Forum › Brides of Iberis discussion

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I'm not really interested in guys take in this story cause why should be?
I don't read yuri works to get male viewpoint presented in them, so maybe if people want it here means it's not a yuri work after all?
Cuse yuri works should be only presentd from female viewpoint in my opinion.

What an ignorant opinion. However, you might have better luck finding stories you enjoy with the tag "404: Men Not Found"

I guess I share the ignorant opinion because I think the only roles men should play, in a yuri, is the abusive boyfriend/husband The MC's escape from, the losing romantic rival, or the comic relief.

Yeah bro rigid narrative pigeonholing is pretty cringe t b h ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I get the impression that my forum-friend johnb is the equivalent of a wine connoisseur with a very particular palate who prefers one specific varietal from a narrowly defined terroir; I haven’t seen him go around to forum threads slagging the presence of men generally, like some of the edgelord wannabes occasionally do.

I think this author is extremely thoughtful and interesting, and I’ve seen a lot of negative responses to their work by readers that A) are anxious to make the characters in the work fit into familiar tropey slots, and B) get disappointed, or even pissed off, when the characters don’t comply. You could almost feel the outrage-energy go out of the room here when it was revealed that Tsuzuki wasn’t a cheater but was in an open relationship.

As others have said, this is going to be a very particular sort of ride, and I’m along for it.

Snowfox
joined Jan 31, 2015

Somehow, realizing that this is by the same author as Octave changes my whole view of it. I guess expectations really do matter. While I know that I will likely appreciate the skill with which the story is woven, I am unlikely to "enjoy" it, if you will.

C2731dea4191b182ecd8f18498562a84
joined Sep 1, 2017

I'm not really interested in guys take in this story cause why should be?
I don't read yuri works to get male viewpoint presented in them, so maybe if people want it here means it's not a yuri work after all?
Cuse yuri works should be only presentd from female viewpoint in my opinion.

What an ignorant opinion. However, you might have better luck finding stories you enjoy with the tag "404: Men Not Found"

I guess I share the ignorant opinion because I think the only roles men should play, in a yuri, is the abusive boyfriend/husband The MC's escape from, the losing romantic rival, or the comic relief.

Yeah bro rigid narrative pigeonholing is pretty cringe t b h ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I find it a bit funny that you cropped my comment to leave out the part where I say, I like to see more men in supportive friend roles.
I'm not against men in yuri, I just feel yuri is for fans of women loving women, so men should be secondary characters.

last edited at Mar 26, 2022 1:34PM

Utenaanthy01
joined Aug 4, 2018

Aaaand the classic Akiyama Churn™ manifests. I had a feeling it'd show up soon, because in Octave as well, nothing was ever simple, no issues so facile as to be dispelled by a simple change of space or attitude. There's always this creeping, encroaching tension between the eagerness of people to forgive, forget, adjust or compromise on the one hand, and on the other what AH seems to view as the fundamental capriciousness of human nature. The principal characters here, much like in Octave, seem obsessed with deferral, with emotional displacement, with a suspicion equal parts terrified and obsessive that there's a Something Out There that might make them happier than they are now, some secret key that they haven't yet found, eternally cooking up golden pasts, hopeful futures or alternative presents to distract them from the growing emptiness of the now, from this gnawing dissatisfaction that they can never shake for long. The momentum of the narrative is the hunger of characters for that Something, the force of that obsession, which shall inevitably be disappointed when it is attained, only to spur a new one, a new phantom from a body that never was that must be verified or exorcised.

Here and in Octave, Akiyama excellently captures the anxiety of ennui, the terror that at 20-something, you've might already peaked and there is nothing ahead but a cavalcade of greying days that blur into each other like the smoke from a million cars on the streets of a shitty town you'll never get to leave. Akiyama's drama is her skill in the construction of the threat of a looming anticlimax, in her insightful portrayal of the lengths that people will go to, both in order to feel and, vitally, to stop feeling. Both here and in Octave, there seem to be no saviors, no Manic Pixie Dream People to bear all your burdens- if you happen to be a queer person grappling with depression and profound alienation by every segment of society in the orifices of a soulless urban hellscape, asks Akiyama, why on earth would you expect someone similar to you, someone who perfectly understands how you feel, to be any less fucked up after suffering the same things?

In lieu of dreams, paradise or solutions, the only solace offered to her characters is to stop thinking, to pull for one seconds their minds free of this churning, yawning abyss of unease. They try to drown themselves in jobs, hobbies, relationships and, most prominently, in sex- the petit-mort in Octave is no amusing euphemism, because it's the only thing that blanks out the jagged, grayscale oppressiveness of Tokyo, letting Yukino and Setsuko melt into each other in seas of blankness, so close that they feel like the same person, returned, if only for a moment, to some manner of primordial Platonic unity, before the ugly edges of Personality arise from orgasmic hazes and plunge them back into the damnation of individuality- a similar sentiment to Tsuzuki's desperation to dispel the irritation that seems to haunt her even in the seeming freedom of her open arrangement. Wedding rings, antique books, blooming flowers, daily planners- frantically, people try to ward off the nothingness with symbols, with bookings, with values. But it presses inward, and all they can do is keep running into ever shifting sets of arms, in webs of bodies with nothing to stand on. Akiyama's worlds are so very raw, so very earnestly, unpretentiously bare... I love them.

That goes without saying. We can feel the love just by looking through your post.
I wish Akiyama could read this. It would certainly warm her heart.

joined Jul 26, 2016

I'm not really interested in guys take in this story cause why should be?
I don't read yuri works to get male viewpoint presented in them, so maybe if people want it here means it's not a yuri work after all?
Cuse yuri works should be only presentd from female viewpoint in my opinion.

What an ignorant opinion. However, you might have better luck finding stories you enjoy with the tag "404: Men Not Found"

I guess I share the ignorant opinion because I think the only roles men should play, in a yuri, is the abusive boyfriend/husband The MC's escape from, the losing romantic rival, or the comic relief.

Yeah bro rigid narrative pigeonholing is pretty cringe t b h ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I find it a bit funny that you cropped my comment to leave out the part where I say, I like to see more men in supportive friend roles.
I'm not against men in yuri, I just feel yuri is for fans of women loving women, so men should be secondary characters.

I quite fail to see how it changes the main point in any meaningful fashion.

I just feel stories and characters should stand, and be judged, by the virtues of their creative and narrative merits and quality of writing (what I personally like to shorthand as "craftsmanship") and not by how many boxes they cross off on some arbitrary checklist of mandatory genre tropes.

C2731dea4191b182ecd8f18498562a84
joined Sep 1, 2017

I'm not really interested in guys take in this story cause why should be?
I don't read yuri works to get male viewpoint presented in them, so maybe if people want it here means it's not a yuri work after all?
Cuse yuri works should be only presentd from female viewpoint in my opinion.

What an ignorant opinion. However, you might have better luck finding stories you enjoy with the tag "404: Men Not Found"

I guess I share the ignorant opinion because I think the only roles men should play, in a yuri, is the abusive boyfriend/husband The MC's escape from, the losing romantic rival, or the comic relief.

Yeah bro rigid narrative pigeonholing is pretty cringe t b h ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I find it a bit funny that you cropped my comment to leave out the part where I say, I like to see more men in supportive friend roles.
I'm not against men in yuri, I just feel yuri is for fans of women loving women, so men should be secondary characters.

I quite fail to see how it changes the main point in any meaningful fashion.

That is one of the reasons I found it funny you cut it there. You took that bit out even though it still fit you point. The paragraph break seemed like the natural cut of point but you seemed to take the extra time to remove that, as well, and I just wondered why.

I just feel stories and characters should stand, and be judged, by the virtues of their creative and narrative merits and quality of writing (what I personally like to shorthand as "craftsmanship") and not by how many boxes they cross off on some arbitrary checklist of mandatory genre tropes.

I get your point about a good story. However it's still should fit the genre. Aliens is a great movie but if someone recommended it to you as a rom-com you would think they lost their mind.
I would totally be on board if someone used male character in a yuri in a new and exciting way as long as the girl got the girl in the end.

joined Jul 26, 2016

That is one of the reasons I found it funny you cut it there. You took that bit out even though it still fit you point. The paragraph break seemed like the natural cut of point but you seemed to take the extra time to remove that, as well, and I just wondered why.

Superfluous to the point either of us was making.

I get your point about a good story. However it's still should fit the genre. Aliens is a great movie but if someone recommended it to you as a rom-com you would think they lost their mind.

But Aliens being sci-fi/horror genre did not particularly precondition the various characters' roles in it, now did it? Aside from a low expected rate of survival somewhat coming with the territory ofc, especially given the example set by the first movie in the franchise...

That being what we're talking about here, not the kind of reductio ad absurdum mislabeling you're throwing here as a counter-example for reasons mystifying to me.

I would totally be on board if someone used male character in a yuri in a new and exciting way as long as the girl got the girl in the end.

Well, yes, but that's hardly what you were saying before. Which was instead basically the equivalent of "stay in the kitchen".

E. Vigée Le Brun
joined Jun 8, 2021

I still can't figure out how Kashiwai will wriggle her way into this bizarre triangular confluence of love/hate emotions. Especially since one of the people involved is her goddamn boss.

Tsuzuki: « If you want to be my sweetie, you have to shag Hiroki and Fukunaga too! »

C2731dea4191b182ecd8f18498562a84
joined Sep 1, 2017

That is one of the reasons I found it funny you cut it there. You took that bit out even though it still fit you point. The paragraph break seemed like the natural cut of point but you seemed to take the extra time to remove that, as well, and I just wondered why.

Superfluous to the point either of us was making.

Well it's just leaving that last part out, makes me sound a bit like a man hating jerk, is all.

I get your point about a good story. However it's still should fit the genre. Aliens is a great movie but if someone recommended it to you as a rom-com you would think they lost their mind.

But Aliens being sci-fi/horror genre did not particularly precondition the various characters' roles in it, now did it? Aside from a low expected rate of survival somewhat coming with the territory ofc, especially given the example set by the first movie in the franchise...

That being what we're talking about here, not the kind of reductio ad absurdum mislabeling you're throwing here as a counter-example for reasons mystifying to me.

I was just using an extreme example to point out some boxes have to be check to fit a genre. Yuri is about women and their relationships so men by design have to take a back seat to the gals. Although I can't see any decent writer would see checking the yuri boxes as an obstacle to writing a good story.

I would totally be on board if someone used male character in a yuri in a new and exciting way as long as the girl got the girl in the end.

Well, yes, but that's hardly what you were saying before. Which was instead basically the equivalent of "stay in the kitchen".

(Sigh) Real talk here. Lilification was being confrontational with the ignorant comment so I jumped in, like an idiot, But in my defence, I think you would be hard pressed to find a male character, in a yuri, that doesn't fit in one of those four broad character types

last edited at Mar 26, 2022 11:17PM

OrangePekoe Admin
Animesher.com_tamako-market-midori-tokiwa-deviantart-950416a
joined Mar 20, 2013

Mod Notes

Alluring though he may be, this is not the johnb Appreciation Thread. Anyone wishing to continue the topic of his broad preferences and opinions is welcome to start that thread. I'm sure it would be a hit. Otherwise, this is the Brides of Iberis thread, so let's please try to avoid long, little-related and nonconstructive tangents.

malibus88 posted:

Don't write it like that cause you will get haunted by Akiyama Haru fanboys.
Honesly they give this author too much credit while in reality it's nothing special.
I'm not really interested in guys take in this story cause why should be?
I don't read yuri works to get male viewpoint presented in them, so maybe if people want it here means it's not a yuri work after all?

This story isn't for you, that's fine. That's why we have tags, so folks may see what interests them and avoid what doesn't. Otherwise, this is not the Akiyama Haru thread. This is not the Octave thread. You may visit those threads if you wish to discuss those topics. Thank you.

IAKi100atT posted:

I hate this author with a passion.

I hate you with a passion bitch, 1v1 me irl

It's a joke. It's obvious it's a joke. That's fair. Be safe, though. Don't want anyone ending up on the news over a yuri fist fight.

OrangePekoe Admin
Animesher.com_tamako-market-midori-tokiwa-deviantart-950416a
joined Mar 20, 2013

Splitting posts for organisation.

Lilification posted:

My earlier comments regarding how much I'd love it if Tsuzuki was an awful woman because I love awful women aside, this development subverting those expectations is positively delicious. It's exquisite. I'm not entirely sure what's going to happen next and that's exciting.

That said, I do wish we could add a new tag, at least to chapter one. Like a "Cheating?" tag, because on the surface that's the impression I feel like we're supposed to get. I feel like changing the tag to polyamory right away takes out some of the surprise regarding the development.

Yeah, that's a very good point. The change was imperfect and unfortunate. In hindsight, I feel as though the Cheating tag should have maybe been left on the first chapter for a week or two. Given how the tag system is set up, going to mark this down as just an unfortunate happening. That I don't expect to be duplicated anytime soon, really. It was quite the turn.

Eri
joined Aug 30, 2020

Tagging system aside, I feel like it's a great set up. A nice alternative to the bait and switch where you start with a positive and end with a negative, starting with a negative and ending up with a positive instead. For the characters, it helps Tsuzuki sink the metaphorical hook into Kashiwai, while for the reader, anyone who isn't dissuaded by the barbs might get pulled in just to see where the ride can go next.

La duchesse de Pecquigny
Avatar%20pecq%2013-22
joined Jun 7, 2021

I still can't figure out how Kashiwai will wriggle her way into this bizarre triangular confluence of love/hate emotions. Especially since one of the people involved is her goddamn boss.

Tsuzuki: « If you want to be my sweetie, you have to shag Hiroki and Fukunaga too! »

NO

Futanair lover
joined Nov 28, 2021

All of this het is giving me a tummy ache.

You can say that again

last edited at Mar 27, 2022 6:16PM

joined Feb 10, 2022

I said "what a complicated relationship" Like this shtty woman wants to drag her to become her "third" love. Then I saw it's the same author as octave a manga which I didnt like tbh not cause of the ntr cause the mc never changed

0003_proc
joined Jul 21, 2019

I hate this author with a passion.

I hate you with a passion bitch, 1v1 me irl

It's a joke. It's obvious it's a joke. That's fair. Be safe, though. Don't want anyone ending up on the news over a yuri fist fight.

It was no joke! I'm covered in bruises, oh the pain

Cornonthekopp
D05536d6-01d1-4527-9102-4cc772fad5ed
joined Jul 6, 2020

You know its an Akiyama Haru work when all the weirdos come out of the woodwork to argue about random shit sheesh

Anyways, she’s so very clearly in love with her and obsessed, I’m just wondering where the author is gonna take it. The obvious (to me) route is that she’s a repressed lesbian who only is marrying her boyfriend out of obligation, and she’s gonna realize that, break up, and have some funny romance times with our poly gal here (although not necessarily in that order), but with the way this story has been going I can’t really predict what’s gonna happen.

Soralaylaff
joined Oct 16, 2013

Dang this chapter was scanlated fast! Thanks for the update!

Hmmm I wonder if we'd need to add the cheating tag on again soon since it's starting to feel like the inevitable direction. Even if it never gets physical, Kashiwai is kinda already emotionally cheating on her fiance. Fukunaga showing up at the shop was a surprise. The interaction at the shop was deliciously awkward lol. I wonder if he was always in the plans or if he was a back up since Kashiwai turned her down earlier.

10466e3de
joined Oct 25, 2014

You know its an Akiyama Haru work when all the weirdos come out of the woodwork to argue about random shit sheesh

Anyways, she’s so very clearly in love with her and obsessed, I’m just wondering where the author is gonna take it. The obvious (to me) route is that she’s a repressed lesbian who only is marrying her boyfriend out of obligation, and she’s gonna realize that, break up, and have some funny romance times with our poly gal here (although not necessarily in that order), but with the way this story has been going I can’t really predict what’s gonna happen.

I don't think Mizuki's sexuality is important in this context. Clearly what she takes issue on is the fact that Tsuzuki doesn't treat love as seriously as she does. That seems to be her main dilemma rather than being gay or what.

Also, a point that no one has brought up yet is that while Tsuzuki claims she loves both her lovers, she doesn't seem as drawn to them as she is to Mizuki. At the very least that's the impression I got from chapter 3. She got together with her current lovers because they seemed to be the only ones who would agree to a poly relationship. But her curiosity and attraction towards Mizuki seems fundamentally different. To start with, she lied to Hiroki went he suggested it was love at first sight. She dismissed the idea, yet in her head she can't shake off her curiosity and attraction towards Mizuki. And even after learning Mizuki doesn't dig her way of life, she's still drawn to her all the same. Just look at this chapter. She took off her dress right away and went after Mizuki in a hurry, leaving one of her lovers alone. Although I doubt he would have a problem with that considering his NTR fetish. lol

last edited at Apr 2, 2022 5:27PM

joined Jan 13, 2021

Tsuzuki: So anyway, the other day one of my boyfriends asked me what I thought about wedding planners, and I said, "Sure, I could wed a planner."

Kashiwai, taking her shirt off: You disgust me.

Utenaanthy01
joined Aug 4, 2018

I see what you did there.

20220118_232511_50
joined Jun 3, 2015

I don't think Mizuki's sexuality is important in this context. Clearly what she takes issue on is the fact that Tsuzuki doesn't treat love as seriously as she does. That seems to be her main dilemma rather than being gay or what.

Is it love that Mizuki takes that seriously, or just the concept of weddings? She seems much more invested in setting up the weddings of others, but almost completely indifferent to her own. Like sure she's overwhelmed by what Tsuzuki is doing because she doesn't know what Tsuzuki's doing. But is she taking issue with Tsuzuki's approach to romance, or to her inserting her triad into Mizuki's ideas about what a wedding should look like.

Because that's what we know for certain Mizuki cares deeply about, giving people a perfect wedding.

last edited at Apr 2, 2022 8:28PM

Screenshot_1644496801
joined May 20, 2018

Blessed. This and Ayano x Miyoshi update just make my wonderful sunday.

joined May 3, 2014

All of this het is giving me a tummy ache.

You can say that again

do as I do, read the comments because that way you get to know what happens in the story without guting yourself out with the ugly H tag :3

10466e3de
joined Oct 25, 2014

I don't think Mizuki's sexuality is important in this context. Clearly what she takes issue on is the fact that Tsuzuki doesn't treat love as seriously as she does. That seems to be her main dilemma rather than being gay or what.

Is it love that Mizuki takes that seriously, or just the concept of weddings?

Probably both. Or more precisely, she seems to believe a perfect wedding is the natural result of the perfect love. Heck, she said so herself here:

"She really loves her boyfriend, and her boyfriend really loves her too. I'm sure it will be a fabulous ceremony, like an explosion of bliss."

The concept of a perfect wedding and perfect love are deeply intertwined in her mind. In a way, this explains why she's not all that into her own wedding. Meaning, she probably isn't all that into her boyfriend to begin with.

But a much more interesting question is how this concept applies to Tsuzuki. Was Mizuki just projecting on Tsuzuki and then unilaterally getting disappointed when it turned out Tsuzuki didn't fit into her preconception? That's part of it, of course. But maybe Tsuzuki is actually more similar to Mizuki than meets the eye. Maybe Tsuzuki's sorta lack of interest in her wedding also hints a lack of interest in her lovers. Chapter 3 did kinda suggests she got together with these dudes simply because they were the first ones who understood and sort of shared her approach to relationships. But I didn't get the sense that she truly loves them.

last edited at Apr 2, 2022 10:45PM

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