Forum › The Unattainable Flower and the Normal Girl discussion

C2731dea4191b182ecd8f18498562a84
joined Sep 1, 2017

Why does it always seem that in a story about a lesbian in a relationship with a straight girl, it's the straight girl with the experience, in bed.

It's more difficult for gay people to find people to have intimate relationships with because the amount of potential partners is 1/20th or less compared to a heterosexual person's potential partners. Also, many gay people don't even look for intimate relationships because they're afraid of being stigmatised for doing so, and likewise even if they meet another gay person they like, they might not know that person is gay and that person may themselves be trying to stay in the closet.

All of that being said, such stories are common because such real-life experiences are common, and authors frequently draw on their own life experiences when writing stories.

That's depressing.

Sarah of the Night
Unicorn&sabisawakamiava
joined May 12, 2020

ok then lol.

Chrome_owubdrgq2t
joined Apr 21, 2016

I'm super confused about the usage of the word "Straight" in this.

Like, I get it when stories use it for girls who aren't straight when they just haven't realized that they're gay/whatever, but this woman has literally been in a serious relationship with another woman for a full month, is explicitly willing to have sex with said woman, is not in the closet or otherwise trying to hide her interests and there's no implication what so ever that they're just "pretend dating."

And yet both characters somehow consider her a "straight" woman that only men have a chance with?
They're both clearly aware that the "straight" girl is entirely willing to date and sleep with women just from a personal desire to do so, how on earth do you even rationalize thinking of such a woman as "straight?" It doesn't make any sense!

Is this next-level useless lesbians? Is this what it means to go beyond? Useless Lesbian 2? Plus Ultra?

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not Japanese, but I think the Japanese version of comphet includes the idea that it's perfectly possible for a straight woman to date another woman "in a straight way" as long as the relationship conforms to a certain stereotype - an older partner who's beautiful and experienced and basically perfect, and a younger partner who idolizes her. Think Maria-sama ga Miteiru.

The senpai is directly invoking that myth here. She tries to play the part of the perfect onee-sama because she thinks that's the only way this "straight" girl would date her.

The kouhai also buys into it and doesn't question her sexuality because she can tell herself she's just "admiring" her perfect senpai.

Of course the joke is that the actual dynamic of their relationship is completely different.

last edited at Jun 14, 2020 7:17AM

D2ad4ba6-d1f7-4800-86c3-5a64a1f1e50f
joined Jan 15, 2017

Yes just normal

joined Jul 26, 2016

I'm super confused about the usage of the word "Straight" in this.

Like, I get it when stories use it for girls who aren't straight when they just haven't realized that they're gay/whatever, but this woman has literally been in a serious relationship with another woman for a full month, is explicitly willing to have sex with said woman, is not in the closet or otherwise trying to hide her interests and there's no implication what so ever that they're just "pretend dating."

And yet both characters somehow consider her a "straight" woman that only men have a chance with?
They're both clearly aware that the "straight" girl is entirely willing to date and sleep with women just from a personal desire to do so, how on earth do you even rationalize thinking of such a woman as "straight?" It doesn't make any sense!

Is this next-level useless lesbians? Is this what it means to go beyond? Useless Lesbian 2? Plus Ultra?

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not Japanese, but I think the Japanese version of comphet includes the idea that it's perfectly possible for a straight woman to date another woman "in a straight way" as long as the relationship conforms to a certain stereotype - an older partner who's beautiful and experienced and basically perfect, and a younger partner who idolizes her. Think Maria-sama ga Miteiru.

The senpai is directly invoking that myth here. She tries to play the part of the perfect onee-sama because she thinks that's the only way this "straight" girl would date her.

The kouhai also buys into it and doesn't question her sexuality because she can tell herself she's just "admiring" her perfect senpai.

Sounds vaguely like the olden-day Greek erastes-eromenos thing really, or a sort of carryover from various analogous customs in Japanese history...

Of course the joke is that the actual dynamic of their relationship is completely different.

Heh. Picked up a kitten, it turned out to be a tiger cub.

Mint
joined Jun 5, 2015

Well class S and dating and experimenting with other girls in high school etc. being k and even encouraged, but once you graduate you're supposed to "grow out of it" and grow up to become a proper straight adult is (or at least was) a thing in Japan. Dating other women is somehow supposed to give you experience before real world (aka dating men), so I suppose that's where their mind-set comes from.

Avatar_a24d1ef02fc0_128
joined May 24, 2015

Ooh, Useless Lesbian with "Experienced" facade and Proactive Bisexual with "inexperienced" mindset. This'll be good

Img_20190130_105529
joined Jan 29, 2019

the think of the has sex with men before make me disappointed to this...

_20180228_203946
joined Jan 24, 2018

This ticked boxes I never knew existed.... And its only chapter 1?! Amazing!

last edited at Jun 14, 2020 11:29AM

847
joined May 28, 2011
herenowforever
joined Feb 11, 2018

the think of the has sex with men before make me disappointed to this...

I see what you did there, Officer Gold Star.

joined Jul 23, 2017

Wait so is she still a virgin or not

Scarlet%20felini
joined Mar 28, 2012

Wait so is she still a virgin or not

Very not.

joined Jan 15, 2016

OMG this is too cute <3 <3 <3 I can't. Also, good luck senpai , you are going to be the kouhai in bed ;)

Kikaluna Uploader
Ef2_zi-u4ae1h8g
Noca Scans
joined Nov 20, 2017

small fix on pg 10

https://mangadex.org/chapter/924778/10

Fixed here as well.

joined Aug 21, 2017

Great bait and switch of the classic senpai-kouhai dynamic

C2731dea4191b182ecd8f18498562a84
joined Sep 1, 2017

I'm super confused about the usage of the word "Straight" in this.

Like, I get it when stories use it for girls who aren't straight when they just haven't realized that they're gay/whatever, but this woman has literally been in a serious relationship with another woman for a full month, is explicitly willing to have sex with said woman, is not in the closet or otherwise trying to hide her interests and there's no implication what so ever that they're just "pretend dating."

And yet both characters somehow consider her a "straight" woman that only men have a chance with?
They're both clearly aware that the "straight" girl is entirely willing to date and sleep with women just from a personal desire to do so, how on earth do you even rationalize thinking of such a woman as "straight?" It doesn't make any sense!

Is this next-level useless lesbians? Is this what it means to go beyond? Useless Lesbian 2? Plus Ultra?

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not Japanese, but I think the Japanese version of comphet includes the idea that it's perfectly possible for a straight woman to date another woman "in a straight way" as long as the relationship conforms to a certain stereotype - an older partner who's beautiful and experienced and basically perfect, and a younger partner who idolizes her. Think Maria-sama ga Miteiru.

The senpai is directly invoking that myth here. She tries to play the part of the perfect onee-sama because she thinks that's the only way this "straight" girl would date her.

The kouhai also buys into it and doesn't question her sexuality because she can tell herself she's just "admiring" her perfect senpai.

Of course the joke is that the actual dynamic of their relationship is completely different.

That sounds suspiciously like school girl love games, that I've been told in no uncertain terms modern yuri has gotten away from using as a plot device.

last edited at Jun 14, 2020 4:58PM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I'm super confused about the usage of the word "Straight" in this.

Like, I get it when stories use it for girls who aren't straight when they just haven't realized that they're gay/whatever, but this woman has literally been in a serious relationship with another woman for a full month, is explicitly willing to have sex with said woman, is not in the closet or otherwise trying to hide her interests and there's no implication what so ever that they're just "pretend dating."

And yet both characters somehow consider her a "straight" woman that only men have a chance with?
They're both clearly aware that the "straight" girl is entirely willing to date and sleep with women just from a personal desire to do so, how on earth do you even rationalize thinking of such a woman as "straight?" It doesn't make any sense!

Is this next-level useless lesbians? Is this what it means to go beyond? Useless Lesbian 2? Plus Ultra?

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not Japanese, but I think the Japanese version of comphet includes the idea that it's perfectly possible for a straight woman to date another woman "in a straight way" as long as the relationship conforms to a certain stereotype - an older partner who's beautiful and experienced and basically perfect, and a younger partner who idolizes her. Think Maria-sama ga Miteiru.

The senpai is directly invoking that myth here. She tries to play the part of the perfect onee-sama because she thinks that's the only way this "straight" girl would date her.

The kouhai also buys into it and doesn't question her sexuality because she can tell herself she's just "admiring" her perfect senpai.

Of course the joke is that the actual dynamic of their relationship is completely different.

That sounds suspiciously like school girl love games, that I've been told in no uncertain terms modern yuri has gotten away from using as a plot device.

Except for the having sweaty sex part, of course—which I think pretty definitively sets it apart from “school girl love games.”

joined Jan 8, 2014

Lolz, the ridiculous gap situation, plus its hot ^_^ cant wait to read more ^_^

Book%20and%20cloakhbq1
joined Aug 1, 2011

Why does it always seem that in a story about a lesbian in a relationship with a straight girl, it's the straight girl with the experience, in bed.

It's more difficult for gay people to find people to have intimate relationships with because the amount of potential partners is 1/20th or less compared to a heterosexual person's potential partners. Also, many gay people don't even look for intimate relationships because they're afraid of being stigmatised for doing so, and likewise even if they meet another gay person they like, they might not know that person is gay and that person may themselves be trying to stay in the closet.

All of that being said, such stories are common because such real-life experiences are common, and authors frequently draw on their own life experiences when writing stories.

I wonder if part of it might also be that making the nominally straight partner the sexually experienced and proactive one leads to a safer power dynamic. Specifically, there's the old trope of experienced lesbians preying on impressionable, young, straight girls and somehow tricking them into being lesbians. However, if the "straight" partner is leading the way in the bedroom, and is otherwise both more assertive and proactive, then clearly they weren't tricked into it and their newly discovered sexuality can't be blamed a predatory partner.

Of course, the underlying premise behind that trope is complete nonsense, but bigots are known for being loud and obnoxious, rather than rational, and I could see some artist or publications wanting to stay far away from anything they could latch onto or any of the tropes they pushed.

That said, it might also have a more legitimate place in helping to balance out other in balances that you tend to see in these sorts of situations. A good example of this would be Chatting at the Amber Teahouse, where one partner is much younger than the other and, more importantly, is both a high school student and employee of the older partner who runs her own business. Normally, that level of imbalance would be more than a little skeevy, however, since Sarasa typically acts more mature and takes a more dominant role in the relationship and business she artificially comes of as being closer to an equal to Seriho and we get to experience them both growing and maturing.

Mahiru
joined Aug 28, 2016

Yeah, when your asking "why won't she have sex with me?" You've sailed clear past Class-S conventions. The use of "straight" here is so bizarre. Maybe it's a translation thing where there's only terms for "lesbian" and for "everyone else"? It wouldn't be surprising if the terminology centered men and how available women are to them.

joined Jul 26, 2016

Yeah, when your asking "why won't she have sex with me?" You've sailed clear past Class-S conventions. The use of "straight" here is so bizarre. Maybe it's a translation thing where there's only terms for "lesbian" and for "everyone else"? It wouldn't be surprising if the terminology centered men and how available women are to them.

Just sayin' but I'm tolerably certain both of them currently have more important matters to think about than fine nuances of terminology...

last edited at Jun 14, 2020 10:33PM

afkeroge Uploader
Nanayuu
Noca Scans
joined May 29, 2015

Yeah, when your asking "why won't she have sex with me?" You've sailed clear past Class-S conventions. The use of "straight" here is so bizarre. Maybe it's a translation thing where there's only terms for "lesbian" and for "everyone else"? It wouldn't be surprising if the terminology centered men and how available women are to them.

The original Japanese term was "nonke onna" which literally means "straight woman." "Nonke" is a term coined by the gay community in Japan to refer to people who are "not available" to them. It comes from the French word for "no" (non) and the Japanese word for "feeling" (ki). People need to stop blaming straight men for everything. It's not healthy nor productive.

last edited at Jun 14, 2020 11:08PM

afkeroge Uploader
Nanayuu
Noca Scans
joined May 29, 2015

Yeah, when your asking "why won't she have sex with me?" You've sailed clear past Class-S conventions. The use of "straight" here is so bizarre. Maybe it's a translation thing where there's only terms for "lesbian" and for "everyone else"? It wouldn't be surprising if the terminology centered men and how available women are to them.

The original Japanese term was "nonke onna" which literally means "straight woman." "Nonke" is a term coined by the gay community in Japan to refer to people who are "not available" to them. It comes from the French word for "no" (non) and the Japanese word for "feeling" (ki). People need to stop blaming straight men for everything. It's not healthy nor productive.

that's not what nonke means.. exactly. Its a wasei-eigo term, mean "non-gay" but because of the rules of Japanese phonotactics the "g" becomes a "k". Non-gay... means exactly what it sounds like, and Idk if that would apply to bi people in a japanese context.

No, that's not where it came from. What are you even saying? Japanese has no such phonetic "rules." The Japanese word for human, "ningen" disproves your assertion easily. Here's a definition from an actual Japanese source:
https://meaning.jp/posts/3968

Also, the Japanese already have a word for bisexual people - it's "bai," coming from the English word "bisexual," obviously. It has been in use in Japan as early as the late 90's to the early 2000's at the very least.

last edited at Jun 15, 2020 1:55AM

Images__01
joined Nov 3, 2019

I'm just gonna say this straight out - I loved this! Not only was this amazing... It was amazingly amazing. Hoping for many more chapters to come ~ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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