Jesus, karp—you don’t like the pattern, and you want “development” you’re not getting—do you think anybody doesn’t get that? I know perfectly well what you’re arguing, and have from the start, since you keep repeating it over and over.

...but I'm not just saying "I don't like it." I'm pointing out that it's a pattern and asking what other interpretations would explain it, given that it's not leading to character development or anything else dynamic. Again, like, what's the problem with that? It's discussion.

Your lack of reading comprehension suggests that there is something seriously wrong here—I explicitly said that (in your hyperbolic interpretation) Kase is being Puritanical (“slut-shaming”), not you.

Oh, well this makes a little more sense, so thanks for the clarification. But it's not like Kase (or the author) has to have puritanical beliefs in order to have this happen, so I'm still not sure we're on the same page.

You seem amazed that everyone doesn’t have the same visceral disgust with this series that you do, and nothing anyone says seems to change that. I’m certainly done trying.

No, I'm amazed that a small number of people (you and maybe 1 or 2 others) were surprised that I was making the interpretation I was making. That is, I would have thought that, even if people disagreed with my interpretation, that making an interpretation using that kind of lens would be old hat in a community like this.

Speaking of which, I'm still very curious about this:

You're kinda trying to have it both ways, here. You're chiding me for trying to interpret the story's themes in the first place, but then you spend the rest of your post telling me my interpretations of those themes are wrong. I'm confused:
Are you against the very notion of asking the question if anything in a manga is problematic (as the above suggests), or do you think this particular manga isn't problematic (as you suggest below)? The former nullifies the latter, so I don't get your stance.

I bring this up again because I legit am not sure if your hostility is from me having the pseudo-feminist framework in the first place, or from disagreement about the specific interpretation of this manga within that framework. I do not think you can claim to not be reacting as if what I'm saying is unwelcome, so it'd be helpful moving forward to know the reason.

last edited at Jun 7, 2020 3:19AM

You can spin in your little self-contained hamster wheel until doomsday if you like—I said I’m done.

You said you might be interpreting it wrong. People told you why you're interpreting it wrong. You get annoyed that people tell you you're interpreting it wrong and insist you're interpreting it right. I want to know what exactly your goal is in this conversation. You wonder what other people think, yet despite many people telling you exactly what they think, you keep dismissing them and trying to force people to discuss only your interpretation instead, when people clearly told you why they disagree with it and don't want to discuss it.

You said you might be interpreting it wrong. People told you why you're interpreting it wrong. You get annoyed that people tell you you're interpreting it wrong and insist you're interpreting it right. I want to know what exactly your goal is in this conversation. You wonder what other people think, yet despite many people telling you exactly what they think, you keep dismissing them and trying to force people to discuss only your interpretation instead, when people clearly told you why they disagree with it and don't want to discuss it.

My personal goal in the conversation in the last couple of exchanges was to understand whether Warlock (and potentially anyone else) believes it's inappropriate to deem anything about a manga to be problematic, or whether THIS PARTICULAR interpretation of a manga's problematicness was wrong. Those contradict one another, but he was arguing both simultaneously, which is extremely confusing.

I think it's important because frankly if "the very question if something can be problematic is ridiculous and unwelcome" is a norm around here, that's a sign of a poisonous community and I know not to post here anymore. If it's the latter, that's just a disagreement and it doesn't matter.

Beyond that, I'm confused about your "force people to discuss" thing. How's anyone forcing anyone to do anything?

last edited at Jun 7, 2020 3:58PM

"the very question if something can be problematic is ridiculous and unwelcome"

People here certainly call lots of other manga here problematic. Well, the words used are often more like "fucked up" or "rapey" or "disturbing", but same idea.

OTOH I prefer not to complain about things much; the forums are most useful to me when providing more information and depth and pointing out nice details I missed. Shared positivity is cool too. Shared negativity, not so much; mentioning is one thing, long arguments over it another.

And here i am just enjoying for what it is.

“Problematic” is a weasel word.

Things that would be offensive or socially unacceptable or disgusting or wrong or criminal in real life or in the context of different genres are perceived as funny, or pleasurable, or ironic, or whatever in other fictional contexts (Plato hated that about comedy in particular, but most people have basically ignored him for thousands of years).

And “Warlock”? WTF, is that what you see written for my Dynasty username? No wonder you don’t understand my posts.

last edited at Jun 7, 2020 7:47PM

"offensive or socially unacceptable or disgusting or wrong or criminal"

Those are very different things, and often subjective, by individual or by society. That I find something disgusting doesn't mean it is, or should be, socially unacceptable or criminal.

This site is dedicated to girl/girl love, which has been considered all of those things.

And 'problematic' can mean "I like something because of something that would harmful/wrong in real life" (rape fantasy, say) or "I like something despite its problems, which it would be better without", like Lovecraft and racism, or possibly Kase's controlling jealousy in this manga. (Though latter might be the first problematic for someone!) Can also mean "there's some sort of social acceptance flaw here but it would take more words than I want to spend to say exactly what, so I'll just use problematic and move on".

Can also mean "there's some sort of social acceptance flaw here but it would take more words than I want to spend to say exactly what, so I'll just use problematic and move on".

Thank you for that very astute definition of “weasel words.”

Why is it whenever I come into this MFing comment section to talk amongst other fans.. its just people arguing. What feels like a two year long argument. Jesus christ.

Hooray for updates tho! I just got to the party late.

Damnnn yalls be writing whole essays for a fucking yuri manga. Still glad Yamada is headstrong tho :)

Man, Yamada never changes. I've kinda given up on the idea of her ever getting over her inferiority complexes, at least she realized it was silly pretty quickly.

I kinda want Kase to remain brown, heh. She makes for a good contrast with Yamada.

The flower field on the chapter cover and on page 20 is insane, props to the author.

Why do i only get irritated at her? Cause your unconsciously jealous of Yamada that's why.

Cmooooon, this progress is so slow and unsatisfying. I want to see the tearful coming to understanding and making up but the way it's coming feels aimless and ungraceful. Also the restrictions of this college situation seem insanely onerous for people who are supposed to be adults.

stay strong yamada

Well, it's a seemingly rather deep inferiority complex, it's not really something you get over with the push of a button no matter how many kind words your GF throws at you. Even if it gets better the niggling thoughts will still be there, and occasionally you will listen to the voices despite how much you know they are wrong. For what it's worth I think it's a rather realistic approach to such issues, even if I get how annoying it can be in fiction.

The fact that Yamada didn't run away from the issue and instead decided to stay the full time anyhow seems to suggest she has at least learnt something over the years, even though she's not over her problems yet.

last edited at Jul 28, 2020 7:57PM

It's unlikely for fictional couples to sit down and talk about their problems together seeing as the conflict is intensified by lack of communication. In Yamada's case, talking wouldn't really help since her inferiority complex is severe. Though it's not completely unfounded. Kase is busy with training. They hardly ever spend time with each other. Kase is surrounded with women that harbor the same interests and has a roommate who is getting to know her possibly more than Yamada is. It's understandable that Yamada's feeling this way.

Though the fact that she was able to focus on the Portucala means that she is indeed growing. She might not be getting rid of her anxieties but she's maturing and becoming better equipped with handling her feelings. It's nice to see that she's not dwelling but nor is she forcing her self to overcome her concerns. It's all coming together naturally for her... though I still wish she and Kase would talk together about their future.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kase offhandedly mentioned the company runner thing and forgot about it. I mean, I know she loves to run but perhaps she'd be more suited to become a gym teacher or a coach if she's unable to become a professional athlete.

Cmooooon, this progress is so slow and unsatisfying. I want to see the tearful coming to understanding and making up but the way it's coming feels aimless and ungraceful. Also the restrictions of this college situation seem insanely onerous for people who are supposed to be adults.

Aimless and ungraceful, as life often is. While I agree that the manga is slow, I think it's more due to the release schedule than the actual pace of the manga.

Why do i only get irritated at her? Cause your unconsciously jealous of Yamada that's why.

Right—because you’re a lesbian, Fukami, and you’ve got the hots for your dorky, annoying, and incredibly hot (and sweet) roommate, but she’s taken by an even dorkier shrimp who was raised in a hydroponic vat.

And you sense all that without quite admitting it to yourself.

PS: A word of advice: do not be mean to the plant girl—it will not help with the roommate situation. Not one little bit.

Damnnn yalls be writing whole essays for a fucking yuri manga. Still glad Yamada is headstrong tho :)

It's Dynasty afterall, it's entertaining to read nonetheless tho and same, it puts a smile on my face, to see her still headstrong/growing.

Sometimes these forums get a little crazy.... well, anyway, I’m glad this is still going. Can’t wait for the next chapter!

It just feels like it forgets a lot of the progress they made as a couple in the original just to repeat Yamada's insecurities over and over again. Thankfully she did make some progress in this chapter but still feels like it's gone backward from the original.

The cycle of yuri life.

I like Fukami tho. I always have soft spot for cool girl with long straight black hair, so I want to see her get someone too, just not Kase. Let's see.. guess Fukami x Inoue senpai is not bad at all. Come onnnn let's add more yuri couple hereee

Good heavens, just look at the time!
Drama Drama Drama Drama Drama Drama try to look at Yamada's panties from afar Drama Drama Drama Drama Drama Drama

Is it too much to ask that they spend at least 1 hour fucking together?