I really don't like how Misa is in this chapter... it kinda seems ooc to me like I'm sure she wouldn't have actually reacted like this when she learned io got sexually assaulted... it's just awful... like io just went through that by someone she knows for so long and then Misa just go and does those things to her, it's just awful like idk Misa as a lesbian and a woman should know better than to victim blame Io for getting sexually assaulted like what the actual fuck.... :(

last edited at Oct 13, 2024 8:51PM

Aaah! She should make totally consentual so the Misa part didn't get abused

...I don't know about you guys, but I think Misa's just resolving the inherent emotional conflict of the situation (both from Io from having been assaulted and from Misa's jealousy) by giving Io an actually good, consentual sexual experience.

Sure, it's messy. Sure, she didn't ask how Io was. But it fits both of these characters perfectly. I know it can hurt if you've been in a similar situation, but the point of fiction like this is to portray a particular fantasy with a particular set of rules/logic and expectations- and in this case, this chapter fits perfectly with the expectations that have been set.

It's toxic yuri after all.

My feelings exactly, put way more eloquently than I would have. I particularly like what you say at the start about Misa "resolving the situation" in a way that makes sense for her and what she's known their dynamic to be so far. I don't want to spoil what happens in the next one but I'll just say your line of reason is worth considering.

Would I have been surprised if Misa had shown more empathy? No. Am I surprised she didn't? No. From the get-go Misa wasn't exactly presented as a paragon of morality. Sure, she's been shown to have a kinder, more supportive side to her, be it to Io or girls at her club, but that doesn't automatically mean she's a good person (did we forget how her first encounter with Io went or?). At best, she's as imperfect and morally ambiguous as they come when it comes to a Flowerchild character.

If anything, this turn of event just goes to show that Misa and Io have so far set very little clear expectations for their relationship beyond "please, boss me around." As far as we know, Misa still refuses to think of herself as a proper S/Dom and only claims that she's "playing along" with Io's wishes. I expect her inner conflict will only become more prevalent from hereon. So yeah imo, it makes sense that she'd react in such an irrational and arguably cruel manner. At the very least, it doesn't feel out-of-character. In the same way, I wouldn't be surprised if Io goes on to respond like an "imperfect" kind of victim.

Overall, it still feels too early in the story to expect any kind of linear progression for them. And again, it's Flowerchild, so they might as well still be very much fucked up by the end of it lol. There was never any guarantee this would be a love story, as much as I would like to see it go that way.

Side note. Not a big fan of the suggestion made in this thread that any victim of SA coming across this manga should be expected to have one specific, "right" reaction, i.e. be offended by it. Way to take away from the victims' agency and individuality, as well as their ability to appreciate the difference between reality and fiction.

last edited at Oct 13, 2024 9:45PM

Unfortunately, Japan has a culture of victim blaming when it comes to sexual assault. A victim being told "you allowed it to happen" is extremely common and we actually see this exact interaction happening between Misa and Io.

Also, it seems like Io is at least perceptive enough to realize that Hase is going after her because she couldn't get with her mom.

I'll admit I'm a little puzzled by Misa's reaction in this chapter, but I don't think it's totally OOC for her. Re-reading the chapter I'm not entirely sure Misa grasps the extent of what happened. I think she suspects Io of cheating as soon as the phone hangs up ("Or is something else going on behind the scenes"), and seeing two hickeys (implying Io didn't push Hase away after the first one) on Io's neck just confirms that suspicion to her.

From that point Misa's having a full-on jealous reaction to the situation and she's interpreting everything Io says through that lens. It's maybe not the smoothest execution, but I think that's how we got from here to there.

What I've appreciated about this story is that it's sort of looking at the gray space between abusive relationships and informal bdsm relationships (Misa's not a dom or otherwise involved in the scene, Io struggles to set boundaries), and what distinguishes one from the other. So far Io has gone along with Misa's shittier behavior, and seems to have found some form of personal liberation and empowerment from it. Chapters like this are signalling that allowing things to continue as they have been might just end up with Io trading one abuser for another. I'm content to let Flowrchild keep cooking with this for a bit.

Why does this author only write unlikeable characters that have no redeeming qualities? The issue with doing that is the ending always acts like it's romantic and ok to be this messed up. Sure people can be crazy and toxic in real life but fiction shouldn't glorify it. Imagine someone that was assaulted reads this. Their biggest take away is if you get assaulted and tell your lover they'll just see you as a cheater. This story feels toxic just for the sake of it.

I mean, this is a work of fiction exploring abusive relationship dynamics, not a manual for understanding the correct way to handle an assault. Fiction can be an avenue for processing a traumatic experience, but that doesn't mean all stories have to adapt themselves to that purpose. Also, Misa being a protagonist is not an authorial endorsement or glorification of her behavior.

Why does this author only write unlikeable characters that have no redeeming qualities? The issue with doing that is the ending always acts like it's romantic and ok to be this messed up. Sure people can be crazy and toxic in real life but fiction shouldn't glorify it. Imagine someone that was assaulted reads this. Their biggest take away is if you get assaulted and tell your lover they'll just see you as a cheater. This story feels toxic just for the sake of it.

In what what specifically does this look glorious to you lmao

Just cute adults doing cute things lol.
Really love this so far.

Unfortunately, Japan has a culture of victim blaming when it comes to sexual assault. A victim being told "you allowed it to happen" is extremely common and we actually see this exact interaction happening between Misa and Io.

Every time someone bad happens in a manga somebody comes along like this to claim it's some kinda especially Japanese bad thing and they're pretty much always wrong. There's not really any country on earth that DOESN'T have rape culture, unfortunately, just as there's no country on earth without patriarchy.

Unfortunately, Japan has a culture of victim blaming when it comes to sexual assault. A victim being told "you allowed it to happen" is extremely common and we actually see this exact interaction happening between Misa and Io.

Every time someone bad happens in a manga somebody comes along like this to claim it's some kinda especially Japanese bad thing and they're pretty much always wrong. There's not really any country on earth that DOESN'T have rape culture, unfortunately, just as there's no country on earth without patriarchy.

Look last samurai, I'm not trying to hate on Japanese culture and I'm definitely not claiming it's an exclusively Japanese thing. I've lived in Japan for a few years and almost every woman I've talked to has experienced some kind of sexual harassment and says they will probably never report it due to the fear of being blamed or shamed. It was a culture shock for me as I came from a country where these things are actually taken seriously. Rape culture does exist in a lot of places but at least in many countries, it is acknowledged by the general public and the government as a shitty thing, and steps are being taken to combat it instead of just trying to shut women (and men) up.

wh- what the actual fuck man.. it was going so well until this chapter

We knew this, but people don’t actually want toxic yuri. The minute you start writing BL drama in a manga for lesbians, here comes the Class S rep to tell you about decency. God forbid you’re a dyke and you want your girlfriend to call you a filthy whore

what the hell are you talking about bro

A little bit confused on how fast Misa changed, from worry to well all of that. But lets see how it goes first on next chapter.

What I've appreciated about this story is that it's sort of looking at the gray space between abusive relationships and informal bdsm relationships (Misa's not a dom or otherwise involved in the scene, Io struggles to set boundaries), and what distinguishes one from the other. So far Io has gone along with Misa's shittier behavior, and seems to have found some form of personal liberation and empowerment from it. Chapters like this are signalling that allowing things to continue as they have been might just end up with Io trading one abuser for another. I'm content to let Flowrchild keep cooking with this for a bit.

Yeah I think this is a perfect description of the place I, too, am at w/regards to the story. I'm willing to give Flowerchild some pretty serious benefit of the doubt here, there's some really interesting places she could go with this, and I doubt this will be a Fuzoroi no Renri situation where it's just a hugely jarring tonal clash that takes me all the way out.

I really feel like what we've seen so far is stage-setting for Flowerchild doing the kind of wet work she really seems to enjoy; working with messy, painful, volatile, and dark feelings in intense relationship dynamics. I'm personally a bit cautious because stuff that looks like this has ruined series I enjoyed--and frankly I've enjoyed the BDSM so much I've been eating it up like ice cream out of the carton at 2am, and it looks like that might be coming to a close. But I'm really excited to see Flowerchild pop off. Can't wait for the next chapter to figure out exactly what the hell is going on.

last edited at Oct 14, 2024 2:11AM

Every time someone bad happens in a manga somebody comes along like this to claim it's some kinda especially Japanese bad thing and they're pretty much always wrong. There's not really any country on earth that DOESN'T have rape culture, unfortunately, just as there's no country on earth without patriarchy.

Look last samurai, I'm not trying to hate on Japanese culture and I'm definitely not claiming it's an exclusively Japanese thing. I've lived in Japan for a few years and almost every woman I've talked to has experienced some kind of sexual harassment and says they will probably never report it due to the fear of being blamed or shamed. It was a culture shock for me as I came from a country where these things are actually taken seriously. Rape culture does exist in a lot of places but at least in many countries, it is acknowledged by the general public and the government as a shitty thing, and steps are being taken to combat it instead of just trying to shut women (and men) up.

You having lived there or not doesn't change the fact that talking as if it were (even if it wasn't your intention) an especially Japanese culture is a thing that happens too often and is packaged with racism. What you've described is what happens in multiple countries, including mine (Brazil) and in 1st world countries even if they claim to be "progressive". They'll always find a reason to blame the victim, be it clothing or a mere hand signal.
It's not Japanese culture, just rape culture.
I'm not trying to single you out, it's just something to have in mind.

Like everyone else Misa's reaction in this really surprised me, but like kinseijoshi I don't think that it's OOC. I'm really excited to see where this is going!

Honestly I was just confused because Misa had seemed more perceptive than to think Io was doing things with Hase on purpose

Honestly I was just confused because Misa had seemed more perceptive than to think Io was doing things with Hase on purpose

I think that too. I also assumed Misa knows that Io just got assaulted. As an added layer, in the past, Misa seemed annoyed at her newfound relationship with Io and possibly is trying to fight an internal battle against catching feelings (platonic, romantic, or otherwise) for a "client." Maybe she wants to offer humane touch, but her "role" of sadist and general annoyance at running around town aimlessly compound to a lack of gentleness. Misa isn't perfect, but I was hoping she would at least give Io some comfort and rest before jumping into sexual stuff or punishment. Especially seeing someone cry and still stomping their head is pretty intense,but as others have pointed out, that's par for the course in this drama and mangaka. I'm curious to see how the two reflect on this situation afterwards, if Io feels more fucked up, or is Misa has any regrets or aftercare.

last edited at Oct 14, 2024 3:14AM

knowing the mangaka there will be after care after. But this does seem more like Misa trying to grasp control of herself in the situation as well. Fight back weird feelings + deal with a manager rapist lady who has all access to Io that she wants and Io refuses to separate

basically, toxic yuri

last edited at Oct 14, 2024 3:33AM

Every time someone bad happens in a manga somebody comes along like this to claim it's some kinda especially Japanese bad thing and they're pretty much always wrong. There's not really any country on earth that DOESN'T have rape culture, unfortunately, just as there's no country on earth without patriarchy.

Look last samurai, I'm not trying to hate on Japanese culture and I'm definitely not claiming it's an exclusively Japanese thing. I've lived in Japan for a few years and almost every woman I've talked to has experienced some kind of sexual harassment and says they will probably never report it due to the fear of being blamed or shamed. It was a culture shock for me as I came from a country where these things are actually taken seriously. Rape culture does exist in a lot of places but at least in many countries, it is acknowledged by the general public and the government as a shitty thing, and steps are being taken to combat it instead of just trying to shut women (and men) up.

You having lived there or not doesn't change the fact that talking as if it were (even if it wasn't your intention) an especially Japanese culture is a thing that happens too often and is packaged with racism. What you've described is what happens in multiple countries, including mine (Brazil) and in 1st world countries even if they claim to be "progressive". They'll always find a reason to blame the victim, be it clothing or a mere hand signal.
It's not Japanese culture, just rape culture.
I'm not trying to single you out, it's just something to have in mind.

Like everyone else Misa's reaction in this really surprised me, but like kinseijoshi I don't think that it's OOC. I'm really excited to see where this is going!

Giving valid criticisms of a country or culture is not racist. And having lived there did in fact change my perspective of Japan as I learned how normalized victim blaming is. Ask any woman living in Japan and they will tell you it's a HUGE problem in Japan. The government, the police, the media, even the general public will pressure you into keeping quiet to "preserve the harmony".

Also, just because it happens in other places, doesn't make it any less of a problem. Like I said, even though it happens in other places, the difference is that in many of these places, people actually listen to and sympathize with victims, instead of being dismissive and victim blaming like some people here.

People are confused why Misa acted this way after learning about what happened to Io. But when you understand that victim blaming is normalized in Japanese culture (again, I'm not saying it is exclusive to Japanese culture), it becomes more clear why Misa acted the way she did. However, it still does not justify her actions.

Surprised at Misa's response. Io was brave enough to reject and run away from a person who controls her whole life, not once, but twice. Misa was there for two of the manager's crazy rants. Misa's background does explain it a bit I guess. 'after hour services' are thing she 'chooses' not to do, and she's merciless about others 'choosing' to do them. She really does not seem to parse that Io was under an enormous amount of duress. I dont think she even has a concept of sexual assault, going by her response. After all, she doesn't let anyone do anything she doesn't want. Still, I'm disappointed. Because it's so rape culture.

People are confused why Misa acted this way after learning about what happened to Io. But when you understand that victim blaming is normalized in Japanese culture (again, I'm not saying it is exclusive to Japanese culture), it becomes more clear why Misa acted the way she did. However, it still does not justify her actions.

I don't know if this is the fault of my difficult expressing myself in English but you have misunderstood me.

Giving valid criticisms of a country or culture is not racist.

I'm not saying that's what is racist, because I don't agree with excusing and protecting sexism in cultures, or that just because it's coming from some "minority" then it's okay for them to be doing that... It's acting like it's an unique problem to them that bothered me a bit and I only mentioned racism because people (not you in special) will often, even if they aren't aware of it, be harsher on whatever they're criticizing on the basis of it being asian, or just not white, and act like it's inherent to them and not a problem that's created by an environment that allows it to grow, which happens everywhere in the world.

Also, just because it happens in other places, doesn't make it any less of a problem. Like I said, even though it happens in other places, the difference is that in many of these places, people actually listen to and sympathize with victims, instead of being dismissive and victim blaming like some people here.

And we literally think the same regarding it not being less of a problem. Again, I'm not saying we should excuse those things, that wasn't what I was trying to say at all. Just that rape culture isn't unique to them, even that way of acting isn't unique to them and you aren't saying this either... But exactly because it isn't unique that for me it doesn't make much sense to act like it's especially Japanese when it's just rape culture thriving more easily.
It wouldn't make sense for me to say that it's Brazilian culture to think that it's okay to rape women just because they were wearing shorts, that they should be quiet about it and blame them for it so I don't see why it'd be different when it comes to any other country.

It would of been out character for Misa had she held and comforted Io.

Misa has some weird mutated feet.

If Ersrs is from a country that handled it relatively better and then went to Japan where they handled it relatively worse, it makes sense to me Ersrs would associate it with Japanese culture. And culture can have negative or destructive elements to it that necessitate culturally specific criticism in order to change.

A practice can also be part of many cultures, like, say, wearing pants. If Ersrs was from a culture where people did not normally wear pants, went to Japan, and then said "Pants are an important part of Japanese culture," that might seem weird even if it's technically correct. It's still natural to associate it with Japan if that's where you first encountered ubiquitous pants usage.

On the other hand, we are on a public webfourm talking in the main lingua franca. There is a risk of readers subject to previous racist messaging using this both to stigmitize Japan and act like their own country lacks this problem. I would agree the situation demands tact in how criticism is levied, especially if one is not Japanese, and so we should make it clear this phenomenon is not unique to Japan. I'm not sure the two of you really disagree about anything of import, though, as much as you are speaking from different sets of life experiences.

everyone here seems to have forgotten that misa sexually assaulted io in her sleep on their like, first meeting. misa is not some paragon of consensual bdsm safety. whats more, io then told misa that she liked what she did and wanted her to do more of it. regardless of them getting a little closer as they went on, misa's relationship with io has very much formed around that basis. this is the natural progression of that dynamic, where clear boundaries were never talked about. of course its not a good thing, but it was never a healthy relationship to start with.

also if anyone has read this author's other works this shouldn't be surprising at all.

Misa has some weird mutated feet.

Realistic-looking feet are not exactly in the draftsmanship wheelhouse of a lot of mangaka.

Dogs, either.