I mean tbf when someone's like, "I'll pay you to hang out with me"

And your response is, "I won't have sex with you! I'm definitely not into girls! NO HOMO!!"

That by itself is uh... Pretty gay. When girl-on-girl is the first thing you think of you might be a liiiittle more Sapphic then you're willing to admit.

I cannot ascertain what’s going on through Miyagi’s head

It's a lot like Adachi and Shimamura, with most of the internal stuff taken out, the characters tend to come off like borderline sociopaths.

Adachi and Shimamura suffered a lot from the later books obviously getting drawn out since they were successful.

Like the two girls in the first book or two are already pretty dang aware that they're flirting and are actively thinking through what that means. Shimamura is OK with them getting close but then when it's out in public she gets nervous and pulls back, because she knows what's going on, even if she's trying not to admit it.

Definitely feels like a similar thing happening with miyagi. Like she's always been awkward and prickly and afraid of commitment, but the rate at which she's working through it really drops after a while.

Miyagi's had thoughts a few times about how she's afraid that getting hot and heavy too much with Sendai will just lead to Sendai getting bored eventually and leaving her - which is definitely her brain starting at, "Everyone will abandon me" and then working backwards trying to find a scenario for Sendai abandoning her. So even Miyagi being able to internalize, "Sendai likes being with me now" still comes with the attached emotional baggage that she doesn't really believe it will last.

Stack on top of that Miyagi picking up on Sendai's own issues, where Sendai barely knows how to express her own preferences. She was BFFs with whatsherface back in high school and then as soon as they graduated she peaced out, never to talk to her again. When Miyagi tries to get her to explain even like her basic preferences Sendai usually goes with, "I'll like whatever you want me to like." Sendai's brain thinks that's the way to show Miyagi she likes her, while it actually just enflames Miyagi's fears that she can't truly trust Miyagi liking her.

Yeah this was one of those chapters where it was both really sweet, and also I'm realllly curious to see what happens next chapter. One would hope that Sendai's gonna stay all emotional and blurt out stuff she's been too afraid to say, but it might just skip ahead to the next day instead if the author wants to be a jerk and keep dragging out eeeevery possible bit of progress.

Also this is gonna absolutely break Miyagi's brain. It's almost like Sendai LIKES her or something, but obviously that is impossible, so why is Sendai acting like this??!???!?!?! It's a MYSTERY

^True. Maybe "Angsty girls play gay chicken" would work better. We get to read their thoughts and clearly neither girl has clinical depression, although they do have other issues they're grappling with.

The gay chicken stuff in the WN -really- works for me, I feel like it's super well done. Especially when it gets to the point where we're building up to where Sendai basically orders Miyagi to order her to kiss Miyagi for the first time. And then once it happens they both pretty much freak out while simultaneously trying to act like they're not freaking out, because it suddenly got a lot harder to pretend they're just doing all this as a joke.

Don't know if it's considered spoilers but about whether it's toxic or not It isn't. There'll be some hiccups in the first few dozen chapters but they don't abuse or bring out the worst in each other. Even Miyagi can be sweet at times despite being a tsun...tsuntsuntsuntsuntsundere. It's all consensual stuff that both know Sendai can easily walk away from if she doesn't want to go along with it.

I have a different opinion.

Miyagi can be abusive, like when she takes out her frustration on Sendai by dumping her drink and food on Sendai. She feels guilty about it and avoids Sendai afterwards, but that's the best example of the toxic undercurrent in their relationship. That's their lowest point and when Sendai comes back she demands serious changes in their relationship, but it's quite touch and go.

I would agree that their relationship is more positive than not, but there's serious caveats. It's mostly consensual but the boundaries are questionable. Sendai has the option to leave completely at any time, and Miyagi can simply not invite Sendai back, but being the angsty teenagers they are, it's a long and bumpy road for them to establish their boundaries beyond a toxic binary of "accept everything or throw away everything."

I do agree Miyagi can be sweet and actually becomes quite considerate. And as cursed as their relationship is, Sendai's relationship to family and friends is so distant that her relationship with Miyagi is genuinely healthier and more communicative than the false fronts she puts up elsewhere.

Sounds like you've more or less agreed with my description of "hiccups" early on but just elaborated on it more. Not really sure what you're calling a "different opinion".

The soda incident specifically is indeed a low point and pissed me off quite a bit. Miyagi does regret it though and they do have a conversation about how that wasn't cool from what I recall. Definitely the most major "hiccup", but conflict doesn't equal "toxicity".

Also just that the inciting feelings of that whole incident is Miyagi is totally catching feelings by then and tries to be awful to drive Sendai away, because she's horribly freaked out at the idea of Sendai eventually, inevitably rejecting her, just like everyone rejects her. It's trauma and anxiety making her make bad decisions, it's not meant to be sexy or romantic.

Yuri can be defined as anything from "a specific genre of fluffy schoolgirl romance / romantic friendship" to "anything about queer ladies", and nobody agrees on the definition, including yuri writers. Especially in Japan, western readers are more content to just wave at everything and call it yuri.

Point being, just cuz someone says it's not yuri doesn't mean it ain't gay.

Poor volleyball kouhai. I remember when I just started reading and was like hey, this basketball girl doesn't show up very often but aren't they kinda into each other? That's a way healthier ship, go date the basketball girl!

And since then she's had like, 3 chapters, there's been no further development, she's even losing to the nerdy male childhood friend at this point!

isn't there a movement to kinda divorce "women's love" works from yuri? I agree here that from this section it sounds like the author doesn't want to be bound to the genre conventions of "yuri" and just write a queer story.

Yeah, there's a big difference between Nettaigyo's "it's not yuri it's friendship" and saying "it's not yuri it's women's love."

Yuri is a pretty amorphous term, but as a genre in Japan it's generally gonna be referring to the sweet, fluffy, non-explicit schoolgirls crushing on schoolgirls style of stories. The kinda stories that might own up to it being love, but aren't ever gonna admit that hey, these two girls are gay and might date other girls in the future. Which is why Yuri is frequently not viewed as that socially disruptive for what seems to outsiders like obviously queer romance - the Japanese mainstream can interpret it as a safe exploration of female romantic feelings as practice for eventually entering adulthood and heterosexuality. A big reason why yuri titles so rarely have male characters at all - because if there were actually eligible boyfriends out there in the story universe than it would be way too queer for girls to be crushing on girls anyway.

So terms like women's love are used mostly by queer female writers who want to write stories that are explicitly queer without that layer of "j/k it's just close friendship bro" that yuri so often has. Saying it's not yuri in that context isn't a nettaigyo situation, it's basically the exact opposite, "it's not about close friendship it's about lesbians."

Yeah I like fanart of almost all the pairings but Asuka x Tohoku seems like the only one that's intended to be canon. I love how into each other they are, and I hope the stupid popularity polls don't end up making the authors go in a different direction.

Yes yes, you get to have the last word and then nobody else gets to respond to you as you pretend to be a mod.

/jerk off motion

The only thing the MC in Octave learned is that semen tastes nasty.

Since that false detail was invented by you, it literally is an example of “headcanon.”

MC says she wants to throw up after giving the dude head. Maybe spend less time writing pages on pages of your analysts and actually try comprehending the stories that you are reading.

She says, "I couldn't help but cough when he ejaculated in my throat."

Nothing whatsoever about throwing up or about "taste."

Anything further you want to say about that series should be in the proper forum.

Octave is about a girl who's spent her whole life in denial that she might be gay, and then suddenly has sex with a woman and really likes it. Which is a lot for her to deal with. So suddenly having sex with Mr. Random Dude was an act of desperation - he seems nice, we'll have sex and it'll fix me and I'll like it and I can still be straight and get married and not have to deal with being gay. It's not great that she did it but it was an act of desperation and despair.

And then she has sex that's supposed to change her life back to how she wants it, and instead her only takeaway is just a sorta dead, emotionless summary of what physically happened and that she didn't like it. And she doesn't try anymore with men.

A single sentence about coughing is a lot more than a single sentence about coughing.

So... let me get this straight. Her mother walked in on them kissing.... and she still thinks they're just friends? I'm not buying it, she knows what's going on but is playing dumb.

Bigtime asian mother vibe, really.

No I didn't see you kissing that girl - because it never happened. When are you getting a boyfriend again, he had better be a doctor. Never mention that thing that didn't happen.

Well and it's in response to the editor being like, so, have you accomplished what you wanted to accomplish? And it turns out no, there's one more thing she's been wanting to do, and that's kissing Toda. It's not a chaste kiss, that's why everyone around them is shocked. And it ends with ah! and Mm! because the two of them know each other enough to communicate that way, even if nobody else knows what they communicated.

As far as "why is it suddenly yuri??" like they've been having sexual tension the whole series, which like all of their coworkers have been picking up on forever. And they're both obviously characterized as gay in their backstories. This isnt actually a shocking twist!

Is... Is it okay for me to interpret the last 2 pages as Tanaka taking her girl friend home and introduce to her parents???

Also, I can't believe that this is the end. Here's to hoping that the author will publish a doujin to continue this.

I mean like, meeting Toda being this major stage of her life is, uhh

A little more than just a professional relationship I should say

Also like, why would she even take Toda with her there if they're supposedly still just friendly coworkers

This manga's reaching almost Tropical Fish Yearns for Snow levels of "it won't admit anything but if it's not gay it doesn't make sense"

This sounds bad but most of us agree that even if it doesn't end as yuri, it's an enjoyable series with really good moments... BUT if it turns out that any of the two or both get boyfriends after all, I would probably drop it hahaha, it would feel out of place to me after all this time and teasing.

I don't think I would mind Nozomi getting a boyfriend much... but Shino is, like, hella gay, it would just be weird lol

Even if it was Nozomi though, I would only be fine with it if it was at the ending, or if it wasn't a main point of focus in the story (which seems unlikely, given how awkward it would be to introduce someone like that to her former husband's sister...). This is a story about these two and their relationship; even if it doesn't go yuri, I wouldn't want to see it shift from that.

Yeah Nozomi always seemed like, heteronormatively bi. She obviously likes dudes and is also sometimes into women but doesn't quite realize she is. But like she could end up with another guy and be perfectly happy.

If Shino ends up with a boyfriend instead of the volleyball kouhai it would actually be insulting, though. She's just the gayest little thing.

MahiMahi transcend mere human ideas about love and flirting

They simply are

Well this chapter sure reads like a queer coming of age for the manga still not openly admitting anything. But like, everybody's telling little Toda about how boys are into boobs and sex and ogling girls, and meanwhile Toda's like.... OK but like, I'm awfully intrigued by these drawings of naked ladies and boobs, what does that mean?

Even her practicing drawing is like, a detailed female figure and then a vague outline of a guy behind her.

last edited at Aug 24, 2021 1:17AM

Does this mean she dropped out of high school?

They said that they've been together for a year now, so yeah she's definitely a dropout

Haha poor Toda

As she's goes from like Haha, oh you scamp, you're not really 23, you should have told me!

To her dawning horror that omg you're not 23, you're -17-!?!

Their relationship kinda reminds me of Nodame Cantabile. Like at some point we're gonna find out they've actually been having sex off camera for the last 3 months and just not telling anyone, including the audience.

Anyway I really liked the start of the story but the last few chapters focusing on the manga contest wasn't doing a ton for me. Her sister showing up seems like its gonna bring more focus on them as people, which im definitely more interested in

Wow I’m glad I checked this series out, I’m actually really into this! Idk if the series will end up having any romance between our two leads or not, but regardless I definitely wanna keep up with this one.

There's sure... something there. Like I don't think the manga's focus is on romance, and if it ended without ever saying anything I wouldn't be surprised... But it's also like two women who show no interest in men, living together, and having regular conversations about what they like about female erotica.

Like... it might not be canon gay, but it's sure as hell not canon straight, either.

A misunderstanding in GL with actual solid grounding? What is this?

Solid grounding, but born from the density and lack of foresight of telling your lady crush that you like a guy :P

The universal truth of useless dorks in love carries on, but I think that's why we're here. They're absurdly cute together.

It's dumb, buuut it' also feels very realistically dumb teenager decision making, instead of a plot twist made to just delay things.

It does feel like a big shift between the first few chapters and all the later stuff. Remember when the girls were flipping out over their cat island totally-not-a-date? Or when dad was totally setting his daughter up with an excuse to ask her friend out on a date to the festival?

This chapter feels like it's coming the closest to acknowledging things, sort of a mutual realization that they're into each other but the timing just isnt right. It doesn't feel very real to teenage emotions, but at least it's something.

Here's hoping that at least the mangaka gets to do a real yuri once this is over. Even if this one was frequently frustrating the good parts were sooo good

Dang this art is amazing. And also disgusting!