Re-editing it had been in her plans for a long time, and I think everyone assumed at least the first chapters would get redone somehow when that happened. I didn't expect her to redraw the entire thing.

My takeaway was that she received professional criticism that while it's a very engaging work, it's very convoluted at times. The kind of story she's trying to do is difficult to accomplish (lots of character threads simultaneously), and she's had the attitude that all the characters needed to be fleshed out as if they were main characters. Additionally, she came to recognize that it's "yuri manga" in a secondary way - she wants to write about human drama, the differences of romantic vs. maternal love, and so on, and was told that part wasn't coming through.

Since she feels uniquely blessed to have a readership that enjoys and appreciates the work despite the unevenness, she's trying to balance the two perspectives, and this is the solution that she came up with. It does appear it's going to be a significant rework and will focus more tightly on Ayako and Asuka, so some scenes will change but the essence will still be there.

There are some legitimate narrative criticisms: the Miyuki arc drags on quite a bit, characters like Jun/Rui (Akira less so) appear and then fade into the background once they prompt a realisation. There's a lot of jumping back and forth that's hard to follow, so it would benefit from the side-chapters being folded in. But I'm a little worried she's falling into the perfectionist-artist trap of realizing the end is in sight and suddenly being much harder on herself about the work as a whole than is healthy.

I think it's wonderful that she's receiving criticism at a professional level and that's the way to improve as a professional, but I feel that Taiyaki's work has a unique charm that may come from her being more of an outsider. I totally disagree that it doesn't express its themes effectively, and I'm concerned that focusing on Asuka/Ayako more may actually exacerbate some of the current issues. I hope this is a long term goal for after the series is finished, once she learns to manage an editing team effectively as she mentioned in the last update.

I agree with nearly all of the above, especially the point that, although the story and art could use some editing and tightening in spots, Taiyaki’s overall style, both in drawing and plotting, is quite compelling as it is, and I too would hate to see its idiosyncrasies smoothed down into a more conventional mode. Unlike some other series I could name, I never got the sense that the author didn’t know where they going with the story, and I have enjoyed watching them work their way toward the goal.

I can easily imagine how a professional editor would rework this series, but I can’t imagine that story actually being considerably better than this one.

I think it's wonderful that she's receiving criticism at a professional level and that's the way to improve as a professional, but I feel that Taiyaki's work has a unique charm that may come from her being more of an outsider. I totally disagree that it doesn't express its themes effectively, and I'm concerned that focusing on Asuka/Ayako more may actually exacerbate some of the current issues. I hope this is a long term goal for after the series is finished, once she learns to manage an editing team effectively as she mentioned in the last update.

I agree with nearly all of the above, especially the point that, although the story and art could use some editing and tightening in spots, Taiyaki’s overall style, both in drawing and plotting, is quite compelling as it is, and I too would hate to see its idiosyncrasies smoothed down into a more conventional mode. Unlike some other series I could name, I never got the sense that the author didn’t know where they going with the story, and I have enjoyed watching them work their way toward the goal.

I can easily imagine how a professional editor would rework this series, but I can’t imagine that story actually being considerably better than this one.

I think Taiyaki should see these opinions. Maybe you two could write them on her twitter?

Also, she is planning to start re-writing right now and not in the future.

Uh oh.

Everything about this makes me incredibly worried. Editing burn-out is a real thing; welcome to edition #17 that's still not perfect because nothing ever is ...
And if I wanted to read streamlined mainstream manga I'd read those. In fact, there are plenty of them already.

Of course - it might all turn out to be fantastic and we'll just get the same in better. But I'm a naturally skeptical person and it is 2020 after all :/

It is a bit worrying. Right from the beginning this story had a "soul", and a feeling of earnestness that really drew me in, I felt Taiyaki's love for the characters and passion for the story that she was trying to tell. It would be a pity if too much polishing diminished that. Like most of the commenters here I don't feel the early roughness did much harm.

Obviously from I selfish point of view, I don't want to see a loss of momentum since we are at rather a cliff hanger story wise (mutual declaration). Rewrites can be a passion killer, I think that is the main fear, so maybe if there are things she is really passionate about achieving though a rewite/edit and has a clear goal then it could go in interesting places, but otherwise, since because of the incest theme it isn't suitable for the mass market, I fear she might find herself discouraged by by working hard without an obvious end.

But no publisher wants to take Taiyaki's work without radically changing the story (incest is not allowed anywhere, only in R18 magazines, but she doesn't know if the story is actually an R18).

Um... but there are tons of incestuous yuri manga in the Dynasty archive... I mean, seriously, just check the "Incest" tag and you'll find them by the cartload... so... where are they published?

last edited at Jul 17, 2020 11:20AM

I think Taiyaki should see these opinions. Maybe you two could write them on her twitter?

Also, she is planning to start re-writing right now and not in the future.

I'll definitely think about it, or at least asking her about some of this. We talk occasionally so I don't think it'd be weird, but she seems a bit shaken up recently so I'll give it some time.

Did I miss something in the post about the timeline? From the last update, I thought her whole goal for doing this was to spend the 6 months trying to gain the skills that would would be necessary to re-edit it in a realistic time frame in the first place with a team. I figured she'd spend the meantime finishing the last volume, and return once those skills were there: it's a small amount of extra work, but you have a completed draft to work off. If she's... starting re-editing when she doesn't know if she'll be able to re-edit yet.. eek. I completely understand the need to refocus the work eventually, but I can't think of a worse time.

Part of me sees statements like "イチトニブンノイチを親子百合界のやが君にする" and wants to be supportive, but the "works in a creative field" part of me sighs, because she's already made "百合界のイチトニブンノイチ", and I don't think she truly understands how big of a deal that is. When she was discussing how the reaction was split between fans that say "this is amazing" and the rest, I began to wonder if maybe recognizing an unrealistically uncritical fanbase might lead her to put more stock in professional criticism than might be constructive for the work.

Off topic, but if anyone knows how to contact someone about every post I make tripping the spam filter, please let me know.... I tried in the Rules thread and didn't get a response.

last edited at Jul 24, 2020 10:09PM

I think Taiyaki should see these opinions. Maybe you two could write them on her twitter?

I am not on Twitter nor do I ever intend to be, but anyone is welcome to share my posts freely.

I write here as a "fan," but I do analyze comics/manga/visual storytelling as part of my profession, and I certainly believe that Taiyaki's work here has significant positive qualities that could well be lost or minimized by "professionalizing" this particular story.

The closest analogy would be Western underground/alternative comix, where the idiosyncrasies of the author's hand, even if those are perceived as being "amateurish," are part of a work's appeal.

I would never oppose an artist who wants to improve their skills for any reason, including in order to make a living with their art, but any notion that the author's skills are not "good enough" is in my opinion mistaken.

last edited at Jul 17, 2020 12:07PM

But no publisher wants to take Taiyaki's work without radically changing the story (incest is not allowed anywhere, only in R18 magazines, but she doesn't know if the story is actually an R18).

Um... but there are tons of incestuous yuri manga in the Dynasty archive... I mean, seriously, just check the "Incest" tag and you'll find them by the cartload... so... where are they published?

In R18 magazines? Or only as self printed doujinshi?

Yeah I'm also scared that going back and editing or redrawing the whole thing will just burn out her passion for it. Plus I really really want to know what's going to happen.

And I love the story and character she has weaved so far, even if it's complex and hard to resolve or whatever. Even though I feel like it's really not... It's just fucking brilliant plain and simple. I'm like addicted to her style and this story and her tasteful, sexy handling of a taboo.

last edited at Aug 11, 2020 12:50AM

I did end up sending Taiyaki a message with some of the sentiments here, namely that while there were worries about the particularities of her work being lost and the momentum going into the next volume, above all it was felt that (while it might be expected from the fan perspective) her existing technical skill is excellent, her passion makes it stand out, and we support her and her hard work. So if you're anxious about something, know that at least she probably has it in mind. I don't know how much she'd want me to share, so the summary is she really appreciates all the overseas fans and wishes it was easier to communicate, and she may be doing something in the future that'd be helpful in that respect.

Now that some of the redraw work is actually up, I think I can understand better the approach she's taking than when I read the first announcement. It's behind a (very small! so go support her on Fanbox!) paywall, but the first chapters were arguably the ones that needed the most radical work, and she's putting a lot of care and thought into each change. It's clearly still a ton of work, but it appears as if she wants to go much further with the story and with that in mind it makes more sense to do it now. The Vol 9 extras should be pretty enlightening.

last edited at Aug 11, 2020 3:00AM

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/1_x_ch16_4#9

Oh man. That's awesome!

Oh man its going to be a long wait if the author its going to redraw all 9 volumes, i just hope the hype and build up of the story isnt lost in all that time.

Inui Ayu cross over

Ah I love inui ayu. Her art is so pretty. It really does kind of change things and make the original so less detailed but then again it was only one page.

Damn.. while I wish them well and hope it turns out great- it sucks because it means like YEARS before we get a continuation. Also- Imo, second guessing and editing your work often makes it worse even if you have more skills now.
And making it snappier and less detailed and faster moving etc like edits often do is ALSO almost always worse I think.

I think you should just improve your work as you go and then bring what you learn to your NEXT work..

I can easily see them loosing interest half way through too.. I've lost count of how many fan fics etc i've seen 'start over'
only to stop after 1 or 2 chapters.

It also doesn't seem very considerate to your audience, to make them all wait so long.. couldnt they have done this re-edit after finishing part 2 as well?

And, what do they mean by part 2 is a huge change in theme? Is it somehow not about these 2 any more? It might as well be a new story if its gonna radically change or jump to new protags or whatever?

And if its carrying on as is with these 2, and what looks like would come next, I dont see how that is a major change in theme? The THEME is surely a girls incestous feelings for her mom. Change that and you loose everything that makes this story imo.

last edited at Aug 15, 2020 5:30PM

This is so wrong, but it's got me hooked. It's sucking me in. Send help.

Will the second half be just called "3"?

Will the second half be just called "3"?

Lol

A lot of artists get drawn into the trap of wanting to "correct" or redo their previous works, and what this sounds like to me is that it will be months if not years before the story is actually continued in favor of Taiyaki's personal crusade to revise their own history; a massive project that no one but themselves will really be invested in, and even that may fade when the thanklessness and lack of novelty in such an undertaking sets firmly in.

All just my opinion of course. It may well be that I'm underestimating Taiyaki, and I certainly wish them the best, but I honestly feel this is a mistake. It's better to keep moving forward than turn back and try to retread the past.

On one hand it's nice to see an author have so much love and dedication to their story, but on the other hand it just seems so inconsiderate and irresponsible? to do that after such a massive cliffhanger. Why you wouldn't do that after you've finished your story or at least capitalized on the momentum you've built up so far is beyond me.

Well, I don't want to seem like I'm complaining too much. I wish the author the best and I'll surely still be following this story because I'm a sucker.

last edited at Aug 16, 2020 2:28AM

@Cryssoberyl Yup- more or less what I think too- I hope it goes well and fast- OR they drop the idea and pick the story back up quickly! There is always time to waste redoing it after its all finished if they want to try again.

Or why not bring the 'new better way of doing it' directly to the 2nd half so all the readers are not waiting years? And go back and redo part 1 after?

All the time spent redoing it could be used to do ANOTHER entire story- equally bringing their new skills and learning to play. And I have very rarely seen this lead to good results..

last edited at Aug 15, 2020 5:56PM

Not that she needs to redo the old issues, but she probably sees it as the practice she needs to improve her future works. Also creative types have a habit of thinking that what they made is never good enough. I've heard that Earnest Hemingway's editor had to wrestle manuscripts from his hands while he insisted it needed another revision.

Damn.. while I wish them well and hope it turns out great- it sucks because it means like YEARS before we get a continuation. Also- Imo, second guessing and editing your work often makes it worse even if you have more skills now.
And making it snappier and less detailed and faster moving etc like edits often do is ALSO almost always worse I think.

I think you should just improve your work as you go and then bring what you learn to your NEXT work..

I can easily see them loosing interest half way through too.. I've lost count of how many fan fics etc i've seen 'start over'
only to stop after 1 or 2 chapters.

It also doesn't seem very considerate to your audience, to make them all wait so long.. couldnt they have done this re-edit after finishing part 2 as well?

Personally I'm ambivalent, so I think the only way to know is to see how it goes.

I've seen fanfiction where the author did complete a rewrite and it was significantly better. One problem with a large long lived work like this is that although to us it seems like early chapters are a done deal, for new readers they are the first impression. If as an author you feel your work has evolved that can weigh on you - with a "bad" ( or just mismatched) introduction it can feel like new work you do is "hidden" behind it.
Not to mention the commercial pov - the first volume is the "sales pitch" for the rest, another reason she may want to improve it (not just mercenary: in the interests of honest marketing, make it more consistent with her present style).

It is also one of the issues between a serialised work like this and a novel - with a novel the author will revise the completed work to fix inconsistencies in story and tone (usually multiple passes), and that sort of editing/rewriting can really bring a story together. Taiyaki now has a much better feel for the characters and the story as a whole, it is understandable that she has had some new thoughts about how best to introduce it.

As for the change in theme, I'm guessing, but up until now the story has been in a sense "teasing", but now we have a mutual declaration it seems like Ayako and Asuka will be moving towards a full relationship, and even sex - that presents new challenges in storytelling. Even from my small dabbling in fanfiction I've found that light pre-relationship stuff is a lot easier to write than trying to do justice to an deep authentic relationship (realistically addressing Ayako's guilt will be quite a challenge).
(Ironically I recently wrote a Ayako/Asuka first time as sex-scene practice, so far unpublished... feels like it needs a rewrite, lol).

A recompilation ay? I'm looking forward to it, if Tayaki can make an improvement on an already great story I'm keen to see whats in store

Completely redoing the 1st half before finishing the story? I'm out. It's one thing to ask for patience. It's quite another to leave the story on a cliffhanger and then just decide to "redo" the entire thing from the beginning.

It's like if Disney produced and then decided to not release Avengers: End Game and instead chose to re-film all the previous movies. That would have gone over like a lead balloon and would have killed the franchise. Which is exactly what this is going to do for me. It's really a slap in the face to the readers who have stuck by for so long to not get a conclusion to the story.

It's fine to want to maybe redraw and improve earlier chapters. But that's after the story has finished, not right in the fucking middle of it. It's a shame, but if this is how it's going to be, this will be the last time I will read any work from this author. I can't support this decision in any way, shape, or form.