating ( any kind of cheating mind you, not just sexual, please actually read my entire comment next time), then what pray tell is the point of bringing it up to counter someone saying that there is no proof of cheating yet? You already aquiesed to this yourself, why do you feel the need to jump in again when I merely restate that point for someone else who seemed to miss my point?

Please, please release me from my ignorance that has led me to commit so many offenses against you: what do you mean by "cheating"? You keep saying that a certain kind of infidelity is most definitely not cheating (even though the words are in fact synonyms).

So by all means "be clear about what words mean" and explain what "cheating" is as opposed to "infidelity."