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UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
VAMPEERZ discussion 27 Jan 08:19
joined Sep 6, 2015

According to Shou's fanbox, chapter 46 will be the end. Savour these last few chapters, folks. Regarding the plot thus far, I must confess, I am not a fan of the whole "can not bring myself to kill her" shtick that Aria has for Al-Kamil. We are talking about someone who not only killed countless innocent humans across thousands of years, but also literally eradicated Aria's entire tribe, wiping out everyone she cared about for most of her existence. I just can not find it believable that Aria would still hold enough warmth in her heart for Al-Kamil to be literally incapable of killing her at this point.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

The fact that the queen was forced to break up her relationship with the tailor was a tragedy, but wishing to have her current relationship crumble yet again seems counterproductive to me. That would just be yet another tragedy and wouldn't actually "fix" anything.

Because, in the current state, the author is making a statement that a good story (in the happy romance genre at least, as drama and tragedies would follow different rules) can use forced marriage (with all the heteronormativity associated, and the dark implications of being forced to bear someone's children without having a say) and it is perfectly fine for the characters to follow that plot line. It's also directly supporting that forcing someone to break up with their beloved and become the wife and mate of someone they never met is fine, "as long as they are happy in the end".

You seem to not understand that an author using certain tropes in fiction does not mean they support those same tropes in real life. There is no "statement" here.

You also completely missed the point, it is not about gender, it is about social class. Kunya was also interested in Momo and it was never implied that such a relationship would have been impossible. Note that in the linked scene Aki at no point thinks that Kunya does not have a chance on account of being a woman. And immediately afterwards when Kunya confronts Aki over the relationship between Aki and Momo, she lists Aki's social status as the obstacle, the fact Aki is a girl is not brought up at all.

When the Queen catches her daughter with Aki her only source of worry is the disparity between their status. "A love between social standings", I do not know how the author could have made it any clearer.

Honestly, I find the inclusion, and in particular portraying in a good light, of that situation highly problematic and disturbing. That's why I'm suggesting a divorce plot direction would correct this - it doesn't have to be a tragedy, just both characters agreeing that their marriage was not out of love but political interests, and that they would both be happier if they separated and were free to pursue their true love. Considering the queen and the dressmaker still see each other and, indeed, seem to still love each other, that would be a perfect solution to get a happy ending for everyone in-universe; while narratively, the story would distance itself from the positive portrayal of forced marriage, without shifting its tone by hurting the characters.

You also misread the portrayal of the arranged marriage in this specific example. Both the Queen and her husband express they were scared of marrying a stranger chosen for them by their parents. It is portrayed more like a "thank gods it turned out not horrible in the end". Plus, Momo's father is openly musing whether they should maybe not force an arranged marriage on their own daughter. In other words, not only is the "statement" you imagined the author made about the "positivity" of arranged marriages nowhere to be found, but what is implied in the text is actually exactly the opposite.

If anything, despite the Queen being adamant about Momo doing her duty towards the realm, the backstory we were now provided is actually more likely to make her sympathetic towards her daughter's love interest.

You also seem to have serious issues about understanding the setting itself. "...both characters agreeing that their marriage was not out of love but political interests, and that they would both be happier if they separated and were free to pursue their true love." Even though this is a fantasy setting, it operates on pretty clearly established principles of hereditary social classes and monarchical governance. I hate to break it to you, but marriages under these circumstances are made for political interest, it is how politics is conducted when you have such social structures. It is the duty of royal children to secure the future of their country through marriage. "Pursuing their true love" could realistically lead to war.

In other words, your idea is unrealistic within the confines of this setting and clashes horribly with it, forcing decidedly modern concepts on a story set in markedly different times. I have no doubt that Momo and Aki will make their own relationship work, but they will obviously have to fight for it. Expecting not only that, but that every other character should now throw all logic that the setting is based on into the wind and just start divorcing willy-nilly is pushing it too far, though.

But as I said, I'm not holding out on hope. I feel that the author is making this situation seem okay, and that the queen will just continue to accept her role as a victim of abusive authority. I'd love to be proven wrong, obviously. But right now, it's making me very uncomfortable, and I'm actually considering whether I should support an author writing such stories, even if the rest of the story (e.g., regarding Momo) is happier.

You are reading this on a pirate site, I am fairly confident the author is not being supported by default.

last edited at Jan 26, 2023 11:42PM

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Well, that felt incomplete... good art, though.

joined Sep 6, 2015

That argument does not work if they were comfortable with their previous gender as well.

I'd honestly be willing to consider these as falling under the umbrella of genderqueer, and thus trans, as well.

Fair enough. I worded my original post needlessly harshly, apologies for that. I still do not agree with your core argument, that genderbending and being trans is implicitly linked (and especially that this is categorical, as your wording suggests).

I think that the issue people have is that "genderbender" stories are treated as wholly separate from trans identity. It's treated as a fantastical or fetishistic thing, rather than a very grounded reality that many people experience.

You use the word "treated", but the thing is, many of these stories are written like that.

It comes across as something meant for cishet men to enjoy "safely," without having to consider any messy issues like gender identity or discrimination.

Again, the stories themselves more often that not do not consider these messy issues at all, so I do not understand why you see them as a "very grounded reality that many people experience". Looking at these works as escapism or wishful thinking (easy transitioning and no social discrimination) I get, but that does not equate to "grounded reality".

That's not to say people can't enjoy genderbender (as many trans people will tell you, it's super common to be drawn to GB stories long before being aware of their own transness), but I feel like the themes are inescapably trans no matter whether you use the term or not. And attempting to say it's somehow some separate, totally unrelated thing is at best tone-deaf and at worse active erasure of trans identity and perspectives.

And yet those same perspectives then lead to criticism like that expressed by SillieHonka, which ends with the conundrum of all of this being inescapably trans and yet at the same time not accurately representative of that same trans experience. My whole point is that this is an unfair criticism, faulting a work for something the work itself never intended to convey.

There was a reason why I mentioned futa in my first post, as it shares many of the same issues and arguments as this discussion. Some of these tropes are just that, tropes. As you yourself later wrote, being transgender is not a trope. Genderbending, on the other hand, is. It is a fictional device whose primary theme overlaps with the trans experience, but at the end of the day it is just a passing similarity.

To be honest, I think it's kind of obtuse to argue that genderbending -- someone's body changing to the other sex due to magic or fake science -- and transitioning -- someone deliberately changing their body's sex with real science -- are totally different and incomparable.

While not necessarily totally different, they are separate things in my opinion, as obtuse as it is. I just fail to see a meaningful connection between a deliberate action that comes with a plethora of emotional and psychological foundations, and a magical story device thrust upon a character by pure chance that more often than not comes with none of said foundations.

These concepts are very similar, a similarity that many genderbending manga themselves discuss and use.

I would actually be interested to see a genderbending manga that discusses and uses the similarity between its concept and the experiences of trans people. So far I have not read a single one which did that, thus the claim that "many" do it seems dubious at best from my perspective.

Now, I don't agree with the argument that manga like this are inherently cisnormative. This is fake science, we can pretend that (for example) the "genderbend disease" also changed Takkun's gender identity because it's all made up.

And the reason we have to resort to pretending in your example is because the manga does not address the issue of gender identity at all.

I actually think the genderbending trope can potentially be used for some interesting and nuanced explorations of gender identity, like in the excellent Ore Ga Watashi Ni Naru Made.

I agree, I can see it potentially being used that way. All I am saying is, it very rarely is in practice, and it is certainly not in this specific work. Most of Takkun's issues regarding the changed body are superficial and revolve around whether Roko still feels attraction.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
Prism discussion 17 Jan 22:46
joined Sep 6, 2015

Dam just found a gem and then found out it’s cut short! Hopefully it’ll resume one day

Unlikely, the cancellation was because of copyright concerns, as the images Shou traced were copyrighted. A small consolation is that the point at which the manga cuts off can sort of work as an ending, at least we were not left on a cliffhanger.

joined Sep 6, 2015

You do realize Genderbending is in itself a separate trope right? Genderbend and Trans can exist separately.

Technically they could exist separately, but in practice, by implication they don't. If the genderbent people in these stories don't transition back, they'd be confortable with their "new" gender -- hence they were trans before.

That argument does not work if they were comfortable with their previous gender as well. I know that you are a fan of the "death of the author" theory, but sometimes it seems to me you go into absurdity with it. Genderbend and Trans more often than not are separate, and not just technically. The vast majority of genderbending manga were not written with any serious thought about actual trans people, in the same way the vast majority of futa content is not representative (nor was it intended as such) of trans women.

While you as a reader are absolutely free to pencil in whatever impressions and implications you want into the story, I still think it is utterly pointless to do so in these cases, imposing an interpretation upon a work that was never intended or likely even thought about by the author. Extra points for pointlessness if you then go a step further and criticise a work for not being something it never intended to be in the first place, as SillieHonka did.

last edited at Jan 17, 2023 5:22PM

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Can she vomit up different species ? Can she do whales? Octopus?squid? So many questions.

Considering that she ended up in a hospital with a dislocated jaw because she threw up a large carp, I imagine the results of her throwing up anything larger would be rather horrifying...

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Guys just think about it, she kinda vomits the fish related to her feelings, so make her feel koi fish and then they're rich bc that fish is expensive af

That was actually my very first idea when I read the story. Fish in general can be pricey, and she can go somewhere inland where fresh fish needs refrigerated transport to even get there. She has no need for fishermen or for said transport, allowing her to undercut virtually all competition. The fish is still alive when she vomits it, and therefore fresh, and she vomits copious amounts as well. Basically, "free money" was my first impression.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

The fish are a metaphor for social anxiety

I think that was just the case for the big carp that dislocated her jaw. When she confessed, it was a different species, whose Japanese pronunciation was a pun on "kissing" (plus, the fish literally kissed as well). It seems the various fish species represent different emotional states, social anxiety being just one of them. Note that she says people started avoiding her because of the fish vomiting, there are no indications she was a social outcast or that she was particularly anxious before this point.

I read it as a metaphor for being queer. Once she started vomiting fish, as in once she came out, people starting avoiding her. Tsucchi stays with her because vomiting fish, or being queer, doesn't bother her. Myaako thinks she might be cured of her fish vomiting, or queerness, if she kisses the person she likes. And in the end, it's not something that can be cured.

See also "Still Sick" for another work that compares queerness and sickness.

That is also a good explanation, I like it. Though, now I am kind of wishing we are all wrong and the author just wrote is as a what-the-fuck, would be kind of funny. "Huh, people see all these layers in my fish vomiting doujin..."

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

The fish are a metaphor for social anxiety

I think that was just the case for the big carp that dislocated her jaw. When she confessed, it was a different species, whose Japanese pronunciation was a pun on "kissing" (plus, the fish literally kissed as well). It seems the various fish species represent different emotional states, social anxiety being just one of them. Note that she says people started avoiding her because of the fish vomiting, there are no indications she was a social outcast or that she was particularly anxious before this point.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

did i miss something it feels like mask totally changed how she regards kaoru out of no where

They interacted plenty, maybe you just missed those chapters? Their interactions are my favourite amongst all the pairings, so far Mask is the only person who turned out capable of bringing out a side of Kaoru that we do not normally see, blunt and dorky and almost childishly smug, often dropping the "gorgeous vamp" persona completely.

Mask too proved to be an exception, being apparently completely resilient to Kaoru's womanising ways and also giving as good as she gets when the two of them are trying to one-up each other. Watching them sarcastically spar and being smug when they think they scored over the other is a treat. And then there are moments where they have genuine heart-to-hearts.

Probably my favourite sequence with them is when Mask is doubting herself over her mangaka talents. In chapter 236 she actually goes to the library hoping to stumble upon Kaoru there, but does not find her. In the end she basically talks to herself while pretending to speak to Kaoru in what is essentially a moment of extreme emotional weakness - this was almost 30 chapters ago and is a pretty big indicator that Mask has positive feelings for Kaoru, even if she still verbally spars with her.

Then in chapter 249 they actually do end up having this conversation for real, after Kaoru catches Mask sleeping on the train and gets worried, accurately deducing the latter stayed up all night drawing manga, fuelled by her feelings of inferiority in regards to Onibi. Kaoru offers genuine praise, completely free of any seduction undertones, is blunt and even ends said praise by literally calling Mask an idiot. Mask, for her part, breaks down in tears.

Mask is also aware of Kaoru's reputation and nature (keep in mind that Mask is friends with Kaoru's sister), so if she decides to let Kaoru get close to her it will not be a decision made out of ignorance. I mean, in that same chapter 249, she actually decides to wait for Kaoru on the train station after the latter missed their stop and when the return train opens the doors to reveal that Kaoru passed the time on the ride back by flirting with some random grill, Mask gets instantly pissed and storms off.

Well, it doesn't help that Mask has a very peculiar way of speaking, reminiscent of very old Asian literature and characters

In Japanese she even uses a female pronoun from the Edo period. It is one of the reasons for why Shizuka considers her to be a weirdo, lol.

last edited at Jan 6, 2023 9:24AM

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
VAMPEERZ discussion 20 Nov 14:49
joined Sep 6, 2015

Agree, it seemed Al planned to get hurt so she would need to turn into a vampire. I'd just add that this is not a regular child way of thinking and acting. And since is just a manga with fictional characters, I can say this without being a psychiatrist: Al seems a psycho, and turning a psychopath into a vampire should also be a no no. And this adds another layer of tragedy to it all.

I disagree, I think it was exactly what a child would do. A mortal child surrounded by immortal beings, wishing to join them. It would be more surprising if she had the patience and foresight to know that waiting until she grows up is preferable.

Plus, as a child she would have a very loose grasp of her own mortality to begin with, coupled with the fact she was living surrounded by people who literally could not die and she knew she could join them; I can easily see a 9-year-old kid not making a big deal out of jumping off a cliff under such circumstances.

In fact, this might be the reason why she became a psychopath as a vampire. Aria and her entire posse act pretty immaturely and closer to what you would expect from their apparent age if they were mortal. I think it is pretty obvious that at least on some level they are mentally frozen in time (which would also explain why Aria's entire personality did not just collapse under the weight of four millennia of memories and boredom - she explicitly compares eternal life to boredom). Now imagine a literal child subjected to this.

Children do not have their personalities developed, they do not have emotional maturity or the feeling of right and wrong (there is a reason why kids can be so excessively cruel - they literally do not have a frame of reference for their actions until they are taught by adults). Al-Kamil was still in the middle of this process when she was turned, gods know what that meant for her psychological development, or if she would even be capable of having psychological development after that point.

Put it this way, even if literally nothing about her was said before now and this background story was the very first time she was mentioned, I would have alarm bells going off immediately just the same.

last edited at Nov 20, 2022 4:13PM

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
VAMPEERZ discussion 20 Nov 13:54
joined Sep 6, 2015

So how old is Aria exactly? I thought at some point she said she was born a few hundred years ago. Maybe I'm misremembering.

This page says 4000
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/vampeerz_ch38#26

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/vampeerz_ch31#12 When she first said it she was actually unsure if it was 4000 or 5000, lol. She had to use the fall of the Sumerian king Ibbi-Sin at the hands of the Elamites to jog her memory.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Eh, sometimes there is overlap.

In grad school, I had a friend who at the age of 21, was told "I'm sorry dear, you have to be at least 14 to volunteer at the library". And she wasn't medically unusual, just 5'0 or maybe even 5'2, and somehow looking youngish.

In the same period, my advisor's daughter regularly looked 4 years older than her age, to people. When she was 11 people guessed she was 15, when she was 13 people thought she was 17. Maybe 5'6, dressing more 'maturely' with European influence. Darker coloration, not sure if that affects people's perceptions.

A year ago I was rushed to a hospital and the nurse thought I was a minor (which means under the age of 18 here). I was 31. It happens, and it is not even that rare.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

"Well, this could be fun, as long as the age gap isn't too- never mind."

Dynasty desperately needs a tag for stories that go beyond "age gap" to actual pedophilia. You can read what you want, but people should have a reliable way to avoid it

I've tried to suggest this before, but people didn't seem to like the idea. The argument being: most "Age Gap" stuff on the site involves a minor, so there's no point. Not a very convincing argument, since there's even a tag for lizards and several other rarely used joke tags... But what can you do.

In this case I wasn't that surprised due to the author's previous work, but I am a bit disappointed because it seemed cute until the last page.

You and the person you are responding to should really google what the word "pedophilia" actually means, as you are using it completely wrong. Maybe then you will also understand why your suggestion received pushback.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
Anime season 20 Oct 21:47
joined Sep 6, 2015

It's anyone who is currently paying taxes, or more specifically, pays for our public health care (which is usually taken care off for you if you're working or are assigned to some welfare system or w/e).

Not actually true, it is not taken care of for you if you are working. In fact, if you are working, that is literally the only instance where you do pay for it yourself. Every month a certain amount (not even necessarily a small amount either) is deducted from your paycheque in order to cover the mandatory government health insurance, this is usually done directly through your employer.

Also, in some countries (France, I believe), the amount you pay is proportional to your income, so the bigger the income, the bigger the fee you have to pay.

And it doesn't matter how much money you paid before that. You could be paying for 30 years in a row, without a fault, but if you happen to not have work this month and don't gain public health in any other way, sucks to be you, you'll be paying for everything.

I mean, "any other way" usually means simply registering as being currently unemployed. There are certain protected categories and these can vary between countries, but generally the elderly, the underaged, college students (primary and high school students are automatically covered under the "underaged" category), disabled people, people with very low income, and unemployed have their mandatory insurance covered fully by the state and do not pay for it at all.

Where taxes come into this is that you have certain products and services whose taxation goes largely, mostly, or even fully into funding the national health insurance (like tax on gambling in France, or tax on tobacco products and similar), and of course, whenever additional funds are required the state covers the bill, and the state is funded by taxes.

I am talking primarily about Europe here, and I believe so were you, so just clarifying these couple of points.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Everyone is talking about the hotel staff grill preferring non-tanned skin, yet my first impressions were "damn, parents keeping their child locked up in a windowless room for 18 years, how did she not straight up go clinically insane, this is pure abuse" and "wait, you will just causally shrug it off that she drugged the employee with sleeping pills in her drink". I realise that this story is not supposed to be taken too literally and that it is all basically a tortured metaphor, but I mean, it is a bit too tortured.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

they're better off together than they were apart

I think this isn't true, because their relationship is predicated on reinforcing rather than healing their problems. I think it's basically going to nullify the therapy; therapy isn't some magic cure-all for mental health. To begin with, they'd have to want to change, to make effort towards overcoming their problems, and that's not going to be the case while their 'needs' are fulfilled in this manner. Mea especially seems like she's prone to becoming more and more yandere from getting positive reinforcement for helping.

On the surface this is true, but at the same time you are putting a lot of stock into said therapy, even though we were not shown that it had any noticeable effect whatsoever. Because you are right, therapy is not a magical cure and sometimes it fails completely despite the best efforts.

This is a fictional story and as such must pick and choose the elements it will display, and it will generally display only those elements which are relevant, especially if it is a short story (as it has far fewer pages to play with and must make good use of each one if the writer is any good, and I think this writer is). If therapy was a viable alternative for these two specific individuals, we would have seen it presented in the story itself.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

I assumed it's sorta a special facility and they are living there, as seen during lunch time it's only the two of them, it's probably a two people class. So it would make sense for Mea taking over all of Aise's schedule, and the hair lenght fits Mea without her hairclips (since it was near bedtime)

Edit:

But being her mom looks more likely after I reread it, since she's then seeing sleeping on the table so it hints to it being a regular house instead of an room/apartment.

Also keep in mind that the counsellor who assigns Mea to help Aise says that Mea "always arrives at school so early in the morning", which means that even if it is a school for kids with special needs said kids seem to commute there from home. The credit page also has the counsellor's ID card singled out and it seems to say it is a middle school, without any mention of it being a special facility.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

That's all well and good, if you reduce their identity down to exactly one trait. But humans aren't just one trait. If other aspects of their personalities clash, they might break up later.

The complementing issues they have are far more than "exactly one trait", so you are actually the one being reductive here.

Assuming that Mea doesn't outright kill her when that time comes, they'll still be in an even worse position than they are now, having fully reinforced each other's unhealthy mentality rather than addressing it.

As someone commented elsewhere, Mea immediately regretting her actions at the end when she pushed Aise down the stairs shows that she is an actual person with issues rather than just a stereotypical manga psychopath. I can not see her killing anyone here.

It is true that they are reinforcing each other's unhealthy mentalities, but I still maintain: they are better off together than they would be on their own. Neither is shown to open up to other people and Aise in particular would have been likely to commit suicide in the near future if not for finding support in Mea.

I can't see this as a happy ending at all.

Never said it was a happy ending.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Mea might want to do it but I'm not sure she actually enjoys it, as shown on the page where she's helping Aise out of the bathtub and Aise sees Mea's tired expression (which she quickly turns into a smile). That was what ultimately prompted Aise to tell Mea to stop caring for her. So yeah, Mea is gonna have a breakdown sooner or later at that rate. Mea just doesn't know any other way to get close to people than to taking care of them.

Could be. To me when I read it the first time it looked more like she was simply struggling with physically supporting Aise (in the bathtub scene) and then Aise reading too much into it (because she already expects everyone around her to feel bothered) rather than Mea feeling drained, but your take would also make a lot of sense.

Edit:

That wasn't Mea, that was her mom.

Nicely spotted, I also thought it was Mea. Different hairstyle and the fact Mea would not be taking care of Aise at her home should have been a dead giveaway, but my brain just completely overlooked it. Then yeah, I stand by my original take regarding the dynamic between Mea and Aise.

last edited at Oct 3, 2022 5:21PM

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

I think the mom probably returned to remission from her alcohol dependency.

I think so as well. Explains why Mea so desperately jumped at the opportunity to take care of Aise, she needed to fill the void left by her mother no longer needing her care.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

I kind of expected a horror fest for the sake of simple shock value after that opening, but it quickly turned out to be a serious and well crafted story and I was pleasantly surprised. I especially liked the realism with which the characters were portrayed, particularly the main girl. An alcoholic single parent who depends upon her daughter for support through the drunkenness and actively rewards said support with expressions of affection and love, creating a positive feedback for the child. No wonder Mea came to regard her mother's alcoholism as a good thing and felt helpless and abandoned once that positive affirmation was taken away from her.

It is not really a common situation, as most alcoholic parents are physically and psychologically abusive towards their children, creating a negative feedback that would hardly have the kids actively wanting their parents to continue being alcoholics (the mother here is psychologically abusive but in a different way). That being said, if the kind of situation depicted here actually developed, I could absolutely see the child taking on these really messed up sets of values.

The mother never tried talking to Mea, explaining the situation before and after getting clean, and lashed out violently when Mea tried getting her back into her addiction (which was absolutely the wrong thing to do, the child was not really aware of what she was doing and the violent outburst just deepened the feeling of rejection on her part, though I do fully understand how and why the mother snapped under such circumstances). All of which just worsened the situation.

Though, to be fair towards the mother, next to nobody in her place would think "my child might actually like me being an alcoholic because I seriously messed up her values system". I doubt that actual therapists would even pick up on this possibility, let alone the alcoholic themselves. As realistically as the mental development Mea went through is depicted, it is a really uncommon set of circumstances, which is an element I greatly enjoyed. Having this unlikely situation (a strangely non-abusive, or as close to that, alcoholic parent who gives the child positive affirmation through said alcoholism) but then developing it in a detailed and realistic fashion.

All of which made it painfully obvious what would happen when Mea was later paired with Aise, a person in dire need of someone to take care of her due to her injuries. Aise herself was also fairly well fleshed out as a character. I especially liked how the story avoided the cliche of having her being a needy person paired with someone in need of a needy person. She is in definite need of help but she also resents and regrets that and feels bad over it, seeing herself as a burden on others.

In a way, as messed up and unhealthy as both of their perspectives are, I think they are actually better off being together than either of them would be on their own. They are a perfect match, Mea gets someone who genuinely needs her support and, more importantly, will always need her, fulfilling the deep-seated urge in Mea to be needed, while Aise gets someone whom she is absolutely certain wants and even enjoys taking care of her, thus relieving her of the feeling of guilt over being a possible burden on someone else.

As a side note, I liked the detail of Mea exhibiting yandere tendencies but also having a functioning moral feeling as well, as although she pushes Aise down the stairs she also immediately regrets it and understands it was wrong of her to do it.

On another side note, I also liked the art style, I think it actually fits nicely into the mood and themes of the story itself.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Meta -
I think a lot of the meta debate needs to be moved into another thread because it’s becoming a massive buzzkill to see the same people arguing in the comments over the arcana of translation and what does yuri REALLY mean, to the point that it’s drowning out any and all discussion of the actual work. I dropped out of grad school to get away from people arguing the enjoyment out of everything I found interesting, and it’s really bad vibes to see that sort of circular argumentation happen here. It’s just really tedious y’all.

Truth be told, there is not much to discuss story-related, it is a 4-page Twitter short. At least a quarter of the thread is discussing music and bands, which is honestly at best only tangentially related to the story proper, with the actual song list being pretty vanilla. At least another quarter is people doing what you are doing now, complaining about other posters. I would say both of these take far more space than an occasional discussion about translation (I myself was involved in a brief discussion regarding Mitsuki's actions that at the time I looked totalled 7 posts in all, and all of them fairly civil - but there were 19 posts that commented on the people commenting, many fairly rude - I think it is kind of self-explanatory where the problem actually is).

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 4:23PM

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

You see my point? If anything, by saying she's not sure if it's "yuri," Arai is (most likely) saying it won't end in ambiguity or subtext.

I actually do not see your point because you keep deliberately repeating the same lines while completely ignoring the thorough debunking that was provided previously on more than one occasion. The term "yuri" is used in Japan to refer to both the "pure/ambiguous" stuff and to the sexually/romantically explicit content. There is a small part of the Japanese fanbase that does not ascribe to this (basically the Japanese equivalent of the western "shoujo ai" crowd), who insist on using "yuri" for "pure/ambiguous" stuff while reserving the term "rezu" (from "rezubian" - "lesbian") for the explicit material.

It is a telling usage of terms because "rezu" is seen as being derogatory in real life in Japan, which is why actual lesbians there prefer to use "bian" (the other half of the word) instead. As a result, apart from the "purists", the manga industry as a whole uses "yuri" to refer to the whole genre, as do most of the fans. The same way western "shoujo ai versus yuri" crowd is shunned by the majority of the fanbase, the Japanese "yuri versus rezu" is as well, which is why you will not find many more examples for "yuri" meaning "ambiguous stuff" other than that 12 year old afterword that you keep linking.

To be exact she used the term 愛情 which can mean love/affection. It contains the kanji for romantic love and the kanji for feelings. Since she opposes it to Yuri and in the same sentence talks about struggling in her sexuality in the past, I think she means that /in that specific manga/ she doesn't want to write a yuri romance, like, say, Hana ni Harashi, but about feelings of attraction/affection between girls. Ie, the confusion of feelings of a girl who's attracted to another girl but can't put a name on it.

Which means they may not become a couple and date, but may come to acknowledge their mutual attraction. And that will be the end of the manga

What the scanlator said, and to me this does sound as a warning for an ambiguous ending, which is the exact opposite of what you continuously claim.

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 3:13PM