It's just transphobia, but they think we can't notice what's quietly being said behind the guise of "protecting" the comfort of non-binary people—people who had and still have the idea that they aren't trans like the others used to keep them from being able to access community, HRT and surgeries, and you'll also see specifically non-binary transfems often shoving themselves into a strict woman category so they aren't treated as men-lite, but still have their status as non-binary denied by other trans people—possibly being associated with transness, like they aren't included inside it by default.
But no matter how much you state what the work itself already makes explicitly clear, there'll always be someone doing a disservice to non-binary people as a whole by arguing about what it could mean to people on an individual level (and no questioning of why the discomfort with being associated with trans as a concept) when it's a social group-level category that says nothing about your identity on a personal level.

If people still keep trying to deny Ren being trans after what they see happening later on, the only way to describe that reaction is transphobia through the purposeful denial of the trans themes.

And if anyone wants to be spoiled and know the scene that makes it absolutely explicit, for context yes, Ren wears a binder, so at that point it's clear they have chest dysphoria, and Matsuri says something (it's been months since I read it so I won't be able to say what exactly, sorry, but iirc she does notice the difference in volume) that makes Ren uncomfortable, so they end up running away, showering somewhere else and start punching their chest and also later they're misgendered by Matsuri's ex-husband, who was also being misogynistic, and is visibly uncomfortable, but she stands up for them.

Yay! I was looking forward to seeing this part adapted

...Huh, so did they reproduce or are they capable of handling two bodies at the same time...? I thought that it was some sort of digestive enzyme being vomited into her mouth, but if eating the body was necessary to mimic it, then they wouldn't have been able to mimic the original Niehara since it was Takahashi who ate him. Or is this just some temporary body control...?

Other people could relate to that very same character and feel uncomfortable being called trans by proxy.

And do you genuinely not see how transphobic it is not to want to be associated with trans people in any way? Imagine if someone said this about being gay and feeling uncomfortable being called gay by proxy. Or any other minority. Don't you think there's some questioning to be done on why something like that would make someone uncomfortable if they supposedly have nothing against trans people? Do you think it's okay when people rid themselves of anything feminine because they could possibly be associated with women, which is something that happens in the real world and we see all the ways it makes people suffer? Obviously you don't, so why do trans people get to be treated like that?

For me, Ren's character is written as being uncomfortable with being assigned a gender, or being expected to act a certain way, wear certain clothes or have a certain voice.

You described a non-binary trans person.

And if you read the small character in the pages of chapter 4, you'd see that people keep asking them "do you know the term x-gender?" or "Are you going to get surgery?". Well intentioned people piling up pressure on them to conform to "something".

With the context of the pages (1, 2, 3) those are absolutely not well intentioned people, but people being invasive about Ren's body and treating them as something exotic that would obviously want to make bodily alterations 'expected' of someone (strange) like them, and thinking that Ren would be willing to share something so personal about their body, because they are not seen as a person, but an exotic thing anyone has the right to know about... just like trans people irl.
And even though Ren is not transfem, if we're talking about surgery, transfems are a good example of this with of how people act entitled to knowing about if they have plans for getting SRS or about their genitals in general, when that's something absolutely personal and a form of sexual harassment.

So what you did is, you saw a sequence portraying the invasiveness of people treating the character as Exotic because they don't see them as human, who were able to tell there was something about them before Ren themself could understand it, all while they weren't ready to consider that they could be something other than an "anomaly"... and you read that as people being too "supportive" and pushing them into a box—and then shoved trans users who identified with the character, who were also likely victims of the same dehumanizing treatment, into the same category as characters harassing Ren.
And that's not even mentioning the explicitly transphobic things Ren was being called and told.

NOTHING on that page was meant positively.

This feels like saying asexual people are actually homosexual, because there's only heterosexuality and homosexuality, and therefore if you aren't heterosexual you must be homosexual.

You can take that with society who decided that everyone needs to be male or female and following a strict set of traits to the point they will injure babies and beat up kids for not following the rules, not me who is simply stating how the categorization works and why the character, and even people who do not label themselves as such, fall into it, because all it takes to be trans and treated as such is to not be cis. I have said multiple times this is not a matter of individuality and the labeling your prefer, but your relationship to the gender enforced by society and how it affects your existence not just as an individual but part of a targeted group.
If you think this is comparable to asexual, and also bisexual, people having their attraction doubted and stepped on, then that's on you for not understanding the discussion, or anything about what it means to be cis or trans and why when discussing those social categories it is not helpful to be seeing of it through individual labels instead of a group who share the common trait of Not being cis, and reading my words in the most disgusting way possible.

You can keep ignoring my words though, and pretend that there are no people on this thread actively averse to calling the character trans and that I want everyone to use the words I've assigned to them, I've already said everything I wanted to. Not engaging anymore because none of you actually want to engage with my words and will act like this is just a well-intentioned protection of non-binary people and not quiet transphobia.

A shame such a beautiful work has readers who refuse to actually engage with the topics being discussed and are part of the very problem being portrayed, where the 'other' is treated as disgusting and something our character shouldn't want to be!

Ren is trans. Bye!

Yes, but that's the thing, I'm not talking about trans in a personal identity way, but where Ren fits. There's no third thing because what society wants you to be is Cis and only one way to stray from that which is what is being Trans. Unlike what was implied about me, I don't go around calling REAL people who don't want to be called trans if they have another way of describing themselves and have made it clear they prefer it and don't want to be called trans, because I'm not an asshole and have no right over their autonomy so I'm not going to be saying "You HAVE to call yourself this LABEL!!!". I'm not going to be forcing anything on anyone when I know how it is and I am forever stuck being something I never wanted to. What I'm saying is that on an individual level, labels are a matter of comfort and community, but that doesn't mean you're outside of a targeted group.
The difference is that this is a fictional character and we're discussing what's in the text and they've done nothing but try to shut that discussion down without understanding what they're talking about. Ren is not going to get hurt by trans users on the forum saying they're trans because they relate to the character's struggles.

I never said being trans was bad. Don't distort my thoughts.Trans people are very fine people, I don't have any problem with them.

I just object to put people in little boxes they never asked to be put into.

Some people are averse to the word "trans", it's true. These people should be educated of course, but applying the term to those who didn't ask for it may make them a target.

And I think in a chapter of this very manga, the author made it clear that being labeled was harrowing to Ren.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/pale_blue_green_color_saudade_ch04#12

And if this manga is a bit autobiographical, you can feel the pain of the author when they're told what they should be. A man, a woman, a trans. I'm not even sure they want to identify as non-binary.

They don't exist so a discussion around their transness is not going to hurt them, and again, it's not a matter of label. If we're going to think about it in the way real life works, then you are simplifying this issue way too much because first you'd have to question why there are people who don't feel comfortable calling themselves trans, why aren't they aware that they could be trans, why they aren't aware that non-binary exists, why people only think of a binary when they think of trans, why people would want to distance themselves from transness, why is it considered an offense to be trans...

Nobody here is telling what a character or a person should be but where on a non-individual level they fit in society... because they do fit in. I don't even call myself trans or non-binary outside of necessary contexts where something needs to be communicated. And I wish we lived in a world where the existence of those labels wasn't necessary, but it IS necessary for discussion, and even if you don't call yourself that, for as long as gender is violently enforced as it currently is and plays the role it does in society it will continue to be necessary.

So what we're seeing in this manga is clearly a trans character. They may not call themself that, they may not call themself non-binary (which itself is an anglophone term that people who fit into it may not call themselves!) but that's the relation they have to gender and their whole struggle.

You may not identify as trans but you are included in it because of your relation to society, and I'm not going to force you to call yourself that because it is a personal preference, and I myself do not use a certain label that does apply to me because it makes me very uncomfortable, but when we are analyzing our relation to society, that's what you'd fall under because you are not cis.

Love being portrayed as the evil mean one in a discussion for clearly seeing someone treating transness as something inherently bad that's forced on a character by people who relate to them!

You act like calling a trans character trans is some sort of offense. Ren shares the same experiences as many trans people on the forum but if we say they're one of us we're being mean to them, amazing.
The definition of an 'advocacy group' isn't enough context to why there are people who are non-binary and don't call themselves transgender, why this was such an issue in LGBTQ communities as a whole, and does not change the fact that they are trans even if they do not call themselves so. Trans is not just an individual identity label but a term used to define our relation to the gender binary enforced by society, and they sure aren't cis. They're trans, because if you aren't cis, you're trans.

Every time someone brings Ren being trans up the first thing you do is try to shut it down when you don't understand those definitions yourself, and multiple people have already pointed out why they believe the character is trans. An author doesn't need to write something explicitly for it to be true.

last edited at May 21, 2026 4:54AM

Non-binary is trans. What makes someone trans is if they aren't cis, no matter if they're 'binary' or 'non-binary', and it's pretty clear Ren is not a cis woman. I don't understand this reluctance to call a clearly trans character what they are, trans.

I enjoyed this one a lot!! And I think you did really well for your first time translating manga

The reason I don't think this is a bad end couple is that Kagari's whole thing is "run away and be in lesbians with me regardless of the consequences". Ageha refusing to do that even after she accepts her relationship with Kagari makes it clear that she's actively rejecting a codependent relationship dynamic. Yes, they might have picked each other because of fate/convenience/lack of options, but she's focused on building a constructive relationship from that.

Yeah, things only actively got worse for her when she sort of distanced herself from Kagari by reaffirming herself of that what she wants is to be Normal when she's not 'fit' for normalcy :P She may get benefits, sure, but to get that benefit there's a choice to be made, and it was up to Ageha to choose if she wanted to be unhappy but Normal or happy but Weird

I love this page ALSO

Yeah, they've done something similar to me before on the forum when I called a fictional guy who was written to be an asshole... an asshole (same accusation of "misandry" and implying I'm insane lol) on another work, you're simply not allowed to be mean to fictional men if they act a little nice, but they sure want you to think about the woman who acts in questionable manners even though that's the whole appeal... a woman who acts in a questionable manner. "But what about the girl doing it too? Why is nobody talking about The Appeal and declaring they don't condone the character's actions!" Every Time. It's tiring.

It's in the Title. A Yuri Story About How My Classmate Whose Only Good Trait Is Her Excessively Pretty Face Comes At Me Relentlessly and that's what people are here to see and enjoy seeing.

Yes!! Finally more Kotonoha sisters I love them!!

Some people here get so angry whenever you say anything slightly negative about a male character they start being misogynistic... and go back to the belief every woman is going to or can have a child, because of a fictional man.

wtf are you talking about with this "child" business?

Read the post above mine where it says "hope you'll have a son".

He in fact did not force himself on her. But Yarai did. Readers just want to excuse it because she's a cute girl in a yuri work and Ritsu ended up liking it, so Yarai gets away with it.

Except he did by forcefully dragging her with him, and notice how I didn't call him evil or anything, because that's a fictional teen being awkward and not really understanding how to go about it and then forcing himself on her as a result, and also continuing with her despite noticing she had no interest. It's in the work itself. Both were awkward about it and it's where Ritsu's whole trouble came from! Because they're awkward and unsure of how to deal with things!
I also don't see anyone "excusing Yarai", the readers can recognize she was forcing herself on Ritsu (which was the set up of their relationship, so what do you gain from mentioning that like it somehow contradicts what people said about the guy...?), but the difference is that this is a yuri work, meaning it is focusing on the relationship between girls, and not everything needs to be healthy or consensual in fiction. Isn't the whole appeal in it exactly how she was forceful and insistent about it, and Ritsu ended up liking it because it was her? Because she's gay...? That plays a very big part in the character's reaction and it's not just "you're only excusing it because she's a girl!". Who is denying she was being forceful?

People can point out those things without it being because of a fantastical reason like "misandry", and a girl not liking a fictional man and calling him mean things isn't the end of the world.

This is a "I like it when a girl is forceful on me and a little crazy about me" manga and him being forceful is part of it to show she liked it when it was a girl...
I find this whole "but the girl is doing it too" so boring.

Some people here get so angry whenever you say anything slightly negative about a male character they start being misogynistic... and go back to the belief every woman is going to or can have a child, because of a fictional man. A fictional man who did in fact force himself on a fictional woman, and all the poster did was point out something the text itself made clear was him forcing himself on her and her not enjoying it

Obligatory Twinstar Cyclone Runaway (Novel) because it's awesomes

Originals

Did Your Second Sense Get Another Helping?
The Skirt Sings at the Landing
Out of the Blue!
Pale Blue-green Color Saudade
Canaries Dream of Shining Stars
TANKOBU
Normality and Monsters

Doujin

The Immortal Who Saw the Death of the Universe
Ran-Chama, Please Come Here!
Gods Gods Gods
An Android's Sense of "Love."
Invension Queen Alice
Curse of Red
Her Day

Oneshots

I Don’t Need Promises
Our Love At The Core Of It
Top? Bottom? A Three-Round Bout!
100 Percent
Can I Get You To Go?

Authors

Yodokawa
Usui Shio
U-temo
Otsu Hiyori

Still got two chapters left this volume to translate (Working on it, don't worry...!) before we can get started on volume 3

To be fair willingly engaging on embezzlement even when she had a daughter and knew the risks because her husband manipulated her does make her unfit to be a parent.

Is it really "willingly" when she was manipulated by him? He was about to put them into an even more dangerous situation, pretty much cornering Matsuri. Her and Koyomi are both the victims here—he literally targeted a vulnerability (her love for her daughter AND him) so he could get out of the pit he dug himself and push all the blame on her, all while acting like he actually cared.

Crazy how it's been almost a year since the last chapter, hopefully Kabocha can make her recovery soon... I kind of miss reading the discussions here

Those two are too adorable, really satisfying work as a whole!!

100% agree. Non-binary is trans, of course, but the people who were calling her NB weren't calling her NB because they actually saw her as transfem, but as a way to distance her from being a girl. I don't play it, but even as an outsider, it's clear that she's a trans girl character victim of the usual transmisogyny.

Just a small update, I'm almost done with the rough of 5.1 and wanted to apologize for my current rhythm, I've been having a hard time focusing on anything for multiple reasons, but thankfully we're almost done with the second volume, there's about only 1/4 left to translate!

Kiyo is, however, a genderfluid person who from what I understood was AFAB and tended to present femininely. I dont think there was anything to suggest the other way around and thus play things about his characterization transmisogynistically. like his "elephant" could very well just be a strap, tdick, or penis and it wouldnt have really any bearing. I get wanting to jump the gun but idk i think Kiyo was cool to have in this story

She was camab. She used to present as a guy, and the work itself even goes out of its way to show how different she is now, and again, pointing out that somebody who seems to be a woman is actually a guy is a common transmisogynistic trope. Haruki was clearly uncomfortable with that joke, and Kiyo seems also to be the only character to joke like that, so it makes her pop in a strange way.

I don't know if I quite get what "jump the gun" means, but I made that post after thinking about it for a few days, and I still believe the author needed to do more research because it tries to touch on a lot of things without a clear focus, and its weakest moments were exactly when it strayed too much from the main pair and tried to make some form of social commentary without a solid base. This isn't me saying that nobody can ever write a transfem genderfluid character, but that in media as a whole there's a tendency to immediately point to transfem characters' cagab as if to disconnect them from womanhood and turn them into a third thing, and this one isn't an exception to it.

(And in my opinion, even if she was transmasc genderfluid, it's still unpleasant for the only trans character to be portrayed as making Haruki uncomfortable like that, especially with how transfems usually are written as.)
Again, I read this knowing it wasn't my thing, and it really wasn't! But there were some cute moments between the main couple, which would have been even better if Asuka was Crazier, and I felt it was worth it to bring up Kiyo in case there are people who are uncomfortable with that.

Bapying out

Wow, it's already been almost 10 years since this got posted. I didn't understand it very well back then, but reading it again now, I like how it's a mix of cute and messed up, though I misremembered it as being a lot more messed up in the animal cruelty sense.

last edited at Nov 23, 2025 3:00AM

@juanelric

Yeah, not to go too off-topic, but sadly too many people, even other trans people, love to act like transness is an uniquely western/white concept. So you get people who are more in contact with anglophones and similar saying that it's a western plague invading their countries, or even trans people saying that a clearly transmisogynistic category found within other countries that transfems were/are shoved into as a way to degender and dehumanize them is, actually, something unique to another culture that we 'outsiders' (when often it's another 'outsider' who doesn't even speak the language claiming that) are completely incapable of understanding and that it definitely doesn't make the people there trans(fem).

Like damn, I wish we could go on for longer without those sort of comments on pictures and works with trans girl characters trying to debate if they're actually trans or a woman. At least the moderation here does act on transphobia unlike other websites.

(Also, regarding the dog whistle, it's still serving as one, and it's a matter of what online spaces you're looking at and how aware people are of the TERF narrative... and since a lot of people aren't very aware, it helps them camouflage better. It's not unusual for us non-native english speakers to make that mistake, but one we all have to be careful of regardless. And like, it does carry a negative implication on its own, that trans women are different to women, since nobody says that about other groups of women.)