BUT the girls are cute, that much is clear... I would put it on the drama/slice of life category

It is not really SoL either, it has a quite clear linear plot with an emotional payback at the end. Drama and coming of age story is how I would put it.

I've noticed a rising trend in discussions on this site where users who try to take a critical stance or bring in sociopolitical context and tie fiction to real-world developments are insulted and targeted, with people telling them not to read too deeply into things or 'make this political'. The story about the mistress, for instance, struck a nerve amongst a lot of people who've dealt with manipulative employers, and to say that they should just shut up and not express their dislike for the idea feels restrictive. It's uncomfortably similar to forums that bully trans or gay folks for talking about their experiences, which could just as easily be classified as 'political'. I can understand subjectivity or people not wanting to face negativity, but surely there's better ways to express that than gagging every critical viewpoint. It feels akin to saying, "I want to consume my fantasy content, and your attempts to bring in real-world context are interfering with that consumption, so shut up." For many people, those 'political' takes are closely connected to their identities and the way they express themselves, and they shouldn't need to bottle that up.

That line of thinking very rapidly devolved into "the actual text of the story is irrelevant, only my arbitrary preconceptions about the setting matter" as I recall. At which point I for one rolled my eyes, stopped bothering and wasn't exactly surprised to find that convo wholly shut down shortly thereafter.

Disagreement with making mountains out of molehills and insisting on finding bogeymen under every bed is not, quote, gagging every critical viewpoint, unquote.

Somewhat relatedly I'd also note that there's a certain moralist undercurrent 'round here that for some bizarre reason seems to insist that fiction and depictions of people should conform to some arbitrary, ill-defined fairytale ideal and deviations from such are at best objectionable. Where any justification for this sort of moralist grandstanding is offered at all it only too often amounts to pure solipsist escapism - "I don't want to read about Bad Stuff™ in my ~Pure☆Yuri~"

Blindness to the irony of this line of thinking being little more than conservative Comix Code moralism with the serials filed off naturally comes with the territory.

Basically seconding what random wrote here. What he neglected to address is that there is no "rising trend" described in that comment. The must-tie-fiction-to-reality faction has been here since forever. The faction that is sick of them has been here since forever. The moralists random talks about have been here since forever. People opposing them have been here since forever. All of these factions becoming aggressive at points has been a fixture of this Forum since forever. I guess the reason why this person sees this as a "rising trend" is because they have been here for mere 3 months. None of this is new, nor is "rising" as of late.

Trying to tie all of this as being "uncomfortably similar" to transphobic and homophobic sites is at best a poorly thought-out reach, or at worst a deliberate attempt to portray the happenings in this Forum as being somehow just as bad in an effort to appeal to users.

Also, pointing out that both sides in the Top Energy thread were reprimanded. Peko's first point addressed the must-tie-fiction-to-reality crowd, while the second targeted their opponents, as both sides took it too far. Which is also typical for this Forum. Neither of these sides really gets to claim the higher ground in terms of their conduct.

It’s not like she’s cutting herself or becoming a heroin addict in order to impress her crush.

I really want to know what kind of person would be impressed by either of those things

I think you missed the point entirely. Blastaar will correct me if I am wrong, but what he was likely driving at was that she is not doing anything harmful or even that radical to herself, and thus her choices hardly merit to be called "problematic". Getting a haircut is completely normal, and adopting a moderate workout regimen is actually beneficial for her health.

last edited at Jan 4, 2021 7:27AM

Of all things, why did it have to be German...

Why did the tag is still not put ? It's not like it's some kind of spoiler of anything, Youko has been lowkey cheating since start.

Because the people in charge of the tagging don't agree with your pet peeve.

Care to retract that?

^ There's definitely a thumb there, though? You can see a minor incline heading up from the base of the wrist. It's just that her thumb is obscured behind her palm, and you can only see the rounding of the joint. Considering that the artist has dainty, delicate hands, it's not too strange for the bones to not be pronounced enough to prominently jut.

Edit: Yep, I tried replicating the position with my own hands, and it's a perfect match with the art. I'm honestly impressed at the author's attention to intricate positioning and detail here, because the placement isn't something you can easily visualize- you'd need to have someone model it for you or actually do the pose yourself. Conversely, all you'd need to do to confirm the accuracy of the art is pull the same position. But I like how the person who first pointed it out just went with the most condescending possible interpretation to dunk on someone who literally portrays anatomy for a living.

It is not rocket science. And I am speaking as someone who had to know anatomy as part of my profession. However, instead of countering your condescendence with my own, I will just ask you a simple question. This rounding of the joint, on which side do you see it?

Edit: On second thought, I have no desire to engage with this person. The only noticeable rounding that can be seen is on the inner side of the hand, facing the sitting person, indicating that the thumb is on that side. Which is anatomically impossible, the thumb should be on the opposite side, facing away from the person.

Secondly, the only way the thumb is not visible in this pose is if the back of the hand is positioned perfectly flatly towards us. If the hand is at an angle, like it is here (which we know because we can clearly see the sides of the fingers and not just their backs), the thumb must be visible (we are, of course, automatically assuming the thumb is in flexion here). You can not physically flex it to the point it would not be seen at such an angle. The moment even a sliver of the sides of the fingers is seen, the thumb becomes visible.

Thirdly, the cuffs are on the side of the little finger, which is, like the rounding mentioned before, on the wrong side of the hand. The little finger and the cuffs should be on the side towards the person.

Point is, the artist messed up, this is a right hand. And even if they think it is a left one and the thumb is simply not visible because it is flexed against the palm (in which case we need to ignore the rounding seen on the wrong side), they still messed up. With the hand at an angle towards us, we must see a part of the thumb.

I do like the block of text accompanied with the usual smugness, though. I especially like it when it comes after a failure to use something as simple as a mirror.

last edited at Dec 10, 2020 10:13PM

Bottom panel is the first time I thought "wow, she really is Kaoru's sister". Good stuff.

Tag Suggestion
- Character Death / Death
A few doujins that I’ve read have only had genres and characters situations in them, such as “Drama, school girl, yuri”
Some of them, however, have a character die within the contents, whether on/off page. I think I’d appreciate a character death tag; or something that can exist as a warning tag for deaths, similar to the tags for “foiled rape attempt” and “cheating”

The Tragedy tag serves that function, however, some works will not get the tag if it is considered too much of a spoiler.

This is fantasy since I know of a few happily married couples who's wives have girl lovers for decades. This is drama for the sake of nothing.

This has got to be the strangest post I have read in a long time here. I am assuming you are talking about open marriages (otherwise it is just straight up cheating and it is only "happy" because one side is unaware of said cheating). Such arrangements are rare. Most times when married people sleep around with folks other than their spouse, it is just straight up infidelity, regardless of the genders involved.

"This is unrealistic because I know a couple of very rare examples of people doing something vaguely similar and being happy." This manga is not depicting an open marriage, it is depicting plain old cheating. The two are not the same. The first is relatively rare, while the second is rather common. Equating the two and then calling the second one a "fantasy" because the first one exists is nonsensical.

And if you were not talking about open marriages, then your post makes even less sense, which is really saying something.

As for the manga itself, I am seconding the person who said they hated every single character here. I eagerly await further chapters~

Lol well I'm glad Kitta Izumi is having fun.

Stopped reading for a while because I couldn't stand Liz. Glad to see she just got even worse. After having no more expectations for this Manga to actually become good and realizing this at its core is just everything that Kitta Izumi would love to have in her dream Manga, I can now just enjoy it for the train wreck it is.

You know, this could actually work. My problem with such an approach is that those were not the expectations I had in the beginning. Bottom line is, Kitta should have taken the crappy dorama approach from the get-go, it would create different expectations and perhaps attract an audience that would follow it for that content.

SPEAKING OF SHIPS, do you all remember which one was your first ship? (full yuri works like Strawberry Panic! don't count!) mine was without a doubt KagamixKonata

I really wish my first ship was some obscure rare pairing... or even a crackship... but instead it was NanoFate...

I just like how the name of... whatever this is, causes the actual thread to be titled "Delete this discussion".

It is interesting to look at this through the perspective of passing time, though. NanoFate is the perfect example, it has so many doujins because it was insanely popular and also because it has been accumulating doujins for 12 years on this site. But if you look at it from purely present point, its time has passed. In 2019 there were only four NanoFate doujins uploaded here, and in 2020 so far not a single one.

last edited at Nov 11, 2020 6:59PM

^Lol- as far as I know they have always had lots of support. Besides himawari and sakurako they are the most canon and obvious ship.

I don't disagree with HimaSaku. They already filled up a marriage certificate. But YuiKyoko, enlighten me please. Lol

Pretty sure elevown was referring to Ayano/Kyouko.

Yes, I agree. It's possibly more a story about emotions and self-perception than one strictly about gender or sexuality.

I would even argue that the theme of perception by others, and how this clashes with a person's actual inner self, is the central premise of this doujin. People have, in my opinion, gotten too focused on Shizuru and her apparent death wish; this is actually fairly understandable, since death and suicide are pretty strong elements to use in almost any work. But I think their usage here was done in an effort to show just how strongly people perceive Kei as self-sufficient. Even a girl who will literally remove herself from Kei's life by outright killing herself still thinks Kei will be fine in the end.

I think Kei's perceived emotional detachment is what the author was exploring here, and Shizuru's approaching suicide was merely a tool used to this end. Of course, the kicker for us as readers is that we know Kei is not actually detached, it is merely how others see her.

And the irony is that Pekoe's post was prompted by someone who most definitely can not be described as Bug's friend, who merely tried to use the discussion in this thread in a sorely misplaced attempt to ingratiate themselves to the staff (the comment in question was posted in another thread and has since been deleted by Pekoe), completely failing to realise that the conversation about Bug was not actually off-topic in an off-topic thread.

Ooh, intrigue and subterfuge in Dynasty threads? I guess there could be something in a name.

To be honest, it was not much in the way of "intrigue and subterfuge". A poster ignited a round of Bug bashing in another thread, where it was completely off-topic and derailed the discussion for a while. Pekoe put an end to it, at which point the original poster did their usual shtick of thanking the staff for doing their job (I know it looks insane when it comes from the same person who ignited the whole thing, but that has literally been their thing for years now) and tried to score brownie points by linking the Cafe thread, specifically the discussion about Bug. "Look, look, teacher, they are doing it here as well." Pekoe deleted this comment when she cleaned up the thread in question, and then posted here, affirming that the talk about Bug in the Cafe was fine.

The unnamed poster I am talking about hated Bug, hence why I found it ironic that the Kase person implied Pekoe was responding to the perceived hurt of Bug's friends.

I got the same vibe, but then decided to assume that Shizuru wasn't the short-haired person on the first page, simply because Kei's attitude seems somewhat different on both pages, even considering that the circumstances are different. Ultimately, I figured that it was just the obligatory male who gets shot down to establish that a character is lesbian.

Your take does not fit, though. It was the guy who broke up with Kei, not the other way around. He felt miserable and worthless, and Kei was "perfect at everything", "like you don't need anyone else", driving him to feel even more worthless by comparison. This was not about his gender, it was about Kei's personality, or rather, how other people perceive her.

Since the subject of sexuality was never actually brought up, I would sooner assume Kei is bi. She even says to the guy that she liked him after he states he felt she did not, and she seemed genuinely surprised he would think that way - this is Kei's main problem, she appears to others as indifferent and distant.

This is why she asks Shizuru if being with her feels draining.

Also, the guy's thoughts about Kei being "perfect" and self-sufficient are mirrored, in a way, by Shizuru saying in the end how Kei will be "fine" and will easily find someone new. Kei's thoughts indicate this is at least a partially true prediction, noting that she will not really stay alone, but it also shows she will be anything but fine. Her main problem seems to be the way others perceive her, as being self-sufficient to the point of appearing indifferent.

last edited at Nov 7, 2020 6:25PM

So, if I get your meaning right, it's ok to make fun of that banned little troll BugDevil, even if his friends (two, by my count) get hurt?

Oh, goodie goodie goodie. ◠‿◠ Thanks, and you too take care!

Actively "making fun" of someone who was banned ages ago looks rather pathetic. Bug was a really shitty poster, and I am not at all saddened they are gone, but your attitude just looks excessively childish. If that is your thing, though, knock yourself out.

And the irony is that Pekoe's post was prompted by someone who most definitely can not be described as Bug's friend, who merely tried to use the discussion in this thread in a sorely misplaced attempt to ingratiate themselves to the staff (the comment in question was posted in another thread and has since been deleted by Pekoe), completely failing to realise that the conversation about Bug was not actually off-topic in an off-topic thread.

last edited at Nov 7, 2020 6:16PM

Wow, cutesexyrobutts yuri, this is a rare treat~ Delicious~~

There seem to be a lot of shots of the white-haired girl looking kinda conflicted about the treatment Lyu Geyang is getting from the rest of the group, but she doesn't stand up to them. She carries her own bag in ch.1 and is not shown making fun of her in class or make her run errands, is always just shown in the background of bullying, sorta as a spectator. It feels like her wanting to get closer might have been genuine but was torpedoed by the rest of the clique. Instead of 3.5 being a snippet of the future I would rather see the author explore that part if all of the above was intentional.

If it wasn't intentional then the author should work on that, because it really feels like there is more to be told there.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Even during the final argument that broke the camel's back, she was just standing in the background with an obviously conflicted look on her face. So the ending felt somewhat incomplete, I genuinely expected to see more about her.

And this actually plays into another problem I have with this. If you cut out the first chapter, you would have a hard time figuring out she was crushing on Chen Yue. This started out as blatant romantic angst, Liu Geyang was tormented by her feelings not only because of her low self-esteem, but also because she fell for another girl, which seemed to outright double her insecurities.

She then settled on thinking that being friends (specifically with Chen Yue) would be "more normal" and would at least allow her to spend time with the girl, which seems like pretty standard "I will take any crumbs I can get" line of reasoning when an outright romance seems impossible.

But this gets pushed one step further into wanting more friends in general, and the rest of the story from then on focuses on that aspect.

The central premise that the first chapter introduced was Liu Geyang's angsty crush on Chen Yue, it was not her general lack of friends and loneliness, but the latter ideas end up as the focus of the last two thirds of the story, with the romantic aspect never really brought up again.

You can still glimpse that she felt more than just friendly attachment for Chen Yue purely from the focus of some of the panels, but after spending literally the whole first chapter setting these feelings up in copious detail, mere glimpses seem somewhat inadequate.

I still overall liked the story, it depicted both the bullying and Liu Geyang's reactions and thoughts in a very realistic light, and the rejection of the apology felt immensely satisfying. But narratively speaking, I feel it could have been better structured. As it is, the first chapter sets the central premise, but that central premise goes literally nowhere (in the sense that it is never again brought up) and the story shifts its focus on other themes.

@Tamahime Well, you got me to dust off my Waldeyer for the first time in half a decade (and I did not even click on those links, lmao). And yeah, I have to correct myself. One third of the heart is to the right of the median plane, two thirds are to the left of it. So yes, it is primarily located on the left side. The mistake I made was to confuse the median plane and its neat divide into thirds with the sternum itself, which actually has width and expands equally to both sides of said plane (for some reason, I placed the right third of the heart under the sternum, but then treated the left two thirds as being left of the sternum, which only one of them is).

So if talking about the sternum rather than the median plane, roughly two thirds of the heart are behind the breastbone (rather than only one third), and the remaining third protrudes under left ribs.

last edited at Oct 28, 2020 5:12PM

It's a myth, btw, that the heart is located on the side. Its actually right under the sternum in the middle, because that's the most protected area. The reason you feel the beat stronger on the left is because of the position and function of the chambers and arteries.

...since when was this considered a myth?? The heart is positioned asymmetrically, with only about a third of it being actually behind the sternum. Two thirds are on the left side.

last edited at Oct 28, 2020 10:01AM

Honestly, I can see her being bullied for this. I mean, it is even outright presented that her condition was merely an excuse for others to single her out. There is no actual reasoning behind it, like there is none behind basically all bullying. If anything, what makes this unrealistic is that we are not shown the bullying getting ten times worse after she started being openly gay with the other girl, or that the other girl was not bullied herself merely for approaching the outcast.

You are gay, Ayaka.

Here is the thing. The ending as it is can actually pretty easily be read as them being together (I am talking about just that scene in a vacuum; then again, that scene literally is in a vacuum since we have no idea how it came about). I suspect this was the outcome most readers wanted (personally, I was in the "hope it stays unrequited" camp, but I suspect I was in the minority). And yet, the overwhelming number of comments have been negative. When you literally give your audience the outcome most of them wanted, and they hate it, I think it is safe to assume you failed pretty hard at basic storytelling.

last edited at Oct 22, 2020 9:05AM