Forum › Nettaigyo wa Yuki ni Kogareru discussion
For some reason (let’s call it the quality of the writing), plot developments and pacing that I might find annoying in other series I’m perfectly fine with here.
Yes, I love the Koyuki-Konatsu interactions, so I miss those, but I find Koyuki’s struggles with finding her place in the world to be very touching. She’s a nice change of pace from characters who are either truly troubled in some toxic way or else perfectly fine and unfazeable.
She is deeply troubled in a way—many stories would have gone with, “Found a friend—now all is well. Next comes couplehood,” but Koyuki shows that even when you change yourself for the better in some fundamental way it doesn’t mean that the next stage will be all smooth sailing.
Being admired and surrounded by people who care about you does tend to calm the waters a bit, though.
Shoujo ai is made up term by westerners, because they needed a way to market SFW and NSFW yuri and needed a clear distinction.
And yet despite this supposed distinction, most yuri manga are either tagged both, or just yuri even when it's SFW. Talk about useless
Eh, that's because Shoujo Ai -isn't- really a term made up by westerners. It's a term used in japan, but it just refers to the girl's love genre in general, as does Yuri. They're just synonyms. There is no real distinction in how the japanese industry uses the terms, from what I've seen. But somehow this idea that yuri=sexytiems and shoujo ai=innocents got started and they started getting used as seperate tags with supposedly seperate meanings.
But you honestly never know at the beginning of a series where it's gonna go by the end, and since the terms mean the same thing in Japan, you routinely see series marketed as "girl's love" (shoujo ai) that end up having sexual conduct, or series marketed as "yuri" that don't, so western fans that think the tags started out in japan make wrong assumptions about what the series is going to be.
It's actually REALLY EXASPERATING.
ahhh yes, the classic
Girl A:im going somewhere faraway, i wonder if she will be lonely?
Girl B:im really lonely but i must not show that to girl A so she wont be worried and leave any regrets behind
Girl B:proceeds to show how happy she is for Girl A
Girl A:Completely misunderstood Girl B's intention and assumes that no one cares about her leavingwhy must you do this
Ahh teenagers... so many misunderstandings lol
P much. And let's be fair to Koyuki here - she's facing the always-daunting life milestone of "leaving the nest" and isn't exactly a person with a solid grasp of her own feelings in the first place.
I think the person above was just being humorous, not serious at all so I just joked back lol
last edited at Mar 29, 2019 10:05AM
"I do not define it as yuri"
Oh no, the author poked a hole in the ship.
Time to abandon.
Well, with the whole girlship stuff it was a predictable conclusion.
Can I get some F in the chat?
That sucks, could've been a great slow burn. Now all we can hope for is the friendship triangle.
"I do not define it as yuri"
Oh no, the author poked a hole in the ship.
Time to abandon.
Well, with the whole girlship stuff it was a predictable conclusion.
Ending's gonna be a X year time skip where they will meet again together with their child/children and they will bond about housewife stuff now(i cant believe i just wrote this,im in paint).
last edited at Mar 29, 2019 11:19AM
No.... I was so convinced too with the whole ‘why did you call out to me?’ thing. Plus it was tagged as shoujo ai where I read it.
But I guess there’s nothing we can do about it. I’ll read to the end unless a male lead is introduced.
Quick, make fanfic and fan art to soothe the burn.
last edited at Mar 29, 2019 11:36AM
She said her work isn't yuri for her because that's not her intention. But if readers see it like that, she doesn't mind. Her goal is clear. She also said "girls ship", the word used to promote this series, refers to friendship.
That being said, the story is cute and the struggles of the main character feel real. So who cares about them remaining friends forever, I only care about good writing. I have plenty of explicit yuri that I enjoy so I won't complain about this one not being part of them. Being good is enough.
last edited at Mar 29, 2019 11:32AM
Looks like this is yet another example of an author dropping a 16-ton weight on the obvious attraction between two girls for the sake of angst and drawn-out drama.
Well, luckily things do seem to go a bit better on the yuri front in general, but it's still a bit frustrating when this happens to a series I used to like. I still haven't forgotten about Reina x Kumiko, or Hikari x Futaba!
Ah well, I consider this one dropped. Moving on....
last edited at Mar 29, 2019 12:09PM
She said her work isn't yuri for her because that's not her intention. But if readers see it like that, she doesn't mind. Her goal is clear. She also said "girls ship", the word used to promote this series, refers to friendship.
That being said, the story is cute and the struggles of the main character feel real. So who cares about them remaining friends forever, I only care about good writing. I have plenty of explicit yuri that I enjoy so I won't complain about this one not being part of them. Being good is enough.
Word. Hell, just that “you finally came out” scene alone was worth the price of admission.
Well, you know what I mean . . .
The way the crowd here is basically screaming blasphemy is more than a little amusing.
Well I won't be dropping this, from the start it wasn't marked as yuri but I enjoy it as much as a yuri work... Still sad that it was confirmed like that but hey, that's still WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY better than sudden shota het with undertones of homophobia ... cough
Anyway I take it as "while is not yuri, it doesn't mean they can't be together that way eventually" after all, they're not your average "friends"
Gotta say, reading some coments here and in Mangadex regarding people's displeasure with the way the story is going, as well as the reactions to the tweet from the Mnagaka are kinda disheartening :c
Currently, this one and "ani no yome to kurashite imasu" are my favorite mangas at the moment, and while I understand where other people's opinions are coming from I've still enjoyed pretty much every chapter, and I want to remain optimistic about the Author knowing where she is going with her story.
Anyway I take it as "while is not yuri, it doesn't mean they can't be together that way eventually" after all, they're not your average "friends"
Very much so, yes. Especially with the way she's saying that while she's not seeing it as yuri, there readers are free to consider it one.
The way the crowd here is basically screaming blasphemy is more than a little amusing.
Well, it's all about promises not kept. In manga an anime all too often an attraction gets established between two female characters, only for the writers to then go "Fooled ya! They don't have teh ghey. What, you think we're perverts or something?" And to drive the point home the girls either get a boyfriend, get separated forever by whatever means, or have a falling out over nothing.
And no, I absolutely don't care one iota what a writer says on Twitter or in an interview. This about what is happening within the story, and within this particular one the writer establishes a truckload of subtext between Koyuki and Konatsu, only to bail out later on. Koyuki's worries about her future would have a lot more weight in the context of her relationship with Konatsu, but the writer practically ejects Konatsu from the the story and then replaces her with some random other character. Why? It could all be down to incompetence, but stuff like this happens so often in manga and anime that I have become quite cynical.
Like I said, it is getting a bit better, but for every series that is serious about attraction between girls we get a hundred that are like this one.
last edited at Mar 29, 2019 2:39PM
The problem is that Koyuki reads as a queer character. Going through the chapters from start to finish makes me feel that she's so queer for Konatsu that many established lesbian and bi characters don't really compare when you pull in all of the material/scenes and also look at stuff such as tankobon volume covers (which are very romantic). Koyuki might not be fully aware of it, but lot of her behavior seems to suggest she does on some level. Like that toy panic in ch. 18 or the fit in bed in ch. 15 after she sees Konatsu called her and many more besides.
So unless author is willing to do respectful confession -> rejection or address it in some clear way at some point, a major character element of a story will feel unaddressed to say the least. Especially since she's the main character even more than Konatsu is right now.
last edited at Mar 29, 2019 2:20PM
Even if that'd be more blasphemous, but personally I just don't like this wishy-washy sorta attitude that comes with "it's up to the reader!" I mean, if this were an adventure story that's 95% about defeating a big bad evil and the author for the sake of pacing doesn't go into relationships much, and leaves that sort of thing open - sure. Good even, possibly. But this seems to be 95% about their personal development and their relationship specifically - and then saying "but you can read whatever you want into it" is a cheap cop out of sorts to me. Like a mystery story where the culprit is up to the reader. ^^
Doesn't make the manga worse necessarily, but I still find that pretty bleh.
last edited at Mar 29, 2019 2:22PM
Idle curiosity- does anyone in here actually speak/read Japanese? Because the difference between “this isn’t Yuri, it’s not gay” and “I don’t think ‘Yuri’ is sufficient to fully describe their relationship” or something like that is subtle enough that I don’t at all trust Bing Translate to sort it out for me.
I would take "I do not define it as yuri" as saying "I don't like pigeonholing things".
The way the crowd here is basically screaming blasphemy is more than a little amusing.
Well, it's all about promises not kept. In manga an anime all too often an attraction gets established between two female characters, only for the writers to then go "Fooled ya! They don't have teh ghey. What, you think we're perverts or something?" And to drive the point home the girls either get a boyfriend, get separated forever by whatever means, or have a falling out over nothing.
And no, I absolutely don't care one iota what a writer says on Twitter or in an interview. This about what is happening within the story, and within this particular one the writer establishes a truckload of subtext between Koyuki and Konatsu, only to bail out later on. Koyuki's worries about her future would have a lot more weight in the context of her relationship with Konatsu, but the writer practically ejects Konatsu from the the story and then replaces her with some random other character. Why? It could all be down to incompetence, but stuff like this happens so often in manga and anime that I have become quite cynical.
Like I said, it is getting a bit better, but for every series that is serious about attraction between girls we get a hundred that are like this one.
I like how you're effectively declaring the series ruined FOREVER on the basis of one Twitter post of ambiguous meaning, and please don't try to claim that isn't related to the outburst quoted. Show us on this doll where the bad author touched you...?
last edited at Mar 29, 2019 3:58PM
Translation of Makoto Hagino's tweets (linked above) for the people who don't trust machine translation~~
"I have a certain way of how I want to tell my story, but that doesn't apply to the reader. People should have freedom of expression which applies to both the creator and consumer. I don't intend to define my work as yuri, but the reader is free to approach the work how they want. Rather than denying the reader's interpretation, I want to keep drawing what I want to draw, believing someday my opinions/ideas and worldview will be accepted".
https://mobile.twitter.com/93choco
last edited at Mar 29, 2019 4:20PM
Looooooooooooooong time skulker, first time commenter.
Uh, so, yeah. That's unfortunate I guess that the author would say 'not necessarily Yuri', but I don't see this as a classical Yuri structure either.
The girls don't even realize they like each other, you're just supposed to like that slow burn friendship.
But how much more gay does it get than, "She's so dense...geez!"
Why are they dense, why is everybody but you so "dense"? 'Because they don't realize that I'm lonely!' Why didn't you tell them? 'Because I just can't, gosh!'
lol.
Classic teenager. I don't think Koyuki Honami-sempai realizes she needs or even likes or might like Konatsu. She needs friends because she's lonely, she's too young for love in that sense simply because she's far from understanding that level of companionship. She needs to 'not be alone' more than she needs her 'body satisfied'. It's clearly a Yuriship, soft Yuri(friend)ship.
Because of Koyuki's ignorance, the furthest this could go is her proclaiming to Konatsu, 'Tokyo will make me so lonely, be my friend in Tokyo! Ah, I'm so embarrassed!'. So they will be Tokyo friends, very good friends, they will support each other. There could be a time skip where Konatsu promises she will go to school in Tokyo too and they will reconnect there. Maybe they'll even move in together in Tokyo, but they will be friends. Koyuki just can't admit she needs people and that she needs people to accept her because she's grown up alone and apart from everyone over time (besides of course her father and family, but even they don't really understand her, do they?).
Clearly, her loneliness is a huge mental block for Koyuki. It's beyond even expressing herself, she clearly knows what she wants to do, what she likes to do, but she's realized she can't do everything alone, which is a huge step.
If anything, it's like proto-Yuri, it's the Yuri that comes before the proper Yuri and lays the foundation for a Yuri. Pretty brilliant idea actually. Or she could be het, we don't know. But Koyuki hasn't had a serious girlship with someone her age before, that's why Konatsu-chan is such a big deal.
Even she doesn't know if she wants more than basic girlship or the reasons or motivations for more. Her life is too hard and complicated already right now. She's so lonely!
(Enjoy reading ya'll's posts by the way, they always make me laugh!)
last edited at Mar 29, 2019 4:59PM