The only thing I have to say about Ch. 52 was that I was surprised to learn that clarinets could be part of something called a "brass band" considering that it's a woodwind instrument.

Well... Even though saxophones are made of metal, their structure is similar to the likes of oboas, clarinets and flutes, so saxophones are also counted as woodwind instruments, despite not containing any wood (well, the same "woodwind instruments, despite not containing any wood" thing also applies to flutes, but you get my point), so a woodwind instrument being in a brass band isn't nearly as far-fetched as you'd expect.

The only thing I have to say about Ch. 52 was that I was surprised to learn that clarinets could be part of something called a "brass band" considering that it's a woodwind instrument.

I think that there’s the “official” definition—there are brass band clubs and competitions, etc.—and then there’s an informal “band consisting of instruments you blow into rather than instruments with strings, and which plays brass-band music” idiom. Clarinets definitely fit in the latter.

Is it just me, or was the whole “clarinet/nimble fingers” thing sort of lewd?

I think that was the point. People who play instruments often have very nimble fingers (percussion can fuck off I guess). Nimble fingers are like magic for lesbians.

Hey, waaaaitaminnit. Have you even SEEN a drummer work those sticks? You wanna talk about nimble fingers...

The only thing I have to say about Ch. 52 was that I was surprised to learn that clarinets could be part of something called a "brass band" considering that it's a woodwind instrument.

Well... Even though saxophones are made of metal, their structure is similar to the likes of oboas, clarinets and flutes, so saxophones are also counted as woodwind instruments, despite not containing any wood (well, the same "woodwind instruments, despite not containing any wood" thing also applies to flutes, but you get my point), so a woodwind instrument being in a brass band isn't nearly as far-fetched as you'd expect.

Actually, Saxophones are classified as woodwind because of the wooden reed on the mouthpiece. The distinction between brass and woodwind in an orchestra can be pretty well split up by the style of mouthpiece. The exception is actually flutes, which (usually) have lip-plate style mouthpieces that don't have wooden reeds.

But "brass band" is kind of a vague term. It can refer to a military band, a marching band, or certain types of jazz bands, and a Clarinet wouldn't be out of place in any of those. It's hard to tell from the context what type of band they're talking about, too. She says she'd have a hard time playing in front of people, so you get the impression this is a little private group that plays for fun, which seems more likely for a jazz band.

That said, https://www.theclarinet.net/History/cleveland-brass-metal-clarinet.html It's not like clarinets can't also be made of brass anyway.

The Pilot is not canon. It is a proof of concept, nothing else. We really don't need wishful thinking for a series that is already overtly gay.

The pilot is as canon as canon can be.

And Tadokoro-san is still a great series, no matter how much you hate and insult it.

You really need to stop confusing your personal likes and dislikes with universal truths.

While I'm pretty sure the conversation in the pilot happened at some point in the main story, the pilot itself can't be considered canon. Most pilot one shot are never canon the their serialized version, and this one is no exception considering the little difference you can find compared to the main version

I agree that there’s nothing in the pilot that’s incommensurate with the rest of the series, so to me the argument about whether it’s “canon” is rather beside the point, but I don’t agree that Kasumi’s reaction to Sakurako’s “pouncing” is a definitive statement of specifically sexual interest.

I take her “Why would I resist?” response as an actual question, one of her standard “I need a compelling reason to do more than I want to do, which is nothing” questions. So the “this” she’s “not against” is basic skinship with Sakurako. The situation is Sakurako’s (supposed) testing of Kasumi’s reaction to being “attacked,” but obviously Kasumi doesn’t read Sakurako as a danger, since she’s just doing what they normally do, only in a more uncomfortable (to Kasumi) posture.

When Kasumi asks,”Do I have to do something like that?” about pretty much anything, a person better have a pretty good answer ready, or she’s going to go to sleep. Or, as in this case, back to sleep.

The Pilot is not canon. It is a proof of concept, nothing else. We really don't need wishful thinking for a series that is already overtly gay.

The pilot is as canon as canon can be.

And Tadokoro-san is still a great series, no matter how much you hate and insult it.

You really need to stop confusing your personal likes and dislikes with universal truths.

Are you just trying to get a rise out of me with that nonsense?
On the off chance that you are not, please think before typing. If the definition of a one-shot pilot in manga wasn't contradicting you enough, the idea that this could be the first chapter is even more laughable. I'd suggest re-reading the series. The pilot cannot happen at the start of the series, for it skips almost every development it had.

You still seem upset about your own misunderstanding in a different conversation. Get over it. Move on.

I agree that there’s nothing in the pilot that’s incommensurate with the rest of the series, so to me the argument about whether it’s “canon” is rather beside the point.

It doesn't contradict the overall theme of the manga, as it is the core idea of the story crystallized in one chapter (hence proof of concept), but it is clearly off from the dynamic that the actual serialisation established. Sakurako is way too forward, when their relationship actually started out much tamer and changed over a long period of time. Their personalities are off too. It simply doesn't fit into the canon, even if it treads closely.

last edited at Mar 30, 2019 5:32PM

Oho, next one is already ch. 53. I'm so looking forward to it. One of my favs in the manga.

I agree that there’s nothing in the pilot that’s incommensurate with the rest of the series, so to me the argument about whether it’s “canon” is rather beside the point.

I'd say it's a standard part of the series. When serialization began, the author made an effort to make everything in the series fit with the pilot -- even the small details, like Kasumi's dress in her first meeting with Sakurako. In numbers, the pilot should be chapter 0 of the manga, thus as "canon" as the rest of the chapters.

I take her “Why would I resist?” response as an actual question, one of her standard “I need a compelling reason to do more than I want to do, which is nothing” questions. So the “this” she’s “not against” is basic skinship with Sakurako. The situation is Sakurako’s (supposed) testing of Kasumi’s reaction to being “attacked,” but obviously Kasumi doesn’t read Sakurako as a danger, since she’s just doing what they normally do, only in a more uncomfortable (to Kasumi) posture.

Imho, we'd have to assume Kasumi is way more dense or spacey than she actually is to make that work. "If I was against this, we wouldn't be sleeping in the same bed." Sakurako knows Kasumi is ok with skinship, and Kasumi knows that Sakurako knows, but this time Sakurako's behavior and reactions are wildly different -- and there's no way a girl like Kasumi wouldn't realize what the whole scene is about. Heck, even an obtuse boy who just turned into a girl would get it right, as shown in that example that was in the OP.

But I do understand that ymmv.

Is it just me, or was the whole “clarinet/nimble fingers” thing sort of lewd?

Hehe, the magical fingers of a musician, one of the oldest clichés in the book.

As demonstrated here by Suzi Nielsen from MA3. Thank you, Miss Nielsen.

I'd say it's a standard part of the series. When serialization began, the author made an effort to make everything in the series fit with the pilot -- even the small details, like Kasumi's dress in her first meeting with Sakurako. In numbers, the pilot should be chapter 0 of the manga, thus as "canon" as the rest of the chapters.

You mean this dress: https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_room_for_two_ch01#8 and this one: https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_room_for_two_a_room_for_two#9 ? They are kinda different actually. And a lot of detail, like the handmade kotatsu, just don't fit in the end.

Oho, next one is already ch. 53. I'm so looking forward to it. One of my favs in the manga.

Ah... Quick question: how many chapters until the English translation catches up to the original Japanese releases?

Also, since I was thinking in advance about the possibility of people misinterpreting the intent behind this post, a quick clarification: I'm NOT in a hurry, I'm just curious.

You’re right, the reading of that scene is a “ymmv” deal.

But I thought this was an odd way to put the argument:

Imho, we'd have to assume Kasumi is way more dense or spacey than she actually is to make that work.

Considering that the whole sequence is set up by Sakurako musing about Kasumi, “Considering that she’s always so spacey, what is she going to do if she gets attacked all of a sudden?”

I think we all agree that one part of what Kasumi is saying to Sakurako is, “What you’re doing doesn’t bother me enough to make the effort to resist.”

As I’ve said before, my view is and has been these two love each other and are as “together” as together can be. But I have yet to see a specifically sexual read of the relationship (from Kasumi’s POV) that’s based on something more overt than an ambiguous inference.

(We may just be arguing about the difference between, “I don’t mind having sex with you because it’s too much trouble to object” and “I want to have sex with you.” lol)

Personally, I read this as "I won't object because it's you, now if you are finished let me sleep"

Is it just me, or was the whole “clarinet/nimble fingers” thing sort of lewd?

Hehe, the magical fingers of a musician, one of the oldest clichés in the book.

(https://i.ibb.co/tZGHtKF/Clipboard01.jpg)

As demonstrated here by Suzi Nielsen from MA3. Thank you, Miss Nielsen.

And because I'm a giant weirdo, all I thought was "Huh, she must be a lefty then, because she's using her pick hand and not her fretting hand otherwise", and I can't say there's a lot of extra dexterity in the pick hand compared to the fret hand. XD

Bass, or piano, on the other hand... (pun intended)

last edited at Mar 30, 2019 10:14PM by Nezchan

Bass, or piano, on the other hand... (pun intended)

Bassists need time out for manual breathing, tho. :U

You’re right, the reading of that scene is a “ymmv” deal.

But I thought this was an odd way to put the argument:

Imho, we'd have to assume Kasumi is way more dense or spacey than she actually is to make that work.

Considering that the whole sequence is set up by Sakurako musing about Kasumi, “Considering that she’s always so spacey, what is she going to do if she gets attacked all of a sudden?”

I think we all agree that one part of what Kasumi is saying to Sakurako is, “What you’re doing doesn’t bother me enough to make the effort to resist.”

As I’ve said before, my view is and has been these two love each other and are as “together” as together can be. But I have yet to see a specifically sexual read of the relationship (from Kasumi’s POV) that’s based on something more overt than an ambiguous inference.

(We may just be arguing about the difference between, “I don’t mind having sex with you because it’s too much trouble to object” and “I want to have sex with you.” lol)

You might well be right.

In the end, it's plain that the author prefers to keep it ambiguous -- probably because she feels it's not really that relevant to the focal point of the series, which is the love story of Kasumi and Sakurako. I was just rereading the other day some old manga by Akiko Morishima and found this sweet, adorable scene: Chitose and Yae sleeping together in one bed while Yae narrates to us her thoughts. You see, Yae had been worried for a long time about the exact definition of lesbian sex: when does cuddling/petting/canoodling stops and sex begins? Are the two of them having sex or not? Is there a directive they are failing to follow? And here, in this bit of internal monologue, she finally comes to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter: they love each other, they are a couple, and that's what's really important to her and all one needs to know.

Yukiko-sensei would probably subscribe to that idea -- at least when it concerns the (practically married) relationship of her two main protagonists.

In the end, it's plain that the author prefers to keep it ambiguous -- probably because she feels it's not really that relevant to the focal point of the series, which is the love story of Kasumi and Sakurako. I was just rereading the other day some old manga by Akiko Morishima and found this sweet, adorable scene: Chitose and Yae sleeping together in one bed while Yae narrates to us her thoughts. You see, Yae had been worried for a long time about the exact definition of lesbian sex: when does cuddling/petting/canoodling stops and sex begins? Are the two of them having sex or not? Is there a directive they are failing to follow? And here, in this bit of internal monologue, she finally comes to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter: they love each other, they are a couple, and that's what's really important to her and all one needs to know.

Yukiko-sensei would probably subscribe to that idea -- at least when it concerns the (practically married) relationship of her two main protagonists.

That’s a great reference—a very similar melody in a rather different key.

This series, in particular the characterization of Kasumi, just seems to link into the anxieties and to play around with the expectations of a certain portion of the yuri audience—there’s the idea that unless mutual sexual desire is definitively shown or stated, the yuri ultimately might be taken away.

Although my reading of that “attack” scene stressed its ambiguity, I’m actually interested to see how lesbian the mangaka can make their relationship while still keeping the hardcore yuri-skeptics in a state of doubt.

Since the pair of them sleeping together, having mom-approved marriage plans, and cuddling half-naked evidently hasn’t been convincing enough . . .

It's kind of sad that BugDevil's yet again picking fights with me. One month ago, after several rude messages, Nezchan told her to stop the personal attacks and can it. She had no choice but to shut up, and everyone praised Nezchan's excellent moderating. But it looks like she's still bitter about it, because lo, she has started it again: aggressive messages, personal attacks... sigh.

Fact:

When serialization began, the author made an effort to make everything in the series fit with the pilot -- even the small details, like Kasumi's dress in her first meeting with Sakurako. In numbers, the pilot should be chapter 0 of the manga, thus as "canon" as the rest of the chapters.

It starts with Kasumi narrating the story, then the POV slowly shifts to Sakurako, and the conclusion seamlessly connects with the beginning of the first chapter in volume 1 (where the first page replicates exactly the first page of the pilot, only this time from Sakurako's narrating perspective) which then switches to a flashback.

Occam's Big Paisley Tie:

We really don't need wishful thinking for a series that is already overtly gay.

It's clearly not serious.

It is a proof of concept, nothing else.

Occam's Big Paisley Tie's Windsor Knot of Bullshit:

You still seem upset about your own misunderstanding.

The idea is even more laughable.

Are you just trying to get a rise out of me with that nonsense?

Please think before typing.

Get over it. Move on.

At least she didn't claim I'm just looking for things to get mad about.

Melissa was right. Fuck that tie.

Please, let's not keep that rolling. BugDevil hasn't posted on the subject for six hours now, and I'd really rather people not goad them into yet another big, fruitless argument.

Gay

Oho, next one is already ch. 53. I'm so looking forward to it. One of my favs in the manga.

Ah, you got my hopes up! Love this series so much, I pretty much come to check every week just to make sure I don't miss any chapters lol

Oho, next one is already ch. 53. I'm so looking forward to it. One of my favs in the manga.

This honestly hypes me up more than any preview picture lol

It's kind of sad that BugDevil's yet again picking fights with me. One month ago, after several rude messages, Nezchan told her to stop the personal attacks and can it. She had no choice but to shut up, and everyone praised Nezchan's excellent moderating. But it looks like she's still bitter about it, because lo, she has started it again: aggressive messages, personal attacks... sigh.

Look... I'm trying to be reasonable here. You obviously backhandedly attacked me back then and now as well. You brought up a previous disagreement for no other reason than to taunt me (one that was born from your own misunderstanding mind you). I simply responded with the appropiate amount of exasperation. Sucking up to the Mods does not make you look better. Anyone can plainly see what you are doing.

You claim your opinion (or rather Nene's) as facts and then accuse me of taking my preferences as facts instead. It's hypocritical and frankly annoying. If you actually want to have a civilized discussion of why the pilot is not canon, especially as a first chapter, we can have that. But I don't think you really care about that.

If anything, I have no interest in a mudslinging contest, so I apologize if my words came off as insults to you. I don't respond klindly to this kind of thing, but I will do my best to ignore it from now on. After all I only wanted to discuss the topic, not you.

@Nezchan if you'd rather this be silenced I understand. It's just that this will happen over and over again if we don't wrap this up cleanly now. Sorry.

my ultimate otp (ahem, canon) is SHOUKO x SERI
they are even above sakurako x kasumi :'^) im expecting more of their development