I also wonder if some of what Yunduo feels toward Xiaoen is colored by...not jealousy, but envy maybe? Appreciation for how Xiaoen is so unselfconscious about bucking those aforementioned pressures of what women "should" be like, and how Yunduo herself has never had the courage to do the same.

It has to do a lot with early loss of her mother.
It's interesting that Yunduo and Xingyuan suffered early loss of their mothers, and both of them are showing same emotional insecurity, expressed very similarly but yet so differently.
Observe their reactions toward father figure (and keep in mind their age difference)
It's very similar, being under the pressure of expectations of father/society, etc. And possibly their upbringing is very similar.

While Xiaoen was spared from such hard blows in life.
And it's good.
She is a pillar for Yunduo and Xingyuan, a great contrast for their darkness caused by loss of mothers.

last edited at Nov 20, 2023 3:29PM

I still do not buy Yunduo x Xiaoen theory. Everything still makes sense if she's just an old friend (and as people said, maybe deep down envious about how Xiaoen seems very happy despite not playing by the rules), and you don't have to perform any divination by reading the flames in the campfire.

But I have been wrong about this kind of thing before :P

last edited at Nov 20, 2023 7:02PM

The way she got on top of her to check her temperature, that shit was instinctual. Girl has subconscious game.

Only to be blocked by . . . bad breath!

I hope Yunduo is straight. When first introduced she looked like the most cliche lesbian in a powersuit, so I was surprised by her having kids. It would be nice if she dresses like that for herself and not to fit in with a group.

Of course closeted people can have kids but if she's closeted that would make her the lesbian equivalent of a closeted gay guy walking around in assless chaps.

That said, if they introduced a new girl who falls for her powersuit wiles that would be cool too. Being a yuri reader is complicated...

I hope Yunduo is straight. When first introduced she looked like the most cliche lesbian in a powersuit, so I was surprised by her having kids. It would be nice if she dresses like that for herself and not to fit in with a group.

I feel like that's an unfair way to put it. Why would her being a lesbian mean that she dresses to fit in and not because she wants to dress this way? Plus, it's obvious that if she is indeed queer, she's closeted, so why would you she dress to "look like the most cliché lesbian" intentionally?

Yundao dresses "that way" for her work, not as some sexual signifier one way or another. Building a take based on her white collar work uniform and her short haircut as if that makes her a walking stereotype, as if there's nothing else to her character, feels ridiculous.
In general, the idea that suits and lesbians are connected is a pretty silly idea. Whether or not someone wears a suit is almost entire defined by their job. I've never once gone to a lesbian meetup and seen someone just casually standing there dressed like a bank manager as a fashion statement lol. The only times I've ever seen that association are on dumb 90s era tv shows, nothing actually reflecting reality. Instead, plenty of women, gay and straight, wear suits every day just because they have a job that, like Yundao's job, expects them to.

last edited at Nov 23, 2023 12:33AM

I hope Yunduo is straight. When first introduced she looked like the most cliche lesbian in a powersuit, so I was surprised by her having kids. It would be nice if she dresses like that for herself and not to fit in with a group.

I feel like that's an unfair way to put it. Why would her being a lesbian mean that she dresses to fit in and not because she wants to dress this way? Plus, it's obvious that if she is indeed queer, she's closeted, so why would you she dress to "look like the most cliché lesbian" intentionally?

She's not choosing to dress that way, the author's dressing her that way.
My reasoning was based of the notion that stories tend to rely on tropes and cliches (of which this is definitely a 90's one lol). As far as I'm aware such short hair isn't common in China, even among the roaming gangs of grandmas. They tend to have a couple more inches.

It could be possible that the author just thinks it's cool or there's a deeper character reason. I just think the reason being "she gay" would be boring.

I tend to skip the reasoning and go straight to conclusions when speaking. I'm still skipping a bunch of reasoning for why I feel this way because I'm lazy. Turning feelings into factual statements is difficult.

well I'll be, she really did like her

Well this was an interesting chapter

Daaymmmm slow clap for those people who thought yundou likes Xiaoen! Now we can confirm that she really did liked her, I bet even now.

I still do not buy Yunduo x Xiaoen theory (...)

But I have been wrong about this kind of thing before :P

fuck

Yunduo's feelings are complex and her question to Xioaen can't be separated from her current dissatisfaction with her life. She loves her children but clearly regrets where she's ended up somewhat. Did she actually know about her feelings for Xiaoen back then or is she searching for a lifeline that wasn't there? She's definitely latched onto her current feelings for Xiaoen as a "what if," though. It's unfortunate.

What's great is you could see the gears turning in her head just from her body language in the previous chapter. The questions she was likely asking herself and the future she was imagining. I think even now, if she could, she'd want Xiaoen to be with her and with her kids.

Obviously that's not in the cards, and realizing that someone else is the one who showed Xiaoen that there's another romantic path--that must have cemented things for her a bit. She thought she'd missed something or that Xiaoen had kept something from her and that, that could explain how her life has ended up this way but in reality there really wasn't an alternative future that she was left out of. That also must hurt to think about.

She's been asking herself "where did it go wrong, and what could have changed it?" She seems to have thought she had an answer and that turned into a dud, quickly.

last edited at Nov 27, 2023 8:17AM

RIP

The childhood friend falling for "straight" friend only to find out later the "straight" friend does, in fact, fancy women, just not them trope.

Honestly didn't expect Yundao to be more than the protective childhood friend with a responsibility complex.

Obligatory comment on how beautiful the art is and how excited I am for every update. Love this work. Thanks to author and everybody who has worked to let us read it!

God. I love this. I love coming here and seeing all of us love and speculate and analyze. My Dear Lass is the gift that keeps giving

last edited at Nov 27, 2023 7:47AM

OK, this is purely me playing devil’s advocate (I was an early adopter of the “Yundou is into Xiaoen” theory, and still hold to it), but was there anything more explicit in this chapter to support that premise than we’ve seen before?

There certainly was more of the same—statements with implied subtext, significant expressions, meaningful framing and cuts from panel to panel, etc. Is it the quantity of suggestions/focus on Yundou’s feelings that sealed the deal for previous doubters?

OK, this is purely me playing devil’s advocate (I was an early adopter of the “Yundou is into Xiaoen” theory, and still hold to it), but was there anything more explicit in this chapter to support that premise than we’ve seen before?

There certainly was more of the same—statements with implied subtext, significant expressions, meaningful framing and cuts from panel to panel, etc. Is it the quantity of suggestions/focus on Yundou’s feelings that sealed the deal for previous doubters?

For me it wasn't quantity, but the fact that the question Yunduo asked was so specific, and that she is visibly disappointed in the answer :P Hard for me to come up with any other interpretation after this. Although no, it's not 100% explicit but I wouldn't bet on my initial guess being right anymore.

last edited at Nov 27, 2023 8:11AM

OK, this is purely me playing devil’s advocate (I was an early adopter of the “Yundou is into Xiaoen” theory, and still hold to it), but was there anything more explicit in this chapter to support that premise than we’ve seen before?

There certainly was more of the same—statements with implied subtext, significant expressions, meaningful framing and cuts from panel to panel, etc. Is it the quantity of suggestions/focus on Yundou’s feelings that sealed the deal for previous doubters?

For me it wasn't quantity, but the fact that the question Yunduo asked was so specific, and that she is visibly disappointed in the answer :P Hard for me to come up with any other interpretation after this. Although no, it's not 100% explicit but I wouldn't bet on my initial guess being right anymore.

The author also seems very specific and intentional, so when Yundao says this and how she chooses to say it potentially means a lot. The previous chapter set up a lot about where her mind is at. Then, here, she asks the question after making sure to reposition herself as close to Xiaoen as possible. She kneels before her and reaches her hand out, near her. She positions herself as close to Xiaoen as possible and looks up in her eyes. That's as intimate as you can get for a "simple" question and reveals where her head was likely at when she asked it. Then all the rest you said, as well. She's not the type of person who will likely ever be explicit.

last edited at Nov 27, 2023 8:38AM

OK, this is purely me playing devil’s advocate (I was an early adopter of the “Yundou is into Xiaoen” theory, and still hold to it), but was there anything more explicit in this chapter to support that premise than we’ve seen before?

There certainly was more of the same—statements with implied subtext, significant expressions, meaningful framing and cuts from panel to panel, etc. Is it the quantity of suggestions/focus on Yundou’s feelings that sealed the deal for previous doubters?

they were both speaking somewhat elliptically so i wouldn't say you're wrong but at the same time i think what the author means for us to infer is much clearer now.

OK, this is purely me playing devil’s advocate (I was an early adopter of the “Yundou is into Xiaoen” theory, and still hold to it), but was there anything more explicit in this chapter to support that premise than we’ve seen before?

There certainly was more of the same—statements with implied subtext, significant expressions, meaningful framing and cuts from panel to panel, etc. Is it the quantity of suggestions/focus on Yundou’s feelings that sealed the deal for previous doubters?

they were both speaking somewhat elliptically so i wouldn't say you're wrong but at the same time i think what the author means for us to infer is much clearer now.

Just to clarify, I'm very interested in the signals that authors use to indicate indirectly what kind of story they're telling and where the story is likely to go. (Not that those signals can't be interpreted incorrectly or that the author can't change their mind over the course of telling the story.)

I've always thought, as I put it before, that "the visual text suggests that there is more to her feelings about Xiaoen than just the standard concern of a long-time best friend," and "the overall text [i.e., words + visuals] suggests that Yundou has something to say to Xiaoen that she isn’t quite saying, at least not yet."

And I throughly agree that we now have a much better idea of what it is Yundou would want to say, even though she's still not quite saying it.

OK, this is purely me playing devil’s advocate (I was an early adopter of the “Yundou is into Xiaoen” theory, and still hold to it), but was there anything more explicit in this chapter to support that premise than we’ve seen before?

There certainly was more of the same—statements with implied subtext, significant expressions, meaningful framing and cuts from panel to panel, etc. Is it the quantity of suggestions/focus on Yundou’s feelings that sealed the deal for previous doubters?

they were both speaking somewhat elliptically so i wouldn't say you're wrong but at the same time i think what the author means for us to infer is much clearer now.

Just to clarify, I'm very interested in the signals that authors use to indicate indirectly what kind of story they're telling and where the story is likely to go. (Not that those signals can't be interpreted incorrectly or that the author can't change their mind over the course of telling the story.)

I've always thought, as I put it before, that "the visual text suggests that there is more to her feelings about Xiaoen than just the standard concern of a long-time best friend," and "the overall text [i.e., words + visuals] suggests that Yundou has something to say to Xiaoen that she isn’t quite saying, at least not yet."

And I throughly agree that we now have a much better idea of what it is Yundou would want to say, even though she's still not quite saying it.

you know, i looked over it again and i think it's far less clear than i thought. based on the text it's completely possible that yunduo is upset because she feels like xiaoen didn't trust her or that she's been a bad friend for not supporting her or something. maybe she's even been trying to set xiaoen up with guys for years. i still think my original interpretation is probably the right one but this was an interesting lesson in how much you can bring to a text.

OK, this is purely me playing devil’s advocate (I was an early adopter of the “Yundou is into Xiaoen” theory, and still hold to it), but was there anything more explicit in this chapter to support that premise than we’ve seen before?

There certainly was more of the same—statements with implied subtext, significant expressions, meaningful framing and cuts from panel to panel, etc. Is it the quantity of suggestions/focus on Yundou’s feelings that sealed the deal for previous doubters?

A very throwaway comment some chapters ago where yundou said to her father
"When it's going to be enough?"

Makes me think she was always a closet case and would probably always follow what her parents wanted her to do, only now that she is an adult is she considering abandoning that.
It goes in direct harmony whit her telling our protagonist to return to her life and not throw it all away for xiaoen, it could be some jealousy but doing what is expected of her is also what she chose/was pressured into doing when she was a young lesbian like her, she was "passing her torch" in a way.

I like her character as it is a very realistic one in a society like that and I hope she can grow with the passage of chapters

A lot of feelings revealed and soothed.

ERRATA
————

Where it says:

“If I'm that important to you, why didn't you tell me earlier that you could like girls?”

It should say:

“If I'm that important to you, why didn't you GO AFTER ME?!?”

Ouch. This is not a conversation you want to have with your rival in love who won and got the girl you wanted!

ERRATA
————

Where it says:

“If I'm that important to you, why didn't you tell me earlier that you could like girls?”

It should say:

“If I'm that important to you, why didn't you GO AFTER ME?!?”

Or "If I'm that important to you, why wasn't I the one able to make your realize you could like girls? What did I do wrong or what did I miss?"

last edited at Nov 27, 2023 2:47PM

[...]
you know, i looked over it again and i think it's far less clear than i thought. based on the text it's completely possible that yunduo is upset because she feels like xiaoen didn't trust her or that she's been a bad friend for not supporting her or something. maybe she's even been trying to set xiaoen up with guys for years. i still think my original interpretation is probably the right one but this was an interesting lesson in how much you can bring to a text.

I really doubt the possibility of her trying to set Mu Xiaoen with guys, considering how she seemed to think of it as a burden when it came from her father. I think that with all that we've been shown so far, her being in love with Mu Xiaoen is the most plausible explanation. But we'll probably see more on this in the next chapter.