Well, at least Mama Niito was aware of the huge risk she was taking and Imoko was innocent all along.

That's still a dick move from Mom. What do you mean "not any other options" ? I know you're desperate about her but baiting her like that is not the best solution and if it's the only you have come with then i'm seriously afraid. You're lucky that work this time.

What other options do you see in a country where seeking psychiatric help is a much more massive taboo than almost anywhere else, and where companies are infamous for gross mistreatment of their rank-and-file employees while comparatively coddling manager-level ones to the point that the language has a specific word for "death by overwork" and divorce almost always comes hand in hand with ruining your career prospects?

last edited at Feb 13, 2020 4:26PM

I actually applaud the mom for that stunt. Smart move since the girl obviously needed a push. Sometimes a kick in the arse is better than a slow prodding. Specially since the previous attempts following the gentle approach only built up anxiety in the girl

There's no way this would have ended that way given the circumstances of the story to date. Given her fear of responsibility is one of the main things that drives her into a corner, having it just shoved onto her and her being able to handle it is puzzling. I get the angle they were trying to tackle; namely she's working so hard she doesn't even have time to think about her anxiety, but that's just not how it works. Especially for Neeko.

I'm actually perplexed the author decided to make this scenario work out so well. It's like they wanted a reason for us to look at the mother less cynically, since she has always been perceived as the typical well-meaning parent who doesn't understand there's really a real problem.

Well, at least Mama Niito was aware of the huge risk she was taking and Imoko was innocent all along.

That's still a dick move from Mom. What do you mean "not any other options" ? I know you're desperate about her but baiting her like that is not the best solution and if it's the only you have come with then i'm seriously afraid. You're lucky that work this time.

What other options do you see in a country where seeking psychiatric help is a much more massive taboo than almost anywhere else, and where companies are infamous for gross mistreatment of their rank-and-file employees while comparatively coddling manager-level ones to the point that the language has a specific word for "death by overwork" and divorce almost always comes hand in hand with ruining your career prospects?

It's true that Japan has taboos against psychiatric help, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the "do it yourself" remedies that people suffering from psychological problems and their caregivers try will necessarily work. I'm in the camp that believes that Neeko being suddenly thrust into a part-time job (as a result of her mother lying to her, no less) and coming out better off for it is highly improbable, and the entire experience could very well have worsened her issues.

I'm so glad it ended up happily and not with her being traumatized forever

Good thing she was working backstage.

I still have no idea how she even landed the job, isn't there supposed to be an entire interview process. If I could just show up somewhere and be employed I'd have done it by now.

There are things like temporary staffing agencies that will hook you up with a single-day's part time job. Stores will use them to get emergency help on big days (like the day of a major release).

I think the fact that Neeko didn't have to deal with customers was a big reason for her success. That, and the short shift time!

I still have no idea how she even landed the job, isn't there supposed to be an entire interview process. If I could just show up somewhere and be employed I'd have done it by now.

It reminds me a bit of the job application process in the Persona series. You pick up an application, make a call to the manager, and if your stats are high enough*, you can start work immediately, and work whenever you like; you're free to quit** whenever you're done with the social link and don't need money/stat points. As much as I enjoy those games, I know that part-time jobs don't work that way.

*Depending on the game, this can be easy or very difficult; for example, the tutoring job in Persona 4 requires maxed out Understanding, making the Tower Social Link difficult to start.

**That said, in Persona 4's Tower Social Link, the boy you're tutoring tells you he doesn't need your services anymore at the end of the social link, so there's a justification for why you don't need to show up to work any longer.

Well that was a crap chapter. It was an unrealistic outcome even considering she didn't have to deal with the hell that is a customer service job during a sale. (Those are bad enough under normal circumstances. Customers are crap.) It was very unlikely that things would turn out as successfully as they did and the mother shouldn't be let off the hook for something that was very likely to just make things worse.

I'm conflicted about this

On the one hand

1) Must be nice to have people just straight up buy you shit

2) That mom is a fuck face

Two completely contradicting thoughts but I feel them both.

I mean hell it could have been worse, Neeko could have had to actually deal with those fucking bastards(aka customers)

You did it Neeko!!! Almost everyone swears under their breath at work so she did good.
That milf did a good thing I think, throw them in the deep end swim or drown.... I liked the color page at the end with them playing a super nes... Even though they just got a switch....

boy was i scared , i couldnt wait for this chapters thinking how she would become a complete hikikomori if she failed or how she would grow as a person if she succeded.

Well, at least Mama Niito was aware of the huge risk she was taking and Imoko was innocent all along.

That's still a dick move from Mom. What do you mean "not any other options" ? I know you're desperate about her but baiting her like that is not the best solution and if it's the only you have come with then i'm seriously afraid. You're lucky that work this time.

What other options do you see in a country where seeking psychiatric help is a much more massive taboo than almost anywhere else, and where companies are infamous for gross mistreatment of their rank-and-file employees while comparatively coddling manager-level ones to the point that the language has a specific word for "death by overwork" and divorce almost always comes hand in hand with ruining your career prospects?

It's true that Japan has taboos against psychiatric help, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the "do it yourself" remedies that people suffering from psychological problems and their caregivers try will necessarily work. I'm in the camp that believes that Neeko being suddenly thrust into a part-time job (as a result of her mother lying to her, no less) and coming out better off for it is highly improbable, and the entire experience could very well have worsened her issues.

You do realize that Mama Niito literally admitted that she knew this ploy could've backfired majorly and was fretting over it when her daughters weren't looking, right? Also, that doesn't actually answer my question, though you're not the one I was aiming it at.

Well, at least Mama Niito was aware of the huge risk she was taking and Imoko was innocent all along.

That's still a dick move from Mom. What do you mean "not any other options" ? I know you're desperate about her but baiting her like that is not the best solution and if it's the only you have come with then i'm seriously afraid. You're lucky that work this time.

What other options do you see in a country where seeking psychiatric help is a much more massive taboo than almost anywhere else, and where companies are infamous for gross mistreatment of their rank-and-file employees while comparatively coddling manager-level ones to the point that the language has a specific word for "death by overwork" and divorce almost always comes hand in hand with ruining your career prospects?

It's true that Japan has taboos against psychiatric help, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the "do it yourself" remedies that people suffering from psychological problems and their caregivers try will necessarily work. I'm in the camp that believes that Neeko being suddenly thrust into a part-time job (as a result of her mother lying to her, no less) and coming out better off for it is highly improbable, and the entire experience could very well have worsened her issues.

You do realize that Mama Niito literally admitted that she knew this ploy could've backfired majorly and was fretting over it when her daughters weren't looking, right? Also, that doesn't actually answer my question, though you're not the one I was aiming it at.

I wasn't necessarily trying to answer the question, as much as challenge the assertion that this was the best choice available to the mother at this point; her previous efforts at getting Neeko to help out had similar benefits, with less risk of backfiring. Mama Niito did admit that there was a risk, but in the end, mainly emphasized that it had paid off.

KangaNoodles posted:

That milf did a good thing I think, throw them in the deep end swim or drown....

You know that an actual anxiety problem, as Neeko appears to have, can't simply be solved this way, right? In fact trying to do so is far more likely to make things worse. The best case scenario in such a situation is simply that it maintains the status quo.

It's interesting, as someone with relatively bad anxiety who barely functions as an adult, that the plot didn't rub me the wrong way.

But when I get kicked into doing something the initial terror almost always gives way to just...getting it done. The experience cannot be as bad as what I imagine it will be, that's what anxiety is. So if you don't just immediately spiral out of control, things will rapidly get better. At least until the next time.

Though, in my case ADHD is a major factor. So rather than my anxiety alone being super intense, its more that I can't overcome inertia and push past the immediate pain of anxiety and effort in general in pursuit of some long-term benefits (since the impairment of executive function in ADHD makes it hard to hold a realistic image of, and thus properly assess and appreciate, long-term consequences and benefits).

So yeah, this felt reasonable and true to my experience, but then, maybe it's not reasonable and true to the issues Neeko's been shown to have. I don't actually remember the finer details of her condition, to be honest.

I see a lot of people hating on the mother commenting here. Nobody seems to be trying to even think of looking at it from a parents point of view. Lot of you must be like angsty teen age or have bad relationships with their parents, which is understandable.

But has anyone here actually commented on an alternative to dealing with Neeko other than "the mom's a bitch just leave neeko alone alone"? For you people saying "oh in real life that's unacceptable, she needed some other form of help i don't really wanna specify on but certainly not trying to make her part of society", what else should they do? Should they just spoil her until they die? Then what? At that point she's all grown up and isn't equipped to sustain herself. She'll either end up like shio's mom in Happy Sugar Life or even worse Emergence level shit. I applaud the mom for always being tough and strict on Neeko, coz it's for her own good, she needs to learn to live coz even if they do spoil her, other people won't, and when they're gone, what's left for Neeko?

The whole family including the mom are actually hyper supportive compared to real world parents (for those who keep trying to compare this manga to real life) who have neet children. If you think being the mom being strict is so bad, then you guys prolly haven't seen much of the real world while simultaneously referencing the real world, which is pretty sad.

Guess every single community in the internet has toxic parts of it, even this beautiful yuri community.

Also, before you guys start spouting things like "oh, real anxiety problems need to be dealt with more cautiously", "oh in reasl life those things are too harsh they're so mean" how about in real life, you don't have infinite money to sustain a family with only one parent working, or in real life you actually age and people die eventually. Kids here commenting and taking only bits and pieces of the story and applying it to real life getting annoying af.

Also, before you guys start spouting things like "oh, real anxiety problems need to be dealt with more cautiously", "oh in reasl life those things are too harsh they're so mean" how about in real life, you don't have infinite money to sustain a family with only one parent working, or in real life you actually age and people die eventually. Kids here commenting and taking only bits and pieces of the story and applying it to real life getting annoying af.

But has anyone here actually commented on an alternative to dealing with Neeko other than "the mom's a bitch just leave neeko alone alone"?

Yes, do it gradually maybe or like i said elsewhere, still baiting with the Switch BUT tell her she had to work for it. It's a carrot and stick method and you can't do it everytime but at least that's a good start.

Guess every single community in the internet has toxic parts of it, even this beautiful yuri community.

Can't believe you're since 5 years and didn't realise it sooner.

TimSuu posted:

Also, before you guys start spouting things like "oh, real anxiety problems need to be dealt with more cautiously", "oh in reasl life those things are too harsh they're so mean" how about in real life, you don't have infinite money to sustain a family with only one parent working, or in real life you actually age and people die eventually. Kids here commenting and taking only bits and pieces of the story and applying it to real life getting annoying af.

People have repeatedly stated that the mother isn't wrong for wanting to do something about Neeko's problems but specifically how she's going about it. What she's doing is far more likely to result in it backfiring and making things worse than actually helping.

in real life you actually age and people die eventually.

Coincidentally this is also relevant. You know what happens far too often with people who struggle with severe anxiety problems and depression like Neeko does? When they're pushed too far they far too frequently attempt or succeed at committing suicide. People die eventually indeed. Sorry that some of us value someone's life more than some money. (Which her family clearly isn't terribly strapped for to begin with.)

Guess every single community in the internet has toxic parts of it, even this beautiful yuri community.

Can't believe you're since 5 years and didn't realise it sooner.

I'm personally more surprised by the poster calling people criticisms of Mama Niito's well-intentioned but morally gray ruse to get her daughter to go to work "toxic." Online discussions can get rather nasty, but so far, this is reasonable debate over whether a character's actions are right or wrong, and while I'm in the latter camp, I think there is evidence in support of both sides of the argument (which, for the record, is not "Mama Niito was right" vs. "Mama Niito should get off her daughter's back," but rather, "Mama Niito made the right decision," vs. "Mama Niito should have tried something else").

last edited at Feb 15, 2020 9:10PM

I see a lot of people hating on the mother commenting here. Nobody seems to be trying to even think of looking at it from a parents point of view. Lot of you must be like angsty teen age or have bad relationships with their parents, which is understandable.

But has anyone here actually commented on an alternative to dealing with Neeko other than "the mom's a bitch just leave neeko alone alone"? For you people saying "oh in real life that's unacceptable, she needed some other form of help i don't really wanna specify on but certainly not trying to make her part of society", what else should they do? Should they just spoil her until they die? Then what? At that point she's all grown up and isn't equipped to sustain herself. She'll either end up like shio's mom in Happy Sugar Life or even worse Emergence level shit. I applaud the mom for always being tough and strict on Neeko, coz it's for her own good, she needs to learn to live coz even if they do spoil her, other people won't, and when they're gone, what's left for Neeko?

The whole family including the mom are actually hyper supportive compared to real world parents (for those who keep trying to compare this manga to real life) who have neet children. If you think being the mom being strict is so bad, then you guys prolly haven't seen much of the real world while simultaneously referencing the real world, which is pretty sad.

Guess every single community in the internet has toxic parts of it, even this beautiful yuri community.

as someone who has studied psychology and also has mental health first aid, I can say that all of this is wrong and very harmful. someone with General Anxiety Disorder (GAD) does not need someone forcing them into situations that cause anxiety, they need professional help.

last edited at Feb 24, 2020 11:04PM

I don't find this very satisfying, if only because it's being presented to us as a good thing when actually it was a single round of russian roulette that went 'click'.