Forum › The Guy She Was Interested in Wasn't a Guy At All discussion

joined Jul 23, 2019

Here, clearly, she thinks her "oshi" is an older boy.

Does she actually calls Mitsuki her "oshi" in the Japanese original?

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Ke_Zukulenzia posted:

Here, clearly, she thinks her "oshi" is an older boy.

Does she actually calls Mitsuki her "oshi" in the Japanese original?

Yes.

Unknown-min
joined May 7, 2022

Ke_Zukulenzia posted:

Here, clearly, she thinks her "oshi" is an older boy.

Does she actually calls Mitsuki her "oshi" in the Japanese original?

Yes.

ngl that’s kinda cute

180
joined Mar 21, 2017

Just so you guys know, the author recently did an interview about this series. They posted about it today.

There was a discussion on it in the Discord server yesterday, one line in particular drew attention. The author said she would not call this manga "yuri", stating it is more a story about "affection/ friendship between girls". That said, there was some debate on whether she was talking about the story as a whole (including the parts not yet written) or if was she simply referring to the story so far and was expressing doubt as to where she would take it eventually.

I think the author said they wouldn’t put their work (this manga in specific) in the yuri box but they like working with the theme of women and women’s love. Not calling your work yuri doesn’t mean you won’t call it women’s love… I think. But yeah, maybe Aya and Mitsuki might end up as just being friends and that wouldn’t make the message of the story of them bonding over music any less wholesome.

Going by Google translate in that interview, i noticed the word Sexuality was used so i wonder if her reluctance to call it yuri is related to that.

last edited at Jun 23, 2022 6:10PM

Ezgif.com-resize%20(6)
joined Jun 6, 2020

Yeah I think it's more that its more gay but not horny gay which is different

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Yeah I think it's more that its more gay but not horny gay which is different

That is almost certainly not the reason. You are talking about the difference between "yuri" (having horny/sexual content) and "shoujo ai" (pure stuff, not horny). The only problem is that this is a division entirely made up by the western fans. In Japan, "yuri" is used for both horny and non-horny works without any difference whatsoever (and "shoujo ai" in Japan refers to lolicon material, just for reference).

If a Japanese author does not want to use the yuri label, that decision has nothing to do with the levels of horniness in their work. The whole idea that there are separate terms for "horny" and "non horny" material within the same genre does not exist in Japan.

last edited at Jun 25, 2022 2:49AM

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

Yeah I think it's more that its more gay but not horny gay which is different

That is almost certainly not the reason. You are talking about the difference between "yuri" (having horny/sexual content) and "shoujo ai" (pure stuff, not horny). The only problem is that this is a division entirely made up by the western fans. In Japan, "yuri" is used for both horny and non-horny works without any difference whatsoever (and "shoujo ai" in Japan refers to lolicon material, just for reference).

If a Japanese author does not want to use the yuri label, that decision has nothing to do with the levels of horniness in their work. The whole idea that there are separate terms for "horny" and "non horny" material within the same genre does not exist in Japan.

Or if it does, yuri is on the softer side of it, see for example Minase Ruruu's thoughts on this.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Or if it does, yuri is on the softer side of it, see for example Minase Ruruu's thoughts on this.

I would treat this example as more of an outlier, plus the fact it was written in 2011 might be the reason why it was worded like that. Because "lez" was almost certainly a translation of "rezu" (and even if Minase Ruruu outright used the "lez" version herself, the two are literally different spellings of the same word - "rezubian" in full, "lesbian" - so there is next to no chance a Japanese author would use one without being aware of the other).

The reason this is problematic is because rezu is sometimes (rarely, I might add) used to refer to pornographic material, but it is also used as a derogatory term for real-life lesbians in Japan. This is why Japanese lesbians will sometimes resort to using the second half of the word ("bian") instead. Thus yuri authors have mostly avoided using the term.

Some Japanese yuri fans did indeed push for using "rezu/lez" as a term for porn material, with "yuri" being the "non sexual stuff" in a similar way to some of the western fans who coined the term "shoujo ai" (not realising it was an already existing term with paedophilic connotations in Japan). But because of the derogatory nature of "rezu/lez" in everyday language this never really took off, although you will find occasional examples of authors using it.

I should have specified that "does not exist in Japan" was referring to the accepted practices in the industry, so to speak. Because yeah, you will very definitely find some Japanese yuri fans who are obsessed with "purity" as much as the western shoujo ai-pushing crowd is, and they did indeed try to introduce different terms for explicit material, but this was simply never accepted by the industry or the community at large.

All of which is basically rendered moot anyway because even the Japanese fans who pushed for this used "yuri" for, as you pointed out, non-explicit works, lol. Further making it impossible that Agu meant "this will be a non-horny yuri manga" when she rejected the label for the series.

last edited at Jun 25, 2022 12:07PM

RadiosAreObsolete
Img_20210321_022239%20(2)
joined Mar 6, 2021

Honestly, I can kind of understand why an author might not want to label their work as yuri, even if it technically would fall into that category. Yuri as a genre often feels somehow detached from wlw in real life...? (I can't explain it very well, but I think there are probably other people here who get what I mean). So it could be a way to free your work from readers' expectations. That said, I don't speak Japanese, so I have no idea what Agu actually said here, this was more of a general comment on the matter.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Honestly, I can kind of understand why an author might not want to label their work as yuri, even if it technically would fall into that category. Yuri as a genre often feels somehow detached from wlw in real life...? (I can't explain it very well, but I think there are probably other people here who get what I mean). So it could be a way to free your work from readers' expectations. That said, I don't speak Japanese, so I have no idea what Agu actually said here, this was more of a general comment on the matter.

Could very well be. My personal opinion is that the author said that because she will likely go for the "ambiguous relationship" approach.

To illustrate what I mean by this, basically what happened with Nettaigyo. There the author was very clear from the start that she will not label it as yuri and that it is more about close bonds, friendship, and affection between girls (so basically the same line Agu used here). Hagino, the author of Nettaigyo, also stated that she does not mind if the readers interpret it as yuri.

The end result was a manga with the subtext so heavy you could slice it with a knife, but which nonetheless never ended with explicit romance. The amount of subtext and the fact the author was fine with people head-canoning it as yuri makes the romance a perfectly acceptable interpretation, but you will still not see it explicitly on-screen, so to speak.

last edited at Jun 25, 2022 12:26PM

Unknown-min
joined May 7, 2022

Honestly, I can kind of understand why an author might not want to label their work as yuri, even if it technically would fall into that category. Yuri as a genre often feels somehow detached from wlw in real life...? (I can't explain it very well, but I think there are probably other people here who get what I mean). So it could be a way to free your work from readers' expectations. That said, I don't speak Japanese, so I have no idea what Agu actually said here, this was more of a general comment on the matter.

Well, going by Google Translate, Agu DOES mention that they like working with the themes of women and women’s love, so it might be exactly the case that the author doesn’t see in the works called “yuri” a depiction of wlw that they’d like to make or be associated with.
Here is the translated version (GT):

I also think it’s just Agu hoping the audience will not have the same expectations for the series that they have with works labelled as “Yuri”, that they wanna explore the story and making it something more than just f/f. But going by the author’s work, they do portray intimacy between women that is clearly not heterosexual, that’s the central theme of what i’ve seen by them. I would argue their work is what we could call down-to-earth/realistic yuri. It shows women sexuality and feelings between women the way it is. I am ofc going by “The Real Momoka” and the series just posted here on DS, both being previous works. Can they be called Yuri? Yeah, ofc. But at the end of the day they are about women’s love. Yuri is a genre, love between women is a topic. When you have a genre, certain patterns are expected and it’s ok if the author doesn’t really want to follow these…

last edited at Jun 25, 2022 12:51PM

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

@wlftchtr82: The problem with using machine translations, though, is that they tend to be imprecise as hell when it comes to Japanese. In the Discord discussion the following translations were put forth by experienced translators in the scanlating community (one of whom is the scanlator working on this series):

"I wouldn't call this manga yuri (ie, romance between girls), but more affection between girls"

"I don't know if the manga I'm drawing now would be what people call [yuri]. It's more of a story of friendship between two girls."

The main point of discussion was not the yuri remark itself, but whether Agu meant it to refer to this whole story in general, or just to the parts already written (meaning that she might possibly add the yuri label in the future). To me personally it seemed more plausible that she was talking about the story as a whole, but the two translators who were discussing it differed in opinion on this particular point; one arguing that it was a general remark while the other presented the view that she was talking only about the content published so far.

last edited at Jun 25, 2022 1:12PM

Utena%20rose%20white%20200x200
joined Mar 28, 2014

bwhahahahaha, Mitsuki sure is evil - good new chapter
wonder how long she was sick - she must have been absent from both school and the workplace, which would be yet another hint for Aya

Unknown-min
joined May 7, 2022

bwhahahahaha, Mitsuki sure is evil - good new chapter
wonder how long she was sick - she must have been absent from both school and the workplace, which would be yet another hint for Aya

nah, probably Aya thought her crush changed shifts during the days “he” was absent from work

Utena%20rose%20white%20200x200
joined Mar 28, 2014

bwhahahahaha, Mitsuki sure is evil - good new chapter
wonder how long she was sick - she must have been absent from both school and the workplace, which would be yet another hint for Aya

nah, probably Aya thought her crush changed shifts during the days “he” was absent from work

yeah, looks like she was out for 3d only - the power of affection sure heals, lol

Tongtong.exe
joined Apr 27, 2021

@wlftchtr82: The problem with using machine translations, though, is that they tend to be imprecise as hell when it comes to Japanese. In the Discord discussion the following translations were put forth by experienced translators in the scanlating community (one of whom is the scanlator working on this series):

"I wouldn't call this manga yuri (ie, romance between girls), but more affection between girls"

"I don't know if the manga I'm drawing now would be what people call [yuri]. It's more of a story of friendship between two girls."

The main point of discussion was not the yuri remark itself, but whether Agu meant it to refer to this whole story in general, or just to the parts already written (meaning that she might possibly add the yuri label in the future). To me personally it seemed more plausible that she was talking about the story as a whole, but the two translators who were discussing it differed in opinion on this particular point; one arguing that it was a general remark while the other presented the view that she was talking only about the content published so far.

It is quite ambiguous, I would disagree with the translation as "friendship between girls" because the Japanese word used (愛情) is inherently ambiguous and is usually translated as affection, which can be platonic, but which can definitely also be romantic.
Regarding the reference, I would be even broader and say she's talking about her drawing in general, as she starts the entire point talking about the "manga I'm drawing" which could be specific to this manga, but she specifically did not say this manga, so I read it as a general statement

Kirin-kun Uploader
Oip
Rehashed Scans
joined Mar 21, 2021

Regarding the reference, I would be even broader and say she's talking about her drawing in general, as she starts the entire point talking about the "manga I'm drawing" which could be specific to this manga, but she specifically did not say this manga, so I read it as a general statement

She used a "teiru' grammatical form, which is about something ongoing.

I was the one side in that argument stating that she said, in her interview, that she didn't consider the story she's currently writing as yuri (ie, romance between girls), but as "female close relationship" or something. Ie, Gal Pals. Or subtext.

Afk was arguing that she implied "so far", I was arguing that she's talking about the whole story in general.

The truth remains to be seen.

Unknown-min
joined May 7, 2022

bwhahahahaha, Mitsuki sure is evil - good new chapter
wonder how long she was sick - she must have been absent from both school and the workplace, which would be yet another hint for Aya

nah, probably Aya thought her crush changed shifts during the days “he” was absent from work

yeah, looks like she was out for 3d only - the power of affection sure heals, lol

it was the playlist that she got from aya, with a cool selection of songs. miraculously healed her. amen.

Sena
joined Jun 27, 2017

The way I see it the moment authors make a point about talking about these things "philosophically" it's basically a given it'll be a relationship dud that just drags to some ambiguous end that's not once so far been any sort of satisfying.

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