^No, you dont have a 'right' to anything- but they DO have a duty to have some consideration for the feelings of their audience, because it was the author that got them invested by their action of publishing their content. A creator who consistantly ignores their audience or disgruntles them will soon have no audience.

Also, the vast majority of creators, no matter how much they like or not their own work- will largely judge its worth and be happy based in large part on the feedback they get from others.

As I expressed it's still their call ofcourse- but surely the author doesnt WANT all their readers to naff off- otherwise why bother have social media accounts and makes posts etc.

last edited at Aug 16, 2020 10:46AM

^No, you dont have a 'right' to anything- but they DO have a duty to have some consideration for the feelings of their audience, because it was the author that got them invested by their action of publishing their content.

This sounds Hell of a lot like merely giving the exact same sentiment a new wrapping, just sayin'...

^How so? there is a difference between demanding you get something like you are owed it, and just expecting your feelings to me taken into consideration. If they do so and go ahead with something they know will be unpopular anyway then thats fine- as long as they dont complain about the inevitable complaints some will give or a loss of readers etc.

last edited at Aug 16, 2020 10:41AM

^How so? there is a difference between demanding you get something like you are owed it, and just expecting your feelings to me taken into consideration.

A terribly academic one when the end result is the same.

Sorry to interrupt this serious discussion but Taiyaki just posted on twitter which were already uploaded to mangadex. Can't wait to see the images here. Taiyaki does NOT hold back. I fully support her decision and more power to her and her mother x daughter fantasies.

I like that Taiyaki is going to take her time on the 2nd part of 1 x1/2. The worst thing a storyteller can do is it just rush the plot leaving it filled with enormous plot holes.

I just hope her artwork quality doesn't go back down again cause when you don't practice you ending up getting rusty, at least for me anyways. I'm lookin forward to the re-mastered parts of the first half of 1 x 1/2.

My heart immediately sank when I read AXED in one of Asuka's speech bubbles. It got me for a few sec there. lol Thank goodness this is a self published doujin and not under the control of a hard nosed Manager.

last edited at Aug 16, 2020 10:51AM

^They are not taking a break- they are gonna redraw everything published up to now.

By time they finish in a few years, their art will be better I'd assume not worse.

last edited at Aug 16, 2020 10:56AM

Sorry to interrupt this serious discussion but Taiyaki just posted on twitter which were already uploaded to mangadex. Can't wait to see the images here. Taiyaki does NOT hold back. I fully support her decision and more power to her and her mother x daughter fantasies.

I love her work too and hope they stick with it - and I also hope they dont make major changes to make it more publishable- for example make her an adopted daughter or some kind of cop-out.

^They are not taking a break- they are gonna redraw everything published up to now.

By time they finish in a few years, their art will be better I'd assume not worse.

oh damn, now I'm worried again.

shit @_@

^How so? there is a difference between demanding you get something like you are owed it, and just expecting your feelings to me taken into consideration.

Have to agree that this is a distinction without a difference--you seem to think that you are "owed" having your feelings taken into account.

No author would do this without to some extent considering the effect it might have on the current audience. If our feelings are hurt because the author appears to value future (potentially paying) readers over current (non-paying) readers, well, as I said, we just need to get over ourselves.

I mean, In her defense, it isn’t like she’s re-drawing everything just to make it look better. She said when she originally drew the story, there were things she had to skip over and leave out for some reasons (I think it was time constraints, even though this is a doujin, she would probably want to bring new chapters to conventions oand stuff), and she wanted to go back and add in the extra plot that she originally had left out. The majority of us on here dont pay a DIME to read her stuff, so it really takes away our right to complain. I’m sure she’s thinking about this in the long run: she’d probably rather have new readers read a better work than she gave us (she mentioned that her first few chapters were only written with a pen) and once she completes this work (which I really think she will, she made the decision to redraw because she said she would never be satisfied if she didn’t tell the story to the fullest) readers that pick up her work once it is complete will appreciate it much more, as maybe there will be less holes and better art. It isn’t like she’s even leaving current readers hanging- she appears to have been posting redrawn stuff on her pixiv account, so people who financially support her ARE getting manga from her, whether it’s new plot, or reimagined pages.

In my mind, there is absolutely nothing wrong with what she is doing. She has said that she’s tried to get her work published in a magazine, but has been turned down due to the nature of the content. That is a valid reason to turn away a work, but she may be trying to redraw in order to make her work good enough to be an exception in those magazines. Us readers, especially readers that don’t financially support the author, have no right to be critical of a choice we have not even seen the results of yet. All it may end up doing is turn yourself and others away from a story that is obviously good enough to merit this much of an outrage.

last edited at Aug 16, 2020 11:50AM

In my limited experience, reboot perfectionism is unlikely to ever finish. The two most prominent examples are Tolkien on his Silmarillion material (never finished or published before he died), and the artist who did Heliothaumic - he rebooted his thing twice before burning out for the third time.

Yes, she's been really transparent about the work she's been doing on the redraw (she's moving very quickly on the drafts) and writing a lot about the changes that were made. I think maybe there's a desire to prove that the work is technically good enough to be published, but I don't think she has any illusions that that would happen. When she brought it in to publishers in February, it seems like it was already well received, but the blanket prohibition on the theme made it impossible. I think it's closer to "if I'm going to stay self-published, and if I'm going to continue the story from here, I'm going to make the foundation of the work consistent in quality before building on it further", and while you can argue whether or not that could be demotivating/is too much work, make it feel too polished, etc, it seems like a pretty well-reasoned decision to me.

I'm honestly kind of curious - would a Vol 10 that just wraps everything up neatly have been preferable? I guess that's kind of a false choice, but I always got the impression that that was Taiyaki's original plan before this, and I was worried that there really wasn't enough space to give any satisfying conclusion. When she announced the redraw, she explained how it's not just a "yuri work", but even if that was all it was, I'm always a little disappointed when series end without really exploring the new relationship and its dynamic, and I can't imagine it would do much justice to this story.

last edited at Aug 16, 2020 12:48PM

In my limited experience, reboot perfectionism is unlikely to ever finish. The two most prominent examples are Tolkien on his Silmarillion material (never finished or published before he died), and the artist who did Heliothaumic - he rebooted his thing twice before burning out for the third time.

I only get the author's statements second-hand here, but I don't get the impression that some kind of paralyzing perfectionism or authorial second-guessing is what's going on with this.

In fact, it strikes me rather the opposite--that as time has gone on and what she's done has been well-received, the author has become more committed to the project and more excited about the possibilities of her own growing skillset.

Don't get me wrong--I personally don't see the necessity of upgrading the earlier parts, and I would much prefer to see it continue on as it is to the finish. On the other hand, I have to respect an artist who wants to improve her craft (for whatever reason) and who wants to put out the best work she can do.

Pixivy update

kissy, kissy

Tfw guest artwork looks way better

I wish Taiyaki-sensei the best of luck on her rest and redo. As others have mentioned, I have seen this happen many times in fan fiction where the redo dies in infancy. But I would like to put my trust in her and patiently await what comes. Though disabled and on a small fixed income, I hope to participate in funding assistance when she starts up again.
Does anyone know if she reads or takes email/messages from fans in english? It is almost impossible for me to find places to send fan supporting messages to many mangakas I am fans of as I don't know the Japanese language, but always buy the English versions when they are for sale here in the U.S. Twitter and most fan sites are always in Japanese and though I translate the webpage into English, I have tried to use Google and Microsoft translation programs to send messages but have no way to know if they are even read and some have told me that those are junk apps, yet have no other suggestions. I would like some of the self-published mangakas to know that there are English only speakers that always try to support them and do enjoy their work.
I personally have no problem with incest in Manga above certain age limits and not rape (if it is not to my taste I just don't read it) nor do I irl as long as all parties can and do legally consent (irl you cannot consent if you are not of legal age within the laws of that country or reasonableness, i.e. NOT reasonable are some country laws allowing 13 year olds to marry is what I'm getting at). Those of you who decry the Japanese culture for producing such forms of works for many years, ought to take a close look at the fact that they have historically had an extremely low sex crime rate per capita than most developed nations. My country of the U.S. tries to flaunt it's religious purity crap and we have huge amounts of sex crimes in this country. Not saying this should be all that shapes one's opinion, just check out some stats on things sometimes and you might be shocked. It amazes me how righteous some people act around these types of works, but say nothing about the children who die in Africa of starvation every 4 or 5 minutes, I believe.
Anyway, if Taiyaki-sensei were to read this I would wish her to know I enjoy her work very much, her art is good and the storyline is compelling and interesting to read, bringing different emotions at different times. Thank you ma'am.
Jay

"the fact that they have historically had an extremely low sex crime rate per capita than most developed nations"

Well, maybe. Particularly for sex crimes, low rates may reflect low rates of reporting. If reporting a rape means you get publicly humiliated and the rapist probably gets off, you're likely to not report the rape.

Also Japan is infamous for groping on subway trains, to the point that they have special women-only train cars during peak hours.

The US has crime victimization surveys ("Asking as a harmless researcher, have you ever experienced X?") which acts as a cross-check on police reports.

'Round here both the police and assorted support organisations officially estimate they only ever hear of a fraction of sex-crime cases, and we're talking about a country that consistently rates among the best in the world in both gender-equality issues and popular trust in the authorities.

Tolerably sure Japan sorta kinda really fails at least one of the latter, to speak nothing of all the fun and games characteristic of "shame cultures" where keeping up appearances tends to be paramount and things are majorly prone to getting swept under rugs to avoid looking bad.

Given all the issues with differences reporting, definitions, societal and official attitudes etc. about the only crime statistics that can be internationally compared even vaguely reliably are outright homicides as even the shitty excuses of cops in chronically mismanaged third-world shitholes tend to at least record those somewhat consistently.

last edited at Aug 24, 2020 4:13AM

"It's hard to hide bodies", and even if you do that leaves a disappearance.

Also Japan is infamous for groping on subway trains, to the point that they have special women-only train cars during peak hours.

Yeah, but to be fair, groping and sexual harassment in public transportation is a common thing in the West too, it just goes unreported ... so one might say that's the (assumed) inverse to reported other sex crimes here.

Anyway, I don't think sexual violence should have anything to do with "is incest fiction fine" debates; clearly these are separate issues.

Yeah, but to be fair, groping and sexual harassment in public transportation is a common thing in the West too, it just goes unreported ... so one might say that's the (assumed) inverse to reported other sex crimes here.

AFAIK it's not epidemic to a degree that would require A) women-only cars B) guarded women-only cars as a placeholder remedy while societal attitudes shift in their usual glacial pace. Certainly the whole idea would strike pretty much anyone from 'round my neck of the woods as surreal and alien - here the "geography of fear" (to directly translate the title of a study on the subject) according to which women consciously or not plan their movements to minimise risk avoids isolation and favors crowds due to the strong deterrence effect of bystanders.

It really says something that dynamic apparently doesn't work in Asian public transport (I've read some pretty shocking accounts from India and p sure it's no small issue in mainland Far East either) - that is to say, women cannot reliably count on even the social and psychological pressure exerted by a disapproving audience there.

AFAIK it's not epidemic to a degree that would require A) women-only cars B) guarded women-only cars as a placeholder remedy while societal attitudes shift in their usual glacial pace.

I'm not sure. Here (Germany), they already keep working at this issue - so far it's mostly cameras, better lightning, schooling of personell, re-doing access points, women-only parking close to exits, and so on. Stuff you don't 'really' notice. Japan chose women-only cars (usually only during rush hour) and an awareness campaign to combat this.

But I've seen studies that make claims like 60% of women being harassed in public transport. I've seen similar figures for Japan. But it's something they focused on, so it gets reported, and is in the news, and it's (sort of) visible with the women-only cars. But looking at actually persecuted cases:
"the number of reported indecent assault in subway carriages in Japan between 2005 and 2014 ranges from 283 to 497 cases each year"
... that's nothing. That's not even 0.0001% of passengers every year (Tokyo alone has 3.3 billion passengers per year in their subways...). And I suspect that's again similar to the West.

But, anyway, this is all off topic; sorry about that ^^;

Tfw guest artwork looks way better

No, it just looks like a totally different art style. I much prefer Taiyaki’s art on her own story to that stuff. It’s fine, but it’s not this story.

last edited at Aug 24, 2020 7:28AM

i still read this even though i don't know where this is headed especially with their very complicated relationship