Well, that's classic Death Of the Author stuff, and valid as far as audience takeaway and literary critique goes. But in terms of psychology, again, they're not real people. So you're left with interrogating how much psychology the author understands, and how much they're bound to get wrong.

Another interesting example of how the work can be perceived as something completely other than what the other intended it for is Fahrenheit 451. Side note, really enjoyed the direction this thread went to

There's also the question of whether the characters are intended to be realistic or relatable. While I think the quote a few posts above is interesting, I feel that it's more like the author's intent vs. the audience's perception.

Since we're on this particular thread, let's consider the case of a violent/abusive erotic story. There are many reasons for writing such a story. Perhaps it is simply the author's fetish. Perhaps it is a way to deal with something in their past, or an emotion or desire they have. Perhaps they want to make a statement or start a debate about abusive relationships. Or perhaps they simply want to make the reader feel uncomfortable.

I think that unless there is a clear misunderstanding of something on the part of the reader, neither side are wrong, and even if a reader does misunderstand a message or something that the author/story is trying to convey, that still doesn't invalidate their experience. The thing about fiction as opposed to factual litterature, is that the reader's experience is pretty much the whole point, and whether that experience is what the author had in mind or not is, in the end, largely irrelevant.

Well, those are my thoughts.

last edited at Jan 30, 2017 6:52PM

The thing about fiction as opposed to factual litterature, is that the reader's experience is pretty much the whole point, and whether that experience is what the author had in mind or not is, in the end, largely irrelevant.

Couldn't've put better, Roppo.

It's really weird how the one lady really can hurt the other masochist like she wishes.... or is there something in the innocent one who's just waiting to be freed and do those stuff?? O_O Is it easy to break a finger or do more to a loved one?

im going to be honest this is grossing me out XD

wtf is this shit 0/10

wtf is this shit 0/10

Something you don't understand, dear.

Hahaha look at the room for two and then this! I DIG ITTTTTTTTT

Can someone explain why their relationship works as it does? I get that the long haired one gets turned on by seeing her partners anguished face as she hurts her, as that just goes to show she really loves her. But what about the other one? What gets her all hot and bothered? And what does it mean that she wants someone to fuck her heart up? From what i am getting, i think that the long haired girl was abused when she was small, or grew in that environment. Thus so, she hates seeing people enjoy the pains of others, but loves when people anguish at the pain of others. And the other one might have been spoiled as a kid, and now just wants someone to break her. Am i on track with my assumptions?

Ah it could had been worse, they both have real deep issues to work on, that's for sure xD I liked it

I loved it for as fucked up as it was, it's nice to go away from all the fluff sometimes. Hmm, probably uncomfortable question : Does masochism equals self-hatred or self-hatred is just a part of it? Or not at all?

Masochism just means they enjoy receiving pain, nothing to do with self-hatred. Also wow this story was really interesting. The dynamic between the two somehow fit each other really well.

I loved it for as fucked up as it was, it's nice to go away from all the fluff sometimes. Hmm, probably uncomfortable question : Does masochism equals self-hatred or self-hatred is just a part of it? Or not at all?

Masochism just means you enjoy pain and although self hatred is not required it is most often present on some level.

So this is definitely in need of a BDSM tag because that's pretty much the focus of the whole story.

This really was an interesting read.

last edited at Sep 19, 2018 1:21AM

Want more.. For science

Well, this was a unique experience

Never read a story that was painful to finish

This story and the comments about it caused me to come to an epiphany of sorts in regards to sadomasochism, more specifically, I think I already knew this on some level but this story caused me to actually think about it and put it into words. So, I came to the conclusion that there are three broad types of sadomasochism: physical, pride, and emotional is what I have dubbed them for now. These can exist independently but are by no means exclusive of any of the others. Some others in this thread seem to have come to similar conclusions but none really went in depth which is why I will since I feel this very much helps in understanding this story.
The first one, physical S&M, is probably the most iconic, the one most people think of when they hear sadomasochism. This is the enjoyment of giving and/or receiving physical pain. I don't think this one needs much more explanation, I think most people already understand this one well enough. Iori seems to be a physical masochist and Kanan is very clearly not a physical sadist.
The second, pride S&M (I don't particularly like the sound of this one, so I am open to ideas for alternative names), is probably the second most well-known type though seems to be, in my (admittedly quite limited) experience, the most common form. This one is about humiliation, being demeaned and degraded. This one is also fairly straight forward and isn't relevant to this manga so I won't go into further detail on it.
The third and most important type here is emotional S&M. This is the one that seems to be the least common, or at least the least acknowledged, type and is about emotional anguish. This is the one that I would like to be able to explain more thoroughly since I feel many people don't seem to understand it, or the masochism side of it anyway, but I can't because this is the only one that I can't really seem to understand myself. I am somewhat of a physical and pride masochist myself and I can sort of understand all three forms of sadism, but I can't get my head around how someone derives enjoyment out of their own emotional suffering. I am genuinely curious if anyone has any ideas on this.
Even though I don't really have a good explanation of emotional S&M it is the one that I feel is most important to this story as both of the girls seem to fit in here, Iori seems to be an emotional sadist while Kanan is an emotional masochist. This is important because it is what separates their relationship from outright abuse. If Kanan weren't an emotional masochist, if she didn't get enjoyment or fulfilment out of the anguish she feels when made to hurt Iori than this would just be outright emotional abuse. It is also part of why I don't believe, as one person suggested earlier, that Kanan is actually a physical sadist and just hasn't come to terms with it yet. Furthermore, I feel that Kanan actually being a sadist would make this a much more tragic story because what that person failed to acknowledge, is that Iori outright states that she does not want her partner to enjoy hurting her, in fact, she seems to want a partner who actively dislikes doing so (which to me potentially indicates emotional sadism). Thus if Kanan did come to enjoy causing Iori pain, they would likely break up leaving them both unfulfilled.
Another thing that fully clicked thanks to reading this is just how much S&M is conflated with dominance and submission. I noticed several people in this thread seemed to be unsure who was the dom and who was the sub. While I think many people have come to realize that being a dom does not mean being a sadist and that being a sub isn't the same as being a masochist, it seems that some haven't fully realized that the reverse is also true, excepting cases where someone is a switch or a sadomasochist (both sadist and masochist). I found it quite clear that Iori was the dom and Kanan the sub, all of the sexual/sadomasochistic interactions between the two were both initiated and directed by Iori with Kanan just doing what she was told, Kanan even thinks at one point that she can't resist Iori's commands.
p.s. Sorry for the wall of text.

Please, fuck me up...
nosebleed

Now this is real BDSM. Idk why but I’m a masochist too (I like to be scolded and verbally abused sometimes) so I find it kinda hot ;-)

Dang. Forgot this was written by the same person who writes Futaribeya.

The art is so cute. The story is so dark. Yet it works so perfectly together.

https://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=72375286
https://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=72375265
https://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=72375217

I like this kind of stuff much.

I don't like BDSM, but I do like creepiness and dysfunctional characters, so this was neat.

Masochistic top (enjoys physical pain) meets masochistic bottom (enjoys emotional pain)?

Funny how despite having the most morbid relation, this one at least have the two girls being in love with each other and not cheating.

woohoo smash my heart into pieces and fuck me up