I think Taiyaki should see these opinions. Maybe you two could write them on her twitter?

I am not on Twitter nor do I ever intend to be, but anyone is welcome to share my posts freely.

I write here as a "fan," but I do analyze comics/manga/visual storytelling as part of my profession, and I certainly believe that Taiyaki's work here has significant positive qualities that could well be lost or minimized by "professionalizing" this particular story.

The closest analogy would be Western underground/alternative comix, where the idiosyncrasies of the author's hand, even if those are perceived as being "amateurish," are part of a work's appeal.

I would never oppose an artist who wants to improve their skills for any reason, including in order to make a living with their art, but any notion that the author's skills are not "good enough" is in my opinion mistaken.

last edited at Jul 17, 2020 12:07PM

But no publisher wants to take Taiyaki's work without radically changing the story (incest is not allowed anywhere, only in R18 magazines, but she doesn't know if the story is actually an R18).

Um... but there are tons of incestuous yuri manga in the Dynasty archive... I mean, seriously, just check the "Incest" tag and you'll find them by the cartload... so... where are they published?

In R18 magazines? Or only as self printed doujinshi?

Yeah I'm also scared that going back and editing or redrawing the whole thing will just burn out her passion for it. Plus I really really want to know what's going to happen.

And I love the story and character she has weaved so far, even if it's complex and hard to resolve or whatever. Even though I feel like it's really not... It's just fucking brilliant plain and simple. I'm like addicted to her style and this story and her tasteful, sexy handling of a taboo.

last edited at Aug 11, 2020 12:50AM

I did end up sending Taiyaki a message with some of the sentiments here, namely that while there were worries about the particularities of her work being lost and the momentum going into the next volume, above all it was felt that (while it might be expected from the fan perspective) her existing technical skill is excellent, her passion makes it stand out, and we support her and her hard work. So if you're anxious about something, know that at least she probably has it in mind. I don't know how much she'd want me to share, so the summary is she really appreciates all the overseas fans and wishes it was easier to communicate, and she may be doing something in the future that'd be helpful in that respect.

Now that some of the redraw work is actually up, I think I can understand better the approach she's taking than when I read the first announcement. It's behind a (very small! so go support her on Fanbox!) paywall, but the first chapters were arguably the ones that needed the most radical work, and she's putting a lot of care and thought into each change. It's clearly still a ton of work, but it appears as if she wants to go much further with the story and with that in mind it makes more sense to do it now. The Vol 9 extras should be pretty enlightening.

last edited at Aug 11, 2020 3:00AM

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/1_x_ch16_4#9

Oh man. That's awesome!

Oh man its going to be a long wait if the author its going to redraw all 9 volumes, i just hope the hype and build up of the story isnt lost in all that time.

Inui Ayu cross over

Ah I love inui ayu. Her art is so pretty. It really does kind of change things and make the original so less detailed but then again it was only one page.

Damn.. while I wish them well and hope it turns out great- it sucks because it means like YEARS before we get a continuation. Also- Imo, second guessing and editing your work often makes it worse even if you have more skills now.
And making it snappier and less detailed and faster moving etc like edits often do is ALSO almost always worse I think.

I think you should just improve your work as you go and then bring what you learn to your NEXT work..

I can easily see them loosing interest half way through too.. I've lost count of how many fan fics etc i've seen 'start over'
only to stop after 1 or 2 chapters.

It also doesn't seem very considerate to your audience, to make them all wait so long.. couldnt they have done this re-edit after finishing part 2 as well?

And, what do they mean by part 2 is a huge change in theme? Is it somehow not about these 2 any more? It might as well be a new story if its gonna radically change or jump to new protags or whatever?

And if its carrying on as is with these 2, and what looks like would come next, I dont see how that is a major change in theme? The THEME is surely a girls incestous feelings for her mom. Change that and you loose everything that makes this story imo.

last edited at Aug 15, 2020 5:30PM

This is so wrong, but it's got me hooked. It's sucking me in. Send help.

Will the second half be just called "3"?

Will the second half be just called "3"?

Lol

A lot of artists get drawn into the trap of wanting to "correct" or redo their previous works, and what this sounds like to me is that it will be months if not years before the story is actually continued in favor of Taiyaki's personal crusade to revise their own history; a massive project that no one but themselves will really be invested in, and even that may fade when the thanklessness and lack of novelty in such an undertaking sets firmly in.

All just my opinion of course. It may well be that I'm underestimating Taiyaki, and I certainly wish them the best, but I honestly feel this is a mistake. It's better to keep moving forward than turn back and try to retread the past.

On one hand it's nice to see an author have so much love and dedication to their story, but on the other hand it just seems so inconsiderate and irresponsible? to do that after such a massive cliffhanger. Why you wouldn't do that after you've finished your story or at least capitalized on the momentum you've built up so far is beyond me.

Well, I don't want to seem like I'm complaining too much. I wish the author the best and I'll surely still be following this story because I'm a sucker.

last edited at Aug 16, 2020 2:28AM

@Cryssoberyl Yup- more or less what I think too- I hope it goes well and fast- OR they drop the idea and pick the story back up quickly! There is always time to waste redoing it after its all finished if they want to try again.

Or why not bring the 'new better way of doing it' directly to the 2nd half so all the readers are not waiting years? And go back and redo part 1 after?

All the time spent redoing it could be used to do ANOTHER entire story- equally bringing their new skills and learning to play. And I have very rarely seen this lead to good results..

last edited at Aug 15, 2020 5:56PM

Not that she needs to redo the old issues, but she probably sees it as the practice she needs to improve her future works. Also creative types have a habit of thinking that what they made is never good enough. I've heard that Earnest Hemingway's editor had to wrestle manuscripts from his hands while he insisted it needed another revision.

Damn.. while I wish them well and hope it turns out great- it sucks because it means like YEARS before we get a continuation. Also- Imo, second guessing and editing your work often makes it worse even if you have more skills now.
And making it snappier and less detailed and faster moving etc like edits often do is ALSO almost always worse I think.

I think you should just improve your work as you go and then bring what you learn to your NEXT work..

I can easily see them loosing interest half way through too.. I've lost count of how many fan fics etc i've seen 'start over'
only to stop after 1 or 2 chapters.

It also doesn't seem very considerate to your audience, to make them all wait so long.. couldnt they have done this re-edit after finishing part 2 as well?

Personally I'm ambivalent, so I think the only way to know is to see how it goes.

I've seen fanfiction where the author did complete a rewrite and it was significantly better. One problem with a large long lived work like this is that although to us it seems like early chapters are a done deal, for new readers they are the first impression. If as an author you feel your work has evolved that can weigh on you - with a "bad" ( or just mismatched) introduction it can feel like new work you do is "hidden" behind it.
Not to mention the commercial pov - the first volume is the "sales pitch" for the rest, another reason she may want to improve it (not just mercenary: in the interests of honest marketing, make it more consistent with her present style).

It is also one of the issues between a serialised work like this and a novel - with a novel the author will revise the completed work to fix inconsistencies in story and tone (usually multiple passes), and that sort of editing/rewriting can really bring a story together. Taiyaki now has a much better feel for the characters and the story as a whole, it is understandable that she has had some new thoughts about how best to introduce it.

As for the change in theme, I'm guessing, but up until now the story has been in a sense "teasing", but now we have a mutual declaration it seems like Ayako and Asuka will be moving towards a full relationship, and even sex - that presents new challenges in storytelling. Even from my small dabbling in fanfiction I've found that light pre-relationship stuff is a lot easier to write than trying to do justice to an deep authentic relationship (realistically addressing Ayako's guilt will be quite a challenge).
(Ironically I recently wrote a Ayako/Asuka first time as sex-scene practice, so far unpublished... feels like it needs a rewrite, lol).

A recompilation ay? I'm looking forward to it, if Tayaki can make an improvement on an already great story I'm keen to see whats in store

Completely redoing the 1st half before finishing the story? I'm out. It's one thing to ask for patience. It's quite another to leave the story on a cliffhanger and then just decide to "redo" the entire thing from the beginning.

It's like if Disney produced and then decided to not release Avengers: End Game and instead chose to re-film all the previous movies. That would have gone over like a lead balloon and would have killed the franchise. Which is exactly what this is going to do for me. It's really a slap in the face to the readers who have stuck by for so long to not get a conclusion to the story.

It's fine to want to maybe redraw and improve earlier chapters. But that's after the story has finished, not right in the fucking middle of it. It's a shame, but if this is how it's going to be, this will be the last time I will read any work from this author. I can't support this decision in any way, shape, or form.

I agree with the sentiment that putting the series into hiatus so she can go back and improve what she's already published is a huge mistake. The slow and irregular update schedule already had us restless, trying to pull a Murata will kill all the momentum she's build upon now and alienate a considerable amount of her readers. That said, it is commendable that she has a genuine interest in improving her old work but that shouldn't come at the expense of putting the continuation on hold.

It's really a slap in the face to the readers who have stuck by for so long to not get a conclusion to the story.

That argument had slightly more merit if 99% of her readers on her just read the entire thing for free. She's got no obligation to anyone here whatsoever.

I feel worries are justified but ultimately we don't know what's going on. It might be that she just got completely stuck on the 2nd half because she's not set up things the way she wanted to, and that the only way out of that blockade to her right now is fixing this issue. It happens. This wasn't done with some professional editing support (and even with it how many writers get perpetually stuck?), and sometimes you just need a new iteration to go forward.

So, yeah, I do think it's fair to worry from a reader's perspective and obviously nobody ever wants to wait for New Stuff(tm) but when it turns into some weird sense of entitlement that's going too far.

last edited at Aug 16, 2020 3:47AM

It's really a slap in the face to the readers who have stuck by for so long to not get a conclusion to the story.

That argument had slightly more merit if 99% of her readers on her just read the entire thing for free. She's got no obligation to anyone here whatsoever.

I feel worries are justified but ultimately we don't know what's going on. It might be that she just got completely stuck on the 2nd half because she's not set up things the way she wanted to, and that the only way out of that blockade to her right now is fixing this issue. It happens. This wasn't done with some professional editing support (and even with it how many writers get perpetually stuck?), and sometimes you just need a new iteration to go forward.

So, yeah, I do think it's fair to worry from a reader's perspective and obviously nobody ever wants to wait for New Stuff(tm) but when it turns into some weird sense of entitlement that's going too far.

as much as i hate the thought of having to wait for something new, i kinda agree. i didn't even know the author was self publishing til now, which is amazing in and of itself, and here we are getting to read it for free. so while we are emotionally invested (this is the first mother x daughter manga i read that's really got me hooked like this. all the others--like 2 lol--i was just bleaugh) we don't really have a right to complain since we are not financially invested ;) but then again what about the people who have been buying it? kind of a situation that has no real right or wrong answer.

@Pyoro I dont really agree that makes any difference. When you pay for a work of fiction, you do so at your own risk- you have presumably done research or know you want a product first, most of the time- but you get whatever the author/artist made with no guarantees you will find it worth your money. The author doesn't 'owe' you more because you bought it. You only deserve the production quality to be of a minimum.

BUT- whether a work is bought or free- it is not ONLY the authors belonging any more once they put it out there.
Sure, it is in a literal sense. They can stop working on it half way through and bin it all if they want- but they are NOT just writing it for themselves- they could leave it all in a cupboard if they dont WANT to share it.

Once they put it out into the world to share with others, they form a kind of contract with the readers- like it or not.
The readers expend time and energy in it- they get emotionally attached and vested in the story and characters.

Delaying it hugely WILL cause emotional pain and upset / anger to some readers. It is not being mindful of them - or even considering them in my opinion- because this edit could have easily been done AFTER part 2 was finished.

I support their right to do this edit still as the author- in that it is their work and they need creative freedom to do whatever they feel they need to. BUT- I feel it is the WRONG move- not just for the readers, but also the author and whatever reasons they think they need to do it for will probably turn out false and for the worse unfortunatley.

I'd say they have no better than a 1 in 4 chance of this working out :( I'm worried It will either be abandoned entirely or they will drop the rewrite and go back to the story- or it will just turn out to make the story worse.

They should have finished it and left it as is and used all this time and effort on the NEXT work- which can be better for all they learned writing this one.

If this does go ahead long term then I hope for the best- and that I will be proved wrong- I'm just going on past experiences.

last edited at Aug 16, 2020 8:05AM

Delaying it hugely WILL cause emotional pain and upset / anger to some readers. It is not being mindful of them - or even considering them in my opinion- because this edit could have easily been done AFTER part 2 was finished.

As somebody who really wants to see this continue and will miss it a great deal if the revised version is delayed for an extended period, I say: so what?

Such readers, me included, will just need to get over ourselves.

This is an artist (in the widest sense of the word) who is committed to improving her craft and to creating a work of art that lives up to her own standards. We have been privileged to watch her first attempts at rendering her vision, most of us doing so for free. That's as "mindful" of the readers as the artist needs to be (more so, in fact).

I dont really agree that makes any difference

... I actually agree with you on that it doesn't make any difference, but I didn't want to get sidetrack but that debate as it's not applicable here anyway ;)

Anyway, I disagree with everything else. Nobody owns an artist. It's your right to disagree with them. It's your right to stop reading them. It's your right to never read anything by them again.

But you don't have any right to them finishing their work in the way you want them to. That's their decision and theirs alone.