I'm not sure why y'all are arguing about the artists intent in the interview. I went back through the whole manga, and it is really hard to read this story as anything other than a romance. You have to ignore a whole lot of awkward looks and blushing to see this as a close friendship.

Exactly the same reason why people dismissed the scanlator of Nettaigyo when he posted about Hagino saying she does not consider it yuri. "Lololol what are you on about, do you see the amount of blushing and handholding and etc., of course it is romance, it can not be anything else lolololol." Cue Nettaigyo ending. Cue people in the comments complaining how they were baited. I think it is reasonable to temper expectations here. Given that statement from Agu I personally doubt we will see anything more than subtext at best. I would not mind being proven wrong, though.

Oh dang I didn't know that got removed, it was fun. Any idea if the creator is going to work with a publisher or something to have it released in a way where we can support them? I intend to respect the author's wishes, it can just be a little frustrating in my opinion when an author wants support but refuses to find a way to release their work in other languages, especially when the demand is there. Which is something I've seen.

Regrettably, the series in question seems to fall into the category you described at the end here. The author was angry about the scanlation and demanded it be pulled down ("I want you to stop reading for free" was the phrasing they used, though they later deleted that tweet), but we have no indications that an English release of any kind is in the making.

based music taste tho

I'm not sure why y'all are arguing about the artists intent in the interview. I went back through the whole manga, and it is really hard to read this story as anything other than a romance. You have to ignore a whole lot of awkward looks and blushing to see this as a close friendship.

Exactly the same reason why people dismissed the scanlator of Nettaigyo when he posted about Hagino saying she does not consider it yuri. "Lololol what are you on about, do you see the amount of blushing and handholding and etc., of course it is romance, it can not be anything else lolololol." Cue Nettaigyo ending. Cue people in the comments complaining how they were baited. I think it is reasonable to temper expectations here. Given that statement from Agu I personally doubt we will see anything more than subtext at best. I would not mind being proven wrong, though.

Oh dang I didn't know that got removed, it was fun. Any idea if the creator is going to work with a publisher or something to have it released in a way where we can support them? I intend to respect the author's wishes, it can just be a little frustrating in my opinion when an author wants support but refuses to find a way to release their work in other languages, especially when the demand is there. Which is something I've seen.

Regrettably, the series in question seems to fall into the category you described at the end here. The author was angry about the scanlation and demanded it be pulled down ("I want you to stop reading for free" was the phrasing they used, though they later deleted that tweet), but we have no indications that an English release of any kind is in the making.

Nettaigyo was pushing the boundaries of subtext, to an obnoxious degree. This, on the other hand, is built around the premise that Aya has fallen in love with Mitsuki, as the boy that she thinks Mitsuki is. Aya is described as not having much interest in boys, which would indicate to me (and probably to most others) that Aya is gay. If this really isn't the case, then it may well be the worst example of subtext I've ever seen, and Agu is out of their mind writing a story with this premise, and thinking that people aren't going to expect it to end with a romance.

isn't there a movement to kinda divorce "women's love" works from yuri? I agree here that from this section it sounds like the author doesn't want to be bound to the genre conventions of "yuri" and just write a queer story.

Yeah, there's a big difference between Nettaigyo's "it's not yuri it's friendship" and saying "it's not yuri it's women's love."

Yuri is a pretty amorphous term, but as a genre in Japan it's generally gonna be referring to the sweet, fluffy, non-explicit schoolgirls crushing on schoolgirls style of stories. The kinda stories that might own up to it being love, but aren't ever gonna admit that hey, these two girls are gay and might date other girls in the future. Which is why Yuri is frequently not viewed as that socially disruptive for what seems to outsiders like obviously queer romance - the Japanese mainstream can interpret it as a safe exploration of female romantic feelings as practice for eventually entering adulthood and heterosexuality. A big reason why yuri titles so rarely have male characters at all - because if there were actually eligible boyfriends out there in the story universe than it would be way too queer for girls to be crushing on girls anyway.

So terms like women's love are used mostly by queer female writers who want to write stories that are explicitly queer without that layer of "j/k it's just close friendship bro" that yuri so often has. Saying it's not yuri in that context isn't a nettaigyo situation, it's basically the exact opposite, "it's not about close friendship it's about lesbians."

isn't there a movement to kinda divorce "women's love" works from yuri? I agree here that from this section it sounds like the author doesn't want to be bound to the genre conventions of "yuri" and just write a queer story.

Yeah, there's a big difference between Nettaigyo's "it's not yuri it's friendship" and saying "it's not yuri it's women's love."

Yuri is a pretty amorphous term, but as a genre in Japan it's generally gonna be referring to the sweet, fluffy, non-explicit schoolgirls crushing on schoolgirls style of stories. The kinda stories that might own up to it being love, but aren't ever gonna admit that hey, these two girls are gay and might date other girls in the future. Which is why Yuri is frequently not viewed as that socially disruptive for what seems to outsiders like obviously queer romance - the Japanese mainstream can interpret it as a safe exploration of female romantic feelings as practice for eventually entering adulthood and heterosexuality. A big reason why yuri titles so rarely have male characters at all - because if there were actually eligible boyfriends out there in the story universe than it would be way too queer for girls to be crushing on girls anyway.

So terms like women's love are used mostly by queer female writers who want to write stories that are explicitly queer without that layer of "j/k it's just close friendship bro" that yuri so often has. Saying it's not yuri in that context isn't a nettaigyo situation, it's basically the exact opposite, "it's not about close friendship it's about lesbians."

I can't agree with a lot of this. I've seen Yuri used for everything under the sun involving love between two women. Explicit content, SFW content. Ambiguous and Subtle relationships, confirmed relationships. Fluffy ones, sexual ones.

This also makes no sense to me when some people in the West have tried to argue for years that "Yuri is sexual content", and "Shoujo Ai is Fluffy". People have pushed against this saying Yuri in Japan embraces sexual, fluffy, and everything else. Yuri is a Japanese term and the definition is created by Japanese people, Westerners should not be able to define it for them.

Yuri manga and media for 10+ years has embraced being gay into adulthood, and relationships that start in younger years continuing into their adult lives. For awhile now many Yuri manga have time skip sections at the end where they're shown in their adult years, still together. Also, Office Lady Yuri has been a very popular subgenre for awhile now, along with Yuri manga and one-shots revolving around subjects like prostitution, along with other Yuri media focusing on adult lesbians.

There are currently successful openly gay Japanese mangaka who have no issue with using the term Yuri, and I saw one just the other day saying she makes her Yuri media for gay women. The term Yuri is valid, and it's valid for creators like her to call herself a creator of Yuri. I try to take artists at their word, and not what I think their word is.

Also this whole discussion and forum thread boils down to ultimately, Semantics. It's all different kinds of terms/words like "Women's Love" and "Yuri" that all have broad vague meanings that umbrella a lot, and all ultimately mean the same thing at the end of the day. People just have varying opinions on what these words mean and which is better. It's more or less an argument of Potato Chip vs Potato Crisp basically.

I can't agree with a lot of this.

I will go a step further, I do not agree with pretty much anything SadDoctor wrote, as it is just pointedly wrong.

This also makes no sense to me when some people in the West have tried to argue for years that "Yuri is sexual content", and "Shoujo Ai is Fluffy". People have pushed against this saying Yuri in Japan embraces sexual, fluffy, and everything else. Yuri is a Japanese term and the definition is created by Japanese people, Westerners should not be able to define it for them.

The "shoujo ai" stuff is definitely nonsense, but in fairness you will find Japanese fans who are the exact equivalent of the western "shoujo ai" crowd and these Japanese fans do treat the term "yuri" the way SadDoctor suggested (using "rezu" for sexually explicit material). The thing is, they encountered the same kind of pushback as the westerners peddling "shoujo ai" have and you will find very, very few authors who ascribe to their ideas.

So terms like women's love are used mostly by queer female writers who want to write stories that are explicitly queer without that layer of "j/k it's just close friendship bro" that yuri so often has. Saying it's not yuri in that context isn't a nettaigyo situation, it's basically the exact opposite, "it's not about close friendship it's about lesbians."

Except the only instance of Agu using "women's love" comes from a machine translation. For a nuanced and prone-to-vagueness language as the Japanese, machine translations can at best be treated as rough pointers. The actual translators who know the language, including the current scanlator working on this series, translated the "women's love" part as either "affection between girls" or "friendship between two girls".

But at this point we are all just going in circles, it really might be best to drop it for now. Time will tell, though I do agree with one of the previous posters who said they get sceptical the moment authors get all "philosophical" on this topic, as there is almost never any actual need for any of this to be "philosophical" and more often than not these "philosophical" excursions end with ambiguous results.

last edited at Jun 28, 2022 6:29AM

To make things short, Aya has a something like a crush on what she thinks is a guy, because she finds him cool and they have similar tastes in music.

What little romance in that story you can dig out is that "crush". Though it's more like she's a fan rather than crushing on "onii-san", she calls "him" her oshi.

Words have meaning. If the author used oshi, it's for a reason.

Fangirling on an oshi doesn't mean you want to date them.

Other than that, there's NO romance in there and people who think they'll start dating after the cat is out of the bag are probably going to be disappointed.

I'll bet on an open ending with them getting closer and what happens next will be up to the readers imagination.

last edited at Jun 28, 2022 10:09AM

Painting her feelings as something like that of a fan and her idol isn't right either. The author uses the word 恋心. It's pretty unambiguously romantic, and her actions clearly indicate she's interested in dating, not just admiring from a distance. It's not the fever induced delusion of the readers when the uncle is written to even read it this way.

The question is whether it will stay that way once she finds out the truth, or if we'll go the "My feelings of like are different because we are girls" route. I'll echo the sentiment earlier that usually when authors start waxing poetic about the definition of yuri or if their work is something more complicated than that, it's usually not a good sign. But given that the author seems to actually draw gay stuff and isn't Ryukishi trying to make Higurashi Gou seem super deep, I'll reserve my thoughts until the end.

last edited at Jun 28, 2022 11:11AM

Everyone here’s arguing whether this is yuri or not and i’m just here hoping for the playlists’ links. (._.)

Everyone here’s arguing whether this is yuri or not and i’m just here hoping for the playlists’ links. (._.)

someone actually asked on twitter, but I don't think they'll get it :(
Sumiko seems too busy to come up with full playlists, even tho that'd be cool character building

last edited at Jun 28, 2022 1:35PM

Painting her feelings as something like that of a fan and her idol isn't right either. The author uses the word 恋心. It's pretty unambiguously romantic, and her actions clearly indicate she's interested in dating, not just admiring from a distance. It's not the fever induced delusion of the readers when the uncle is written to even read it this way.

The question is whether it will stay that way once she finds out the truth, or if we'll go the "My feelings of like are different because we are girls" route. I'll echo the sentiment earlier that usually when authors start waxing poetic about the definition of yuri or if their work is something more complicated than that, it's usually not a good sign. But given that the author seems to actually draw gay stuff and isn't Ryukishi trying to make Higurashi Gou seem super deep, I'll reserve my thoughts until the end.

Yeah p much. Wether or not it ends up as a romance story the biggest disappointement would be some stupid cop out of not explicitly saying they're gay. If it ends up as friendship and looks like it after Aya figures out mitsuki isn't a guy sure, if it ends up as romance sure, but some weird bullshit would suck ass.

Someone could just make the playlists eventually, probably enough bands mentioned to make one.

Someone could just make the playlists eventually, probably enough bands mentioned to make one.

turns out someone did: https://twitter.com/xinkuleni_/status/1540989444534435841
although it's just the songs shown in the chapter and the dream widow album

last edited at Jun 28, 2022 5:30PM

To be honest, ever since the bio chapter was dropped on us in the middle of the story, I've started getting a feeling that the author actually doesn't know herself what to do with it. And without an editor, one of the ways to fish for some development clues and ideas is to drop some drama in the social media/fan communities.
On the other hand, it seems to me that since the bio chapter, she's been drawing Aya collecting hints that Oniisan = Mitsuki. And in addition, awakening to her gay/bi sexuality.
Quite frankly, I don't see the right chemistry for love between Aya and Mitsuki. But it's good enough for each to crush on one another and understand they are both gay/bi/whatever. I could even see them to start dating, kissing and all the blah the teens do at the age, only for them to part ways later on.

nirvana > foo fighters imho

Melvins > Tad > green river > nirvana :p

last edited at Jun 28, 2022 10:18PM

Hey! let's make a little guess game, which band you think we'll get featured next? this time we had Gorillaz which isn't rock or metal but it's sooo good!

My candidates are
System of a Down
Tool
Soundgarden
Red Hot chili pepers

Less likely:
Depeche mode
Korn
Deftones

last edited at Jun 29, 2022 12:18AM

Hey! let's make a little guess game, which band you think we'll get featured next? this time we had Gorillaz which isn't rock or metal but it's sooo good!

My candidates are
System of a Down
Tool
Soundgarden
Red Hot chili pepers

Less likely:
Depeche mode
Korn
Deftones

Hoping for:
Dandy Warhols
Black Rebel Motorcycle Club
The Brian Jonestown Massacre
The Jesus and Mary Chain
Sonic Youth
Hole (because all the things Courtney Love and her association with Kurt Cobain)
Pixies
White Stripes
Oasis
Placebo
Smashing Pumpkins
The Smiths
Bikini Kill (fingers crossed!)
Sneaker Pimps (not really rock but definitely alternative low-fi goodness)
Air (once again alternative low-fi goodness)

Less likely:
Nine Inch Nails (too heavy/dark!)
A Perfect Circle
Deftones
Queens of the Stone Age
Metric
The Breeders
Travis
Broken Social Scene
Jimmy Eat World
Dashboard Confessional

Edit: I think I'm done here.

last edited at Jun 29, 2022 1:17AM

Hey! let's make a little guess game, which band you think we'll get featured next? this time we had Gorillaz which isn't rock or metal but it's sooo good!

My candidates are
System of a Down
Tool
Soundgarden
Red Hot chili pepers

Less likely
Depeche mode
Korn

Fun thread to join! A break from the story genre discussion.

Bands shown/mentioned so far:
UPDATED VERSION: Chapter 12

• Nirvana (Most referenced band. Ch.1: "Nirvana is just the best", Smells Like Teen Spirit, Nirvana poster in Aya's room on Ch.7; Also Mitsuki's school persona even had Nirvana stickers in her pencil case in the concept art, probably taken out because it would be a dead giveaway to Aya)
  
• Foo Fighters (their Dream Widow project, Ch.3-4; Also, there is a poster from a 1995 gig at The Fillmore in San Francisco in Mitsuki's room in Ch.8, bottom right. Hard to spot but someone did.)
• Pink Floyd (the CD Mitsuki is holding at Ch.5, also Aya’s room has the Dark Side of the Moon poster on Ch.7)
• Rolling Stones (Ch.7, Aya's room — kinda hard to spot but it's on page 2, it's a big poster on the top right of the last panel; Ch.8, Mitsuki’s room)
• AC/DC (Ch.8, Mitsuki’s room) highway to groan
• Radiohead (Mitsuki’s shirt Ch.10)
• The Velvet Underground (hoodie Mitsuki offers to Aya on Ch.10; here is the hoodie print)
• Gorillaz (Mitsuki’s tank top on Ch.11)
• Arctic Monkeys (Mitsuki’s room, Ch.11, 1st panel: it’s a gig poster, but not exactly like the poster you find online. Sumiko probably made some changes so the AM initials would be seen)
• Blur (Aya’s playlist Ch.11)
• Black Sabbath (Aya’s playlist Ch.11)
• The Strokes (Aya’s playlist Ch.11)
• Pearl Jam (Aya's playlist Ch.12)
• Bon Jovi (Aya's playlist Ch.12)
• Beck (Aya's playlist Ch.12)
• Royal Blood (Figure It Out on Aya's playlist Ch.12)

Honorable Mention: Indie Rock band Charly Bliss' "Heaven" is in one of the concept arts

Alternative Rock, Grunge and Post-Grunge seem to be the most prominent subgenres, with some honourable mentions of the Classics.

Most Likely (based on genre and my personal preferences):
Muse
The Smashing Pumpkins
Pearl Jam
Oasis
Placebo

Could happen (50/50):
The Beatles
Led Zeppelin
Queen
Sonic Youth
Red Hot Chilli Peppers

Less Likely:
Paramore
The Cure
Tame Impala
Fall Out Boy
Green Day

last edited at Jul 6, 2022 10:36PM

I dunno, old Green Day was pretty big in the alt scene when i grew up.

Garbage has some relevant songs, so they showing up would perhaps make some narrative sense ...
Could see Linkin Park or Bloodhound Gang as two of the big bands of the time. And wouldn't be surprised about some more random classics, dunno, can basically be anything. Alice Cooper? Aerosmith?

dunno about stuff like A Perfect Circle, Audioslave, or something stupid like blink-182. Jet? Lostprophets? Kaiser Chiefs? Dunno.
What I want to see is something I wouldn't expect. L7? Distillers?

last edited at Jun 29, 2022 5:37AM

I think L7 could fit in there, definitely a good representative of the riotgrrl scene.

Personally I'd like to see some of the subjectively better grunge/alt bands represented, Alice in Chains and Soundgarden for example.

last edited at Jun 29, 2022 4:36AM

Maybe some Melvins too.

I dunno, old Green Day was pretty big in the alt scene when i grew up.

so far there wasn’t anything remotely punk to make me believe the chances are high, but exactly because it was big in the alt scene i decided to add it there. Least likely, but not zero chance.

Could see Linkin Park or Bloodhound Gang as two of the big bands of the time.

Bloodhound Gang being, well, Bloodhound Gang, they seem a rather unlikely candidate, but it would certainly be fun to see them here. :D

last edited at Jun 29, 2022 7:14AM

I dunno, old Green Day was pretty big in the alt scene when i grew up.

so far there wasn’t anything remotely punk to make me believe the chances are high, but exactly because it was big in the alt scene i decided to add it there. Least likely, but not zero chance.

A bit of a stretch to call Green Day punk haha. They were ultimately a rock band heavily influenced by punk, just like Nirvana pre Teen Spirit. Bleach leaned heavily into punk.

last edited at Jun 29, 2022 8:00AM