Forum › Nettaigyo wa Yuki ni Kogareru discussion

52722-l
joined Nov 8, 2017

I still ship Koyuki and Konatsu.

I'm dissapointed in Konatsu for setting a Snapchat dog filter selfie as a profile pic.

F4x-3lwx0aa0tcu31
joined Apr 20, 2013

Thank you skulll! I'm okay with that... Just saying, as long as is not het of course!! And that doesn't seem to be the case at all unlike euphonium and that other that we can't speak about

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

"The only one I can rely on is..." I knew it would be Hirose, lmao! Best grill! Bless this chapter! Keep the friendship rolling~

Nevri Uploader
Rosmontis
Nevrilicious Scans
joined Jun 5, 2015

Heavensrun posted:

Eh, that's because Shoujo Ai -isn't- really a term made up by westerners. It's a term used in japan, but it just refers to the girl's love genre in general, as does Yuri.

I recommend reading my original post and then deleting yours.

Av
joined May 25, 2015

Wasn’t there a similar discussion over Nakatani Nio disagreeing with yuri as a label? IIRC she said she wanted to draw relationships between women (romantic or otherwise) regardless of how the readers classified them.

joined Nov 5, 2017

Wasn’t there a similar discussion over Nakatani Nio disagreeing with yuri as a label? IIRC she said she wanted to draw relationships between women (romantic or otherwise) regardless of how the readers classified them.

Not really. Nakatani said she didn't consider her Touhou doujins as yuri, because the nature of most of them wasn't explicit romantic relationships between women (some were, and she called those yuri, but those were a minority among all her stories back then). She saw her doujins as depicting different relationships between individuals that happened to be girls.
She has always called Yagakimi yuri and romance, this is not "up to the reader's interpretation" which is the point of Hagino's comments. So Nakatani doesn't disagree with the yuri label and actually embraces it with Yagakimi. Her editor even got mad some months ago at people who said Nakatani doesn't see her work is yuri.

Related: https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_volume_1_extras#2

last edited at Mar 29, 2019 11:32PM

Descarga%20(3)
joined Aug 10, 2015

i mean im not mad and surely im not gonna drop the manga because like people already post this is one of the best slice of life mangas that i´ve ever read (well maybe if a male love interest appears i´ll drop it but probably that wont´t happen)

but men first euphonium then amanchu and now hanigare
quoting the user runrin on the tae.chan and jimiko.san thread

runrin posted:

i honestly don't expect this from 99% of yuri.

(referring to deep character motivations and logic)

it's not exactly a genre full of woke authors writing about healthy relationships. i just overlook what i can, and enjoy the nice parts. i'll put up with incest, weird power dynamics, etc, etc, if its cute enough. it's just so common for yuri to have at least one thing that bothers me, that i've gotten to the point where i just try to get what i can out of it.

so it´s really sad (and kind of frustrating) when stuff like euphonium and hanigare that in my opinion are actually good and well written (maybe also amanchu before the kokoro BS) are like "nop just gals being pals nothing to see here"

last edited at Mar 30, 2019 1:59AM

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Shoujo ai is made up term by westerners, because they needed a way to market SFW and NSFW yuri and needed a clear distinction.

And yet despite this supposed distinction, most yuri manga are either tagged both, or just yuri even when it's SFW. Talk about useless

Eh, that's because Shoujo Ai -isn't- really a term made up by westerners. It's a term used in japan, but it just refers to the girl's love genre in general, as does Yuri. They're just synonyms. There is no real distinction in how the japanese industry uses the terms, from what I've seen.

I would actually like to see you produce these instances that you supposedly saw, of the Japanese manga and anime industry using the term shoujo ai.

GendoIkari Uploader
Tsuglenda
joined Aug 10, 2011

Shoujo ai has been used by Japanese anime and manga figures, as an exclamation.
Look at a little girl and shout "Shoujo ai!"

E-iue9kvqaa8rk1
joined Mar 29, 2019

Maybe I am just trying to not face the reallity but is this really the same as what happen in euphonium and amanchu?
I mean what happened in those seems way worse

F4x-3lwx0aa0tcu31
joined Apr 20, 2013

Zexalfan posted:

Maybe I am just trying to not face the reallity but is this really the same as what happen in euphonium and amanchu?
I mean what happened in those seems way worse

Not at all, not even close

E-iue9kvqaa8rk1
joined Mar 29, 2019

Zexalfan posted:

Maybe I am just trying to not face the reallity but is this really the same as what happen in euphonium and amanchu?
I mean what happened in those seems way worse

Not at all, not even close

OH THANK GOD.
Don't mind the over reaction. Thanks for the reasurance about it, I haven't seen either euphonium or amanchu so I couldn't really confirm how alike the situations were.

Untitled
joined May 2, 2018

Did the authors of Euphonium and Amanchu have any yuri background like Hagino does?

last edited at Mar 31, 2019 8:29AM

Webp.net-resizeimage%20(1)
joined Jan 7, 2018

Zexalfan posted:

Maybe I am just trying to not face the reallity but is this really the same as what happen in euphonium and amanchu?
I mean what happened in those seems way worse

Not at all, not even close

Did the authors of Euphonium and Amanchu have any yuri background like Hagino does?

IKR! it hurts way more pulling a "friendship/skinship between girls" from a yuri author. Makoto Hagino is clearly a yuri fan and she's not fooling anyone. she flooded her story with yuri interactions that cannot be called subtext anymore. heck even her covers are so gay if any normie saw it they will say it's a lesbian romance story. if she really didn't plan to write a yuri romance story from the beginning, why did she put all those yuri elements into her story? beats me.

welp, guess I'll stop following this manga and maybe I'll read it when it's finished to see how their "friendship" settles. I'm actually not one of those "no gay no deal" people, but she clearly wasted a great romance story potential with fantastic and well developed characters. the two main girls' chemistry is what kept me commited to reading this story every chapter release.

last edited at Mar 31, 2019 10:20AM

Untitled
joined May 2, 2018

Zexalfan posted:

Maybe I am just trying to not face the reallity but is this really the same as what happen in euphonium and amanchu?
I mean what happened in those seems way worse

Not at all, not even close

Did the authors of Euphonium and Amanchu have any yuri background like Hagino does?

IKR! it hurts way more pulling a "friendship/skinship between girls" from a yuri author.

That's exactly the opposite of what I'm thinking. It's reassuring if anything - I can't imagine a known yuri author voluntarily going Amanchu.

Webp.net-resizeimage%20(1)
joined Jan 7, 2018

Zexalfan posted:

Maybe I am just trying to not face the reallity but is this really the same as what happen in euphonium and amanchu?
I mean what happened in those seems way worse

Not at all, not even close

Did the authors of Euphonium and Amanchu have any yuri background like Hagino does?

IKR! it hurts way more pulling a "friendship/skinship between girls" from a yuri author.

That's exactly the opposite of what I'm thinking. It's reassuring if anything - I can't imagine a known yuri author voluntarily going Amanchu.

​I understand that what Amanchu author pulled is waaaay worse than this. that said, what Makoto Hagino did is still as bad as Hibike. "just gals being pals"..and it still hurts way more than Hibike considering that Makoto is a yuri author herself. I mean, we totally had faith in you goddamnit ;-;

joined Jul 26, 2016

I'm pretty sure I'm seeing some major jumping to conclusions in this thread right now.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I'm pretty sure I'm seeing some major jumping to conclusions in this thread right now.

I was thinking the same thing this very moment. How many creators across various media have we heard say the equivalent of, "I don't think of this as [familiar genre]--to me it's [airy-fairy restatement of gist of familiar genre]"?

Then the work turns out to be pretty much [familiar genre] with, at best, a bit of a twist.

I think it's a way they keep themselves from just wallowing in genre tropes or getting swamped by audience expectations.

last edited at Mar 31, 2019 4:19PM

joined Jul 26, 2016

I think it's a way they keep themselves from just wallowing in genre tropes or getting swamped by audience expectations.

Sounds about right. And some authors just dislike labels on principle.

joined Jan 25, 2017

Judge stories by what happens in the stories, IMO

Amanchu and Eupho aren't trash because their authors went in interviews and said "no homo" at one point somewhere maybe, they're trash because the actual stories themselves undermined their core character dynamics in shitty and nonsensical ways. If the actual text of Nettaigyo stays good then I don't really care if the author says "and then 10 years later they were all abducted by aliens" or whatever, and by the same token if the story does something stupid and that doesn't work as we're reading it then I don't really care about how Hagino explains it beyond maybe as a curiosity.

45b4e36d555ca184502130f8249354c2--flcl-furi-kuri2
joined Jul 19, 2018

The way the crowd here is basically screaming blasphemy is more than a little amusing.

Well, it's all about promises not kept. In manga an anime all too often an attraction gets established between two female characters, only for the writers to then go "Fooled ya! They don't have teh ghey. What, you think we're perverts or something?" And to drive the point home the girls either get a boyfriend, get separated forever by whatever means, or have a falling out over nothing.

And no, I absolutely don't care one iota what a writer says on Twitter or in an interview. This about what is happening within the story, and within this particular one the writer establishes a truckload of subtext between Koyuki and Konatsu, only to bail out later on. Koyuki's worries about her future would have a lot more weight in the context of her relationship with Konatsu, but the writer practically ejects Konatsu from the the story and then replaces her with some random other character. Why? It could all be down to incompetence, but stuff like this happens so often in manga and anime that I have become quite cynical.

Like I said, it is getting a bit better, but for every series that is serious about attraction between girls we get a hundred that are like this one.

What it simply means is what you miss understood to be subtext wasn't. Apply more rigorous perception checking next time and be aware of your own confirmation bias warping your world view or misunderstanding a fictitious story may be the least of your troubles.

For what it's worth although I was far from certain, I thought it was likely going down the yuri path as well.

Satchmo_Omega
Hedgehog
joined Feb 26, 2018

"For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'." I quite like the story and because of that it saddens me that it will not bear fruit. I will stay and see where it goes.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

I mean, some people here confound me.

"Although it probably can't technically be called a shoujo ai/yuri manga, there's a lot of subtext, so you don't even need to put on your yuri goggles for this one. It's just basically a very cute story about two girls who find solace in their loneliness with each other, and from the beginning, it's been billed as a "girl-ship story", short for girls friendship."

Quoting from the scanlators' webpage, which was linked almost a year ago in this thread, precisely to address the hordes of people who were complaining about the subtext tag back then. I mean, I know that in the meantime the entire "subtext" thing has become something of a joke, but I am still under the impression some here took that Dynasty specific joke and expected the author to be in on it, pulling a full yuri reveal at the end.

Descarga%20(3)
joined Aug 10, 2015

I'm pretty sure I'm seeing some major jumping to conclusions in this thread right now.

I was thinking the same thing this very moment. How many creators across various media have we heard say the equivalent of, "I don't think of this as [familiar genre]--to me it's [airy-fairy restatement of gist of familiar genre]"?

Then the work turns out to be pretty much [familiar genre] with, at best, a bit of a twist.

I think it's a way they keep themselves from just wallowing in genre tropes or getting swamped by audience expectations.

could you gime some examples because i´ve never heard of this specific situation in any kind of media

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