Reading this just fucking breaks my heart

People claiming "this is so cliche" should at least come up with 3 similar mangas XP I bet they only saw one.

That said... this is too much pain for me to handle without the whole thing completed, I'm sorry.

I'm interested in the other work of the same mangaka for now I'll vanish into fluffy zone

WHY DO BTCHES ALWAYS GOTTA GET MARRIED?!?!! So tired of this trope damn it.

Because it's the "normal" thing to do. It's an easy way of starting the drama.

I tend to avoid the "cliche" arguement mainly because of my... I wouldn't say lack, just... deficit of experience with manga. After all, I've been exposed to those for barely 2 years.
Ironically, tho, in the extremely rare instances where I do find myself using the cliche argument, I use it against certain mapping series, something I was exposed to for over half a decade.

last edited at Dec 17, 2019 12:18PM

at least come up with 3 similar mangas XP I bet they only saw one.

Heh, why not 10? ラスト•フレンズ - here the whole j-dorama about similar thing and more, maybe you’ll be interested, lol. And there are some one-shots about same thing on basis level. And it is a quite common trope for secondary cast. Sorry, I read too much manga for so many years, so I don't remember names at all - not a big fan of these things.

laugh in Gunjou

Man, I hate hoe ass bitches like Midori in yuri. Stupid ass sluts getting knocked up and becoming single mothers, and now our MC has to take the remains/sloppy seconds. I'm not even gay, but putting myself in a gay person's shoes in this situation makes me think of such a person like Midori as fuuuuucking disgusting. Just ghost her lmao XD

Man, I hate hoe ass bitches like Midori in yuri. Stupid ass sluts getting knocked up and becoming single mothers, and now our MC has to take the remains/sloppy seconds. I'm not even gay, but putting myself in a gay person's shoes in this situation makes me think of such a person like Midori as fuuuuucking disgusting. Just ghost her lmao XD

Nice try, but if you want to set the world record for the most derogatory insults for women in a single post you’re going to have work even harder.

For people saying everything is cliche in some way and that certain things are part of human nature, hence unavoidable, you should remember what the definition of cliche is:

"an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has become overused to the point of losing its original
meaning or effect, even to the point of being trite or irritating, especially when at some earlier time it was
considered meaningful or novel"

Sure. Cliche or tropes are not bad in and of itself, it's all about execution, yada, yada, yada. The point is variety. If everyone always include the same things, because "it's realistic" or "it happens in real life" then fiction becomes oversaturated with it and it becomes boring. It's fine reading few times, but if almost every work uses it, it starts to becoming annoying. The point is, it's fiction, not real life. Good works give you illusion of realism, while still being good stories. Ignoring the escapism and wish fulfillment part of reading fiction (aka people got enough of that irl), those kind of stories are done to death at this point, while so many other possibilities are not even touched. It's the same thing as with love triangles. It's not that stuff like that doesn't happen, but rather because it does, it's one of the most obvious ones people could write about and use in their stories, at this point it just comes off as lazy, because tt feels like there's zero creativity behind it.

last edited at Dec 17, 2019 2:04PM

Here's the reason why I'm not a fan of the "cliche argument". Nothing is truly original, everything is inspired by something, everything has tropes and cliches, parts of other stories and ideas. As one fantastic work I saw said, the nice thing about stories is that they're all connected, this author read something and was inspired to make their own story or spin on that type of story, the author that inspired them was inspired by the stories of another author themselves, and those stories were inspired by yet another author's tales, and so on. We're all connected just like our stories, especially on a scale where we can now share stories on a global level these days.

Plus I always go back to this point, since Shakespeare became popular pretty much every story has elements of his works in some fashion, some kind of inspiration or thread linking back to his writing, and Shakespeare himself wasn't entirely original.

Yes I've been the audience for stories similar to this before. I've enjoyed so many different stories over the years that have been told in many different ways. I'm here to see how this plays out, and how the author handles this type of story. I'm not saying it will be good, or even bad. I'm here for the ride, and I'm enjoying the art style at the very least.

Plus ultimately a wide range of stories helps with contrast, and seeing how different authors approach various subjects can help you define your own preferences, how you would prefer a story to unfold. This again is entirely my own perspective and take on stories.

last edited at Dec 17, 2019 2:10PM

For people saying everything is cliche in some way and that certain things are part of human nature, hence unavoidable, you should remember what the definition of cliche is:

"an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has become overused to the point of losing its original
meaning or effect, even to the point of being trite or irritating, especially when at some earlier time it was
considered meaningful or novel"

Sure. Cliche or tropes are not bad in and of itself, it's all about execution, yada, yada, yada. The point is variety. If everyone always include the same things, because "it's realistic" or "it happens in real life" then fiction becomes oversaturated with it and it becomes boring. It's fine reading few times, but if almost every work uses it, it starts to becoming annoying. The point is, it's fiction, not real life. Good works give you illusion of realism, while still being good stories. Ignoring the escapism and wish fulfillment part of reading fiction (aka people got enough of that irl), those kind of stories are done to death at this point, while so many other possibilities are not even touched. It's the same thing as with love triangles. It's not that stuff like that doesn't happen, but rather because it does, it's one of the most obvious ones people could write about and use in their stories, at this point it just comes off as lazy, because tt feels like there's zero creativity behind it.

What becomes trite and irritating is a matter of perspective. Not every story is going to be for you. Telling someone what they should write about is entirely self centered. If someone wants to write about love triangles, then so be it. You have a choice of consuming the work or not. You can avoid it. Other people can enjoy this manga and you don't have to.

There are tropes and cliches in the stories that you enjoy. Unless you enjoy literally nothing, then I only feel sorry for you and I hope you find some form of happiness.

FluffyCow posted:

Telling someone what they should write about is entirely self centered.

I'm not telling anyone what to write. I was simply explaining why certain cliches or story ideas annoy people more. As I said, it's usually not a big issue until you start consuming a lot of media and certain scenarios show up much more often than other. If it was depending on me, of course I'd tell every artist to write stuff to cater to my taste and satisfy my interests, but that's obviously unrealistic.

FluffyCow posted:

Telling someone what they should write about is entirely self centered.

I'm not telling anyone what to write. I was simply explaining why certain cliches or story ideas annoy people more. As I said, it's usually not a big issue until you start consuming a lot of media and certain scenarios show up much more often than other. If it was depending on me, of course I'd tell every artist to write stuff to cater to my taste and satisfy my interests, but that's obviously unrealistic.

Fair enough. As I said in another post I do consume a lot of media, but I'm of the mind that I don't understand entirely why it annoys people. Yes common trends and ideas are often retold many times by different authors, but authors in general just write what they like and want to write about. It's our choice to continue consuming the story or not, getting annoyed by it just seems like a waste of time to me.

Is no one going to talk about how great the mangaka put the perspective of the MC? I keep on reading these comments of just cliche arguments, etc. How about we talk about how the artist shows the views and certain things we can relate to. Well some things. The way the MC truly loved that girl even though she’s married she’s very aware that she can’t exactly do anything about it. Like some of us or maybe most idk, we in some situations have to face things but don’t do anything about it when we should have. Another thing is the way this is realistic. Instead of it being a little bit too dramatic they have conversations that aren’t over the top or just everything is sad life sucks.

I just love the fact that whenever her ex or crush acts in the panels we don’t know what she’s thinking. It’s hard to understand her just like the MC is having a hard time understanding her too. We can understand her position.

It feels realistic to me and that’s just what I think makes this manga good. Though I do understand what people have argued about this, using a husband who isn’t so quite nice to his wife and another girl taking her away. But this is just a little bit different if not maybe a lot. The most cliche or used plot would be an abusive husband, in this manga it shows the husband being egotistical. Another way of a toxic relationship, not exactly physically abusive but mentally. The wife being talked down because she didn’t attend a university or college, it’s not dangerously toxic at the moment but the relationship between the husband and the wife is definitely not good. From what i’ve read in yuri, it’s always the husband being drunk or just flat out physically abusive towards the wife. This isn’t the case.

That’s what I get from this and yeah. Open to criticism.

Is no one going to talk about how great the mangaka put the perspective of the MC?

I agree—Maki’s POV is the part (besides the fairly fluid art style) that seems compelling to me so far.

Midori is pretty unsympathetic in herself, but Maki’s affection for her is very believable. I don’t care about this one as a ship, but for Maki as a character.

(What can I say—I’m a sucker for the shy ones with glasses.)

Blah blah cliché, blah blah too angsty, blah blah not PC, blah blah hetero marriage, blah blah pregnancy, blah blah MC a bad role model, blah blah other MC a bitch, blah blah blah blah blah.

So we're not authorized to criticize ? "Even thought we're adults" have prove that the husband doesn't necesserly had not be a dick, neither we need one of the MC to be pregnant. I personally think that making the husband an asshole is a cheap way tomake the yuri easier.

last edited at Dec 17, 2019 3:21PM

"Even thought we're adults" have prove that the husband doesn't necesserly had not be a dick, neither we need one of the MC to be pregnant. I personally think that making the husband an asshole is a cheap way to make the yuri easier.

But tropes may look the same only to have very different effects in different contexts--this story doesn't need any help to "make the yuri easier"; the MCs have already "kissed, and [done] everything else girls in love do." (Whatever that may mean exactly--it doesn't seem like they've actually had sex, but it isn't ruled out either).

But what the asshole husband does do is shine a light on Midori's character--she goes along doing what's expected of her, without really noticing that the belittling, self-aggrandizing, cums-where-he-feels-like-it husband isn't just par for the hetero course (which he kind of is anyway).

Same with the pregnancy--it's where the "playing at being married in your new apartment" shit gets real, the kind of thing that a basically thoughtless, non-introspective person like Midori needs to (potentially) make a change in her life.

My objection to the knee-jerk "it's a cliché!" posts isn't that tropes can't be overused or used badly, but a lot of readers seem to just note the presence of some familiar trope or two, then characterize the story as "boring" or lazily written or otherwise inadequate just because the trope exists, regardless of how it's deployed.

Maybe in the end this series will actually turn out to be just a rehash of elements we've seen a bunch of times before. But the mere presence of tropes doesn't guarantee that it will.

last edited at Dec 17, 2019 5:12PM

Damn, I thought this was the one where the two girls ran away together from one of theirs wedding in the first chapter. Was confused and saddened by the end of chapter 2

im ready for the useless angst

Just dropping by to say that...

...whoever wrote this has never gone to grad school.

Just dropping by to say that...

...whoever wrote this has never gone to grad school.

Depends on your classes though and how you see "free" time. If free time is when I don't have classes then yeh sure I have a bunch of it. Include studying time however and what does having a social life even mean? Though tbh if I had this big of a crush on someone I'd probably be 'free' 24/7 for them.

last edited at Dec 17, 2019 7:30PM

Just dropping by to say that...

...whoever wrote this has never gone to grad school.

Depends on your classes though and how you see "free" time. If free time is when I don't have classes then yeh sure I have a bunch of it. Include studying time however and what does having a social life even mean? Though tbh if I had this big of a crush on someone I'd probably be 'free' 24/7 for them.

Yeah, times when you absolutely have to be in a certain place for a specified period of time: not so much.

Time when there isn’t something else you really should be doing: almost none.

Yeah, times when you absolutely have to be in a certain place for a specified period of time: not so much.

Time when there isn’t something else you really should be doing: almost none.

Lol you remind me of a video I watched one time on Youtube (don't have the link anymore, too bad) where a very pretty sexy girl in skimpy clothes used a small hand-held device called a "detector of people who are watching Youtube videos when they should actually BE STUDYING" and searched all around her room. She got readings like 20%, 30%, 70%, slowly getting closer to her target, until at the end she pointed the device towards the camera (that is, you) and the device finally flashed a red 100%... showing the target had been found. XD

I sense a “bad end” coming.