If that's how you feel about it you are welcome to that, but from my perspective I think anyone should be allowed to lie about their gender, or rather than say lie, I don't think anyone has a right to demand to know your gender.

It's not a question of "rights." Mitsuki has obviously not committed a literal crime. What she's done is (a) deliberately misled another person (b) in a way she knew, or should've known, would cause them great pain if they found out (as we saw happen in this very chapter) (c) purely in order to preserve this pseudo-friendship pseudo-romance thing she had going on with her. What precise information Aya had a "right" to know about is irrelevant. Mitsuki hurt her. She did a mean thing. She should apologize! (And I'm sure she will.) And that's all I have to say about this.

If you take it upon yourself to make assumptions about me and cause yourself some emotional, mental, or other harm by doing so, it is not my obligation to apologize for your self-harm caused by your assumptions. It is not a "mean thing" done to others by not correcting their assumptions. Especially if you don't know if you'll be safe if you do so. The only person responsible for the thoughts and assumptions you come up with in your head is you. So the only person who needs to apologize for making assumptions is the one who made them, not the one they were made about.

Besties going shopping - sweet
Those shoes with socks are ugly af

Actually it kinda works with that skirt, I guess. They are both stylish 22 year-olds.

(makes me feel challenged as a 21 yo)

Let's agree to disagree as it's a matter of aesthetics and personal taste. Not that I like the skirt btw. All of these IMO are examples of blind following of modern fashion trends guided by big fashion brands to "decutify" and/or "masculinise" women's clothing. It is quite obvious if you follow Vogue fashion runways in the last, say, 5-10 years. The opposite is obviously happening with male clothing. But I digress. Sorry for the offtopic of sorts and a bit of a rant

Damn I kinda like how they look lol.

After the drama it's nice the two of them may become close enough to go shopping like this someday. A day with no gender confusion, no embarrassment about being uncool, no embarrassment you flirted with a girl, no anxious secrets... just absentminded touching and debatable fashion choices. And taking a call while your girlfriend* shops. It's a good end!

Aya's simple skirts in 18.1 and 9.1 flow well, and show personality, but I don't get Arai Sumiko's logic logic with Aya's new shoes. I really don't like the lack of heel counter with the uneven soles ... they're probably not a safety hazard but that particular kind of fake ruggedness irks me.

You people absolutely ridiculous smh… I guess I’ll stay away from the thread (unless I forget lol). But, yeah. Ridiculous.

You people absolutely ridiculous smh… I guess I’ll stay away from the thread (unless I forget lol). But, yeah. Ridiculous.

Always have been.

edit: in the interest of saying something at least slightly on-topic, I'm a fashion disaster and I like the looks they have going. I don't know what that actually says about them, but whatever it is, it's probably not good.

last edited at Aug 30, 2022 1:35AM

Am I missing a few chapters? I don't see the big bad drama.
Yes, Aya's confused and shocked that her "Onii-san" is actually a girl, but that's pretty much it. She's not fallen into depression from it (yet?). Her world isn't falling apart (yet?). It's only just started to sink in, we don't even know her reaction to it, really. We've had two pages/*four panels* for her to react to it. This is being blown so out of proportion...

Arguing from the basis that Mitsuki has "deliberately misled another person in a way she knew, or should've known, would cause them great pain if they found out (as we saw happen in this very chapter)" is grossly misrepresenting what we've been shown (so far).
Asserting that it's "purely in order to preserve this pseudo-friendship pseudo-romance thing she had going on with her" is likewise ludicrous. The more likely explanation is how incredibly awkward fixing the situation would be for Mitsuki, who you might have noticed isn't the most outgoing and self-confident type.
There's a reason people stay in the closet for years or keep presenting as their assigned gender despite being trans, and it's not in order to deliberately mislead people in a way that would cause them "grievous harm". It's to avoid a presumably incredibly awkward situation that might amount to a social catastrophe.

(come on, we need only a couple more posts to hit 1800!)

Am I missing a few chapters? I don't see the big bad drama.
Yes, Aya's confused and shocked that her "Onii-san" is actually a girl, but that's pretty much it. She's not fallen into depression from it (yet?). Her world isn't falling apart (yet?). It's only just started to sink in, we don't even know her reaction to it, really. We've had two pages/*four panels* for her to react to it. This is being blown so out of proportion...

Arguing from the basis that Mitsuki has "deliberately misled another person in a way she knew, or should've known, would cause them great pain if they found out (as we saw happen in this very chapter)" is grossly misrepresenting what we've been shown (so far).
Asserting that it's "purely in order to preserve this pseudo-friendship pseudo-romance thing she had going on with her" is likewise ludicrous. The more likely explanation is how incredibly awkward fixing the situation would be for Mitsuki, who you might have noticed isn't the most outgoing and self-confident type.
There's a reason people stay in the closet for years or keep presenting as their assigned gender despite being trans, and it's not in order to deliberately mislead people in a way that would cause them "grievous harm". It's to avoid a presumably incredibly awkward situation that might amount to a social catastrophe.

(come on, we need only a couple more posts to hit 1800!)

Drama already happened a dozen pages ago or so, it just happened again over the same topic lol.

And chiming in as a trans women, I present like a guy cause it's easier for me atm, that'll eventually change but whatever. If people assume im a guy and are interested in me well too fucking bad for them lol like they're not entitled to any information + it'd be akward as fuck depending on context. The context for Mitsuki ( yes I know not trans before someone inevitably points it out ) would be incredibly akward for someone who doesn't seem to be the most socially at ease person. As it's been pointed out before, she tried to clear up the misunderstanding once and kinda fucked it up, and like do you all really see yourself going to someone you occasionally see at the store you work with "yeah uh so, I've noticed you're crushing on me and fyi im not a dude." like that'd be such an akward and uncomfortable moment for anyone, nonetheless someone who's not the biggest social butterfly out there. Idk why people need that shit spelled out to them, there's no ill intent it's just an akward ass situation lol idk why people are up in arms about morality and shit, the story hasn't even really made a big (negative) deal about it so far.

On the topic of fashion I know nothing about it but they look good and people who disagree with me are incorrect >:)

Drama already happened a dozen pages ago or so, it just happened again over the same topic lol.

Yeah if you're talking forum-thread pages I'm aware, but I just don't see where the big controversial drama comes from with regards to the story. Nothing terrible has happened yet, Aya's reaction is kinda still up in the air. It all seems to be based on reading into the story way beyond what's shown.

REDflame23 posted:

You people absolutely ridiculous smh… I guess I’ll stay away from the thread (unless I forget lol). But, yeah. Ridiculous.

Definitely my preference if you feel that way. Thank you.

cyberninjasio posted:

If you take it upon yourself to make assumptions about me and cause yourself some emotional, mental, or other harm by doing so, it is not my obligation to apologize for your self-harm caused by your assumptions. It is not a "mean thing" done to others by not correcting their assumptions. Especially if you don't know if you'll be safe if you do so. The only person responsible for the thoughts and assumptions you come up with in your head is you. So the only person who needs to apologize for making assumptions is the one who made them, not the one they were made about.

Given that Cogito already stated their preference to leave the argument there, I find your response a bit distasteful. The use of second person doesn't help. Not every argument demands a response. Or two, even.

Zormau posted:

Am I missing a few chapters? I don't see the big bad drama.

No offence intended, but it seems a bit weak to call this drama...

Holy shit this is some bad discourse. I would rather go back to talking about whether it’s realistic for teen girls to like Aerosmith

I’m gonna say meh on that.. there are tons of instances where people, even young people get interested in something from a begone era… Like jazz or classical or ska… plus for the last 5-10 year’s you’d see teens in the us wearing “vintage” themed tshirts spattered with Beatles, Led Zeppelin and AC/DC logos… also the ironic part of this in connection to grunge retro is grunge and a lot of the music of the first half of the 90s was filled with retro throwbacks.. grunge is just punk mixed with 70s heavy rock like Black Sabbath, Blue cheer and Death, then when grunge died you had a swing fad followed by a 2nd ska revival and then you had the whole Brit pop thing which was again rooted in 60s and 70s stuff.. also.. aerosmith was huge at that time…. My guess because of the retro love mixed in the current bands of that time like the black crows and G&R (who sound like aerosmith most of the time anyway).. things cycle around over and over again..

last edited at Aug 31, 2022 8:25PM

Holy shit this is some bad discourse. I would rather go back to talking about whether it’s realistic for teen girls to like Aerosmith

Partly depends on the parents I guess. Now I'm not a girl myself, but I know that my wife largely has similar music preferences as I do and those were shaped in no small part by our parents, who listened to Pink Floyd, CCR, Yes, The Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath and the like. Then again, we both had Goth tendencies in high school (we definitely were (not) among the popular crowd...), so our taste in music was quite far removed from the mainstream anyway. And also, those weren't exactly the bands we usually listened to, those were a bit less dated at the time (though we eventually both came around to Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Boston, CCR and many others).

One's sex is really only relevant to their sexual partners. Anyone else doesn't need to know.

In the process of getting closer and building up some trust between them, one would expect some basic personal information to be revealed, but they're really not in a very close relationship yet. Mitsuki hasn't asked Aya for anything sexual that would require informed consent.

Call back to Chapter 1 :D

My heart can't take it
I hope they will at least be friends (╥﹏╥)

chapter 19 page 4: every husband ever can relate

im sobbing, shaking, throwing up, snot coming out of my nose, panicking, pissing myself alot, dancing in a bad way and jumping in fear

If that's how you feel about it you are welcome to that, but from my perspective I think anyone should be allowed to lie about their gender, or rather than say lie, I don't think anyone has a right to demand to know your gender.

It's not a question of "rights." Mitsuki has obviously not committed a literal crime. What she's done is (a) deliberately misled another person (b) in a way she knew, or should've known, would cause them great pain if they found out (as we saw happen in this very chapter) (c) purely in order to preserve this pseudo-friendship pseudo-romance thing she had going on with her. What precise information Aya had a "right" to know about is irrelevant. Mitsuki hurt her. She did a mean thing. She should apologize! (And I'm sure she will.) And that's all I have to say about this.

If you take it upon yourself to make assumptions about me and cause yourself some emotional, mental, or other harm by doing so, it is not my obligation to apologize for your self-harm caused by your assumptions. It is not a "mean thing" done to others by not correcting their assumptions. Especially if you don't know if you'll be safe if you do so. The only person responsible for the thoughts and assumptions you come up with in your head is you. So the only person who needs to apologize for making assumptions is the one who made them, not the one they were made about.

This is ridiculous. Everybody makes assumptions constantly in everyday life and we require them to function. When I go to McDonald's, I assume the guy behind the register wearing a uniform is the cashier and is gonna take my order, nobody in the history of ever has asked that guy, "Hey sorry, are you the cashier?"

Sorry to say but 99% of the time assuming someone's gender works fine IRL and people do it constantly. Even if someone isn't gender conforming, they must be aware of this. Even the term non-binary in it implies the existence of the binary. Mitsuki is not wrong because she's not disclosing her gender, she's wrong because she knows that Oosawa thinks that she's a dude and is deliberately letting her keep thinking that she is one for her own benefit.

damn how much time passed between chapter 18 and 19

did a whole summer pass between the chapters, they're preparing for the same event as they were in the last chapter though right

damn how much time passed between chapter 18 and 19

did a whole summer pass between the chapters, they're preparing for the same event as they were in the last chapter though right

Japanese schools have three semesters, separated by vacations.
Summer vacation comes after 1st semester, and usually covers the 40-odd days from July 20 to August 31.
Chapter 17 happened on the last day before summer vacation, and then they come to school on another day in summer vacation for preparing the festival in chapter 18.
I think the time span from chapter 18 to 19 is no longer than one month? Since they already have a checklist for their after party program in chapter 18, it looks like it was not their first meeting in summer vacation.

Aya is getting closer to the ''acceptance'' part of her grief process, it's only normal that she needed some time to get there. I hope she does start seeing Mitsuki as her own awesome person now, who's both her beloved ''onii-san'' in essence but also someone who can become a more tangible relationship in her life than some idealized person could ever be.

last edited at Sep 4, 2022 9:07AM

That kinda sounded like she was over being mad about it- I dont think she WANTS to be mad any more- and is probably about to tell Mitsuki she knows?

I hope so- I want them to put this behind them and start on the 'friends' bit- I'm curious how they will interact, both at school and at the record shop now the misunderstanding is gone.

Looks like next time they'll actually talk.

Ooohh it's actually going better than I had feared! Now, Mitsuki, is your turn to face your fears! after all, the fact that you didn't tell her from the start was because you had a wrong image of her, but you should know by now she isn't like that.

I'm also in the side that thinks that, she really didn't have obligation to tell her right away, we all want our safe space, our places to be ourselves and not being bothered by school or anyone AND on top of that, for a while it was just employee and customer service, but then Aya fell in love all on her own.

When they exchanged phones, it was a perfect opportunity to come clear... But fear and insecurities were in the way, we're talking about someone who mastered the ways of invisibility in class.

last edited at Sep 4, 2022 9:36AM

all the parallels, i can't </3 please let this ending be at least bittersweet