Forum › Posts by anim8tur

joined Mar 8, 2019

Ooo. The teacher seems to know Houjou and Mai. Hopefully she'll let them off with a warning after Tae manages to use her Onee-San charm her. If not then I wonder if this means we'll be meeting Tae's in-laws next? I love how the author resolves things fairly quickly. It's a nice balance of drama, comedy, and of course that very questionable romance.

joined Mar 8, 2019

Hmm…. I can see Tae being the wonderful Onee-San Mai knows and befriend Houjou as well. Houjou seems like the typical rich but neglected girl. Tae would have no problem filling in for busy adults but how the author will achieve this result is what’s got me curious.

joined Mar 8, 2019

Also… the plot shall thicken? Is the new girl meant to be a rival? If so, who would she be after? Mai or Tae?

Mai makes more sense but I’m sort of hoping it’ll be Tae….

joined Mar 8, 2019

It's their own fault for just going with a gut feeling. Someone like Mai existing is more plausible than some weird alien space brain time travel dilation movie plot, it's just that this condition can cause health problems, if the excessive growth is not halted somehow. It happens when there is some kind of abnormality in pituitary gland, which handles production of growth hormone. Here's 11-year old boy with gigantism, next to his friends.

https://www.kktv.com/content/news/11-year-old-gentle-giant-battles-rare-tumor-causing-gigantism-482283821.html

So someone should be called out if they demonstrate a different mindset when they’re just having harmless fun? Or if it is hurtful, what about it so bothersome? -not sarcasm I genuinely want to know.

I guess it reads like some of the opposition isn’t coming from a “I don’t think this is a joke” or “your joke is not funny.” Or “your idea/opinion is different than mine” and more of a “you’re so wrong because I’m the only one who is right.” mindset that I understand…. It’s just a little strange to see that type of seriousness on this particular thread when the subject matter itself is a so far lighthearted out of the box lewd romantic comedy? Then again who I am to determine how people should react.

And yes, the “older/younger than she looks” trope can happen in real life. But it’s not just about her looks but also Mai maybe acting “flirty” for a 10 year old that needs to be explained/poked fun at by some.

joined Mar 8, 2019

I guess the only point I'm really hung up on is where did she pick up these things? She very clearly has a strict mother - one whom I suspect doesn't allow her to spend her time unsupervised watching TV dramas or internet lurking, where such behavior is abundant. I think I just want the author to have some sort of comedic reveal (or even an explanation) about the whole thing because I don't want this child to be acting in an erotically flirtatious manner completely naturally. I'm on-board for full-blown degeneracy, but if it can be avoided, I'd at least feel better about my enjoyment of this. I want this to end up being a single serving of Girl Scout Thin Mint cookies instead of an entire package of Double Stuf Oreos. Both are enjoyable and bad for me, but one leaves me feeling so much worse.

What if it's something Mai picked up from her mom who is also unknowingly putting out flirty vibes that land her in situations and that's why she's protective? - Not what I believe of course, just offering up an idea.

joined Mar 8, 2019

Let me give you an analogy. You know YuruYuri? It's an immensely popular series with zillions of followers. The girls in that manga are in 1st or 2d year middle school, they are barely older than Mai. Well, get a load of this: nobody, and I mean nobody, has ever ever speculated that they are actually a bunch of 25-year-olds masquerading as seventh and eighth graders. The canon says that they are kids in middle school, so everyone thinks that's exactly what they are. Claiming otherwise wouldn't seem fun, just weird.

Not to be all Schrodinger's Situation here but I don't recall YuruYuri dealing with a similar "Older/Younger Than She Looks" dilemma. Only watched the Anime so I'm unclear if this issue is brought up in the manga.

But then why when it comes to BCO, even tho the canon is as strong as in YuruYuri, so many readers express such a strong reject of textual fact—coming up with explanations for what doesn't need to be explained and positing that Mai has to be an adult woman, even tho this idea creates a shitload of massive complications and is way more implausible, far-fetched and problematic than the simple canon?

The most seeming answer is: because they are uncomfortable with the given context. As for why they feel this way, well, I think I can guess... but that would be a speculation of mine so I won't say it.

I'm not denying some are indeed uncomfortable with the context but it's also possible that they're merely offering an even more farfetched and unlikely idea to the existing one simply for fun? Maybe I should stop putting my two cents in because like I said, I've only read the last two pages recently. And I'm going off on this particular comment that I've glanced at:

Waiting for the amnesia plot twist, where Mai has mentally regressed to grade-school age due to a head injury and her going to grade school/swim class is part of her recovery program. The occasional suave line/move on her part is part of the "real Mai" peeking through, who is a total flirt. M Night Shamalamadingdong twist is that Hitomi is her same-age (adult) sister/cousin/childhood friend who is playing along with her to help recover her memories. #WildAndBaselessSpeculation

This just reads like the comment was made for entertainment. I don't know if there are ones that claiming otherwise and clinging to their headcanons. People could be offering these as a way to explain off their discomfort or because they feel the story will be more compelling this way who really knows.

EDIT: They could also be explaining out of disbelief? Like the story is too unrealistic so are trying to apply real world scenario they find more likely/believable than a 10 year old having the body of 22 year old lingerie model.

last edited at Jul 15, 2022 6:45PM

joined Mar 8, 2019

You’re right—that was an assumption on my part, and the poster did clarify what they were responding to.

This story is quite challenging on several levels: ethically, sure, but also on the level of plausibility and consistency of characterization.

The main issue, what critics call an “interpretive crux,” is what exactly are we to make of Mai?

The basic story tropes here are not unfamiliar (age-gap, reverse size-gap, the younger character (apparently) coming on to the older one, etc.). But the extreme nature of the specifics (Mai’s age, her physical development, her seductive affect) are rarely seen outside of hentai. This kind of age-gap and “wholesome” just doesn’t compute (or rarely does—I imagine there must be some parallels in the wide universe of manga). So this story inherently does pose a lot of (at this point) unanswered questions.

But I think there’s an important distinction to be made between what the text (as authored) is doing and what people make up in their heads. A valid interpretive hypothesis needs to be based, however tentatively, in the specifics of the text.

In the case of predictions about uncompleted serial stories, there’s also the weaker “evidence” of typical genre tropes and conventions that might apply—stories often use these to signal where they’re going without being completely overt about it. This story doesn’t really allow readers to put much weight on such things, though, because of its unusual premises.

As I said, readers are free to fabulate on a story any way they like. But unless a theory is grounded in something in the text, it is, at best, not very helpful in positing answers to the story’s questions.

The posts I've read on this particular thread read like they're made for fun so far, like I said I'm not here often. I've only read the last two pages of the discussion recently. Apart from the whole marriage interview, this story has been comedic. The readers seem to be responding to the tone by posting their outrageous predictions/hopes. The plot is off kilter so it's understandably going to attract out of the box thinkers.

I don't believe I read a claim that their headcanons are canon. Maybe I missed the part where the headcanons were offered as definitive answers to the story's questions. Maybe I missed the questions posed. I'm reading that people are just sharing for fun and curiosity if they're attracting like minded readers but like I said, that's just me.

joined Mar 8, 2019

If you're talking to me, I believe that I did not attack anyone's intelligence. As to the idea that, for example, Mai is really an adult, that is indeed an example of "wishful thinking, a hypothesis, an exercise of the imagination." It may (theoretically speaking) even turn out to be true.

It wasn't directed toward you. It's a general broadcast based off the arguments I've come across, hence the etc. Though I will admit I try to avoid interacting with you. I'm not here often enough but when I do come across your comments, what you write comes off as condescending when you disagree. Perhaps that speaks more about myself and my issues than you.

But as far as the text goes, at this point there's absolutely no evidence that any such thing is remotely the case--it's a story that someone has made up in their head because the story as it actually is (so far) makes them uncomfortable. Readers are certainly free to do that. It still has nothing to do with the text the author has given us.

Why do you assume they're uncomfortable with the given context? Not attacking. Just curious because I only read one comment and they even tagged it as baseless. They could simply just be fabricating for fun.

joined Mar 8, 2019

We enjoy reading differently. Some people are content to just read the story as it is. Some like to theorize, to make predictions, to further exercise their imagination. Sure it's wishful thinking but if the reader can accept that their hypothesis/desired outcome is simply not in the cards then it's harmless.

We come here to share our thoughts and feelings. People will disagree. Perhaps provide context as to why to open discussion and not attack their intelligence/preference/etc. simply because we don't share similar POV?

last edited at Jul 15, 2022 2:08PM

joined Mar 8, 2019

The ending feels rushed seeing as we don't really know what happened with the other girls... but I'd say this was a manga worth reading. Loved the characters, the story, the progression kind of muddled through after Ch 15ish like there was intent to expand storylines and further complicate the plot but there was no follow through so it was wrapped up as neatly and quickly as possible. Regardless I still would love for this to be in my library.

I know opinions are divided but I'd say the author did a fantastic job. The characters were complicated yet it was easy comprehend why they did the things they did, even Yoru. I hope this gets picked up! Maybe Seven Seas will since it's done?!

anim8tur
joined Mar 8, 2019

Go after her! Tell her she cost you your future and now she owes you hers so the two of you can get married and scissor happily ever after!!! Man I hope the angst train only lasts one chapter... My heart won't be able to take an extended dramatic take of them not talking for more than two chapters. I hope this prompts an actual confession complete with a kiss so it cannot be negated by either party!

last edited at Mar 25, 2022 8:38PM

anim8tur
joined Mar 8, 2019

Awkward? Maybe her ex is going to the college she wants to go to? Either she asked for a tour/run through or her ex offered and that’s why it’s awkward?

Or! She wants to go visit another college and wants to take Nanoha on an over night trip by themselves?!?!

last edited at Nov 6, 2021 8:35PM

anim8tur
joined Mar 8, 2019

Oh no! Don't get discouraged Nagisa! Senpai is obviously projecting. Mashiro! She's in love with you too... They might take a step back because of misunderstanding feelings. If that happens, hopefully it'll be just one or two chapters. Hoping they'll kiss soon though! Maybe by next chapter?

joined Mar 8, 2019

Reply dump...

Idk if someone write it her, but atfer this chapter and when Fuuko said "im not their number one"... So she found out that Yuni is dating Nanase and decided to Yuni become her number one and steal her from Nanase.

That would be a good twist.

Idk I just kinda appreciate the reality of this writing. The girls are having a troubling relationship, and it’s really easy to be manipulated or exploited when you’re vulnerable and just want someone to appreciate you.

Totally agree. Well written because of how real the situation is and how the characters are acting. At this age, every thing feels extreme because you're experiencing things for the first time. You make mistakes along the way but hopefully they learn something from this.

Nanase is clearly more in love with volleyball than her girlfriend and there's a cultural reason...If she ultimately can't make time for her girlfriend such that they're both happy, they should break up and that's okay.

I don't know if it's the model per se. I don't exactly remember if she's doing this for college or hoping to get a career out of this? Right now it seems like it's fun for her and she's really good so she's getting proper recognition for her efforts so she's really happy and dedicated. And I get that it isn't healthy to center your world on your lover, but I think Yuni would be happy if she's thrown a bone here and there but as of now, it seems Nanase forgets about Yuni when volleyball and other people are around.

Yuni just wants to be with her girlfriend.... If she can't do that or if Nanase doesn't compromise after being told, they should break up and that's okay.

She loves her though so it's hard to let go for her. Right now, that one good thing her love does matters more than all the negative during the honeymoon phase. It's been six months so now things are starting to boil over and that good deed chip is starting to weigh less and less.

Fuuko is definitely the creepy one with her stalker tendencies, Even then, while she needs behavior correction, she's just a kid and can hopefully grow from here.

I see her more as an opportunist. Fuuko wants the girl she likes to feel loved and wanted and I'm all for it. She likes Yuni and sees an opening so she takes it. Right now she seems to be the one who can provide Yuni what she wants/needs so she feels like the better match and she knows it so she wants to prove it to Yuni. Of course I wouldn't be surprised if there's a twist about why she set her sights on Yuni.

spicy drama
i like Fuuko's angle, she's both manipulative and candid about the whole situation, interesting compared to the other two who can't be honest about their intentions or priorities.

Fuuko's making a point to be at the right place at the right time for Yuni. So far, she is the one who is most honest about what she wants. She's certainly brave. First outing herself at those boys and then now, throwing herself at a taken girl hoping what she does will land her the coveted number one spot.

joined Mar 8, 2019

Nanase is going to make it up to Yuni. Yuni will forgive Nanase because she loves her and she'll break things off with Fuuko. Yuni will be neglected by Nanase again and Fuuko will undoubtedly use the opportunity to cement her side piece status.

The question is will the cycle break? Will Yuni get sick of the back and forth with Nanase and choose Fuuko? Unlikely but you never know. Will Nanase discover and break things off? I feel like she'll find out but maybe be okay with sharing? I mean, she gets to focus on volleyball and doesn't have to worry about fulfilling girlfriend duties all the time since someone else is picking up her slack. Basically sex without responsibilities... And I'm pretty sure Fuuko can mindf*ck Nanase into feeling guilty and blaming herself.

Fuuko and Yuni are two mistresses that are hanging on in hopes of being updated to wife status. They are perfect for each other. Granted we don't know much about them but, from a logical standpoint, they'd fit each other better. They'd understand the other more and certainly would have time to devote to one another.

joined Mar 8, 2019

Hmmm... New girl definitely seems like she's a rival. Maybe new girl had the same sensei as Sakurako and wants to prove she's the better fighter now. Wonder if she'll turn into a romantic rival? Or maybe she'll be goth author's romantic interest.

joined Mar 8, 2019

^ man I really hope it doesn't go that way because then it'd just end up being like every other incest story. It would pretty much destroy every bit of meaning and character development these 4 chapters gave.

Not necessarily. Sena admitted her deepest secret and Kiku proves her love by accepting her. And that might be the kick in the pants Sena needs to move on.

As for Yuuna, if the incest be requited, a confession could just be cathartic because they both know how doomed a relationship between them would be. A sort of “I love you but we shouldn’t cuz how would we explain our relationship to our parents and we both found other people we can be happy with.” Doesn’t mean they’d end up together.

Who knows, maybe Kiku confessing to her sis triggers Yuuna’s old feelings for Kiku and that’s why she looks distraught in that one panel. Or this has a poly ending. Still lots of ways this can still go.

I’m rooting mostly for Kiku’s happiness tho! Everyone else’s top of course. But mostly Kiku so Sena, get over your sis and let Kiku love you.

joined Mar 8, 2019

The Love Triangle and Incest tags feel like they’re going to be used thoroughly… what if Yuuna started going out with Kiku to get over Sena? And then when her sister started withdrawing from her, Yuuna thought Sena figured her out so she randomly moved? I want to see Yuuna’s POV….

joined Mar 8, 2019

Kaori's probably going to ask Shizuku to live in her stead on her deathbed. It's the only way to avoid that suicide tag....

joined Mar 8, 2019

She isn't afraid of her gf finding out anything. She's afraid of the whole school finding out that she's dating another girl.

I think Yuni is afraid of her gf finding out too? Nanase’s backstory basically indicated that she and her former flame were ostracized when rumors popped up in her old school? Hence why Nanase isn’t as touchy with Yuni in public.

Yuni is probably afraid that Nanase will leave her if anyone else finds out or will leave because she’s been putting their stuff on blast on social media.

On a side note, totally agree with people. If you’re too busy and have goals/dreams that you know will take most of your time it’s probably not a good idea to have a girlfriend who doesn’t have the same mindset. But they are teenagers so I get there’s a lot of error by to be made by all parties. They wanna push certain limits and think “love will conquer all”…

Though I wouldn’t be surprised if Nanase is just a really good manipulator? Telling Yuni stuff to placate her and keep her so she’ll have someone to booty call. Don’t know how despicable things are going to get but fun ride so far.

anim8tur
Citrus + discussion 23 Sep 18:11
joined Mar 8, 2019

LOL. That would mean that Mei is half-yokai, which certainly would explain a great deal . . .

Apologies. I thought you were writing metaphorically. Like calling her mother an “icy b*tch” for ignoring her daughter this whole time. Sarcasm doesn’t read well for me because of lack of intonation.

last edited at Sep 23, 2021 6:13PM

anim8tur
Citrus + discussion 23 Sep 16:35
joined Mar 8, 2019

To me this has precisely the same status as saying, “It’s years of that coupled with the fact that Mei’s mother was an ice demon that did nothing but mold her into Turtle Mei.”

Nothing in the text contradicts my statement, it is congruent with Mei’s behavior in the story, and there’s no less evidence in the text for my statement than there is for yours.

Lack of maternal affection during formative years can certainly cause someone one to be emotionally stunted so it could definitely be a contributing factor to what makes Mei who she is.

anim8tur
Citrus + discussion 23 Sep 16:13
joined Mar 8, 2019

Thanks for clarifying the issue here. I would submit that making up a character motivation very nearly out of whole cloth absolutely is simply rewriting the story in order to suit a reader’s personal preference or to fit their preconceived notions. It involves conjuring up past events for which there is no evidence in the text (that Asshole Fiancé repeatedly molested Mei, that multiple adults raped her, etc.). It also entails ignoring or downplaying the in-text explanations for the character’s behavior (Mei’s rigid traditional upbringing, her disproportionate sense of responsibility because of the trauma of her father’s leaving the family, etc.).

Can’t speak for all but explaining Mei as a sexual assault victim does not diminish from her textual experiences. I certainly have not discounted or forgotten what she’s gone through with her family. The assault thing is additive for sure but not subtractive.

Her experiences with her family make her an easy prey for a sexual predator. Assault does not explain everything.

This conversation has probably dragged on long enough, sparked as it was by readers arguing “You all are too hard on poor Mei, since she’s a rape survivor.” Until the author supplies material to support that reading (as potentially could happen), I continue to assert: “Assumes facts not in evidence.”

The assault background is not my means to explain her slow pace progress. I’m on the boat where her upbringing and lack of parental guidance and affection coupled with her heiress duties made her detached, cold, and passive. It’s years of that coupled with sexual assault that did nothing but mold her into Turtle Mei. Not just whether or not she was repeatedly assaulted by her first fiancé.

anim8tur
Citrus + discussion 23 Sep 14:05
joined Mar 8, 2019

We're talking past each other at this point--I'm saying that people are making up a different story based on the barest shreds of evidence in the text, and in contradiction of the evidence of the overall text as a whole. As I've said again and again, if people want to use a story as the basis to conjure up further fantasies of their own, they're certainly welcome to do that.

But as I previously stated, seeing Mei as a sexual assault victim does not actually change any thing in the text? It's merely explaining her behavior. It doesn't change what or who she is (a deeply troubled individual who repressed her feelings to the point that they are disjointed for her and she does not know how to process them) which essentially does not take away from the story. Sure it adds something but it does not detract from the coming of age love story that Citrus is supposed to be.

Mistaking those imaginative rewritings of the text for the actual text is, of course, a mistake, albeit, as several people have pointed out, a relatively harmless one, until others pick up that mistake and start passing it off as a widely accepted reading of the text.

It's an explanation of character motivation not a rewrite of the story. What people are doing here is not a rewrite. Mei is still the stoic individual she has been written (regardless of whether or not people believe she is a victim of sexual assault) and she is still going to end up with Yuzu.

anim8tur
Citrus + discussion 23 Sep 13:32
joined Mar 8, 2019

This is fiction. A work of fantasy. A lot of absurd things happen in Citrus and + but it was entertaining because while the plot certainly was not rooted in reality, the characters (or rather their emotions) were. The confusion of a first love, first kiss, a sexual awakening, those were all rooted to reality that was heightened due to character's circumstances. Projection is unavoidable and should not be unwelcome as long as it's healthily discussed.

I know there's another discussion where headcanon completely took over but in the case of Citrus and Citrus+ people are not re-writing or purposely omitting the actual text to fit their desired outcome. They are merely reading the text in a way that helps them understand character motivations. If it helps them love the story and the characters more, then what's the actual harm? Does it damage the text if people find a way to further explain Mei's behavior? Does seeing Mei as a victim of sexual assault lessen the story which is essentially about two very different step sisters who are in love with each other?

It's completely human to want to connect and if that's the way a person reads, then why the need to condemn them for how they enjoy the works just because it's not a method some might prefer?

last edited at Sep 23, 2021 1:39PM