OH WOW!
I though Misa will end bed the manager but this one who is going to Io.
So all those weird previous scene with her had reasons

Oh ok so she’s a groomer. She’s had a weird psychosexual obsession with Io this whole time and now that she’s had sex she’s gone from pretty doll to woman and that obsession is shifting along with it. Super super creepy.

Her making Io promise her not to see Misa is so fucked up, she’s trying so hard to make that girl mentally ill. You just know Io will internalize that as a promise she made rather than coercion and the result of a lifelong conditioning to buckle under pressure.

Unfortunately it’s also kinda hot…

I can’t wait to see how Misa fights for her girl, though. They have my fave kind of dynamic and I looooove when the Aloof Scary Older Girl has to get passionate and protective aghhhh it’s gonna be so good.

I really don't think "groomer" has a useful place in analyzing this story (or most any story there's pretty much always better terms that don't have the disgusting political baggage that we could use). The story is pretty clear that while Hase has possibly been harboring these feelings for some time, she's been content with the access being the manager gives her until recently, when she noticed the changes to Io thanks to Misa. Remember that Io didn't even know Hase had a key to her apartment until two chapters ago. Io has not developed into what Hase wanted her to be or trained her to be, but she's taking advantage of the situation for sure.
Also worth mentioning again that Io is not a child. She's old enough to drink, and she's mature enough to know what she wants and pursue it with emotional honesty and clarity. She lacks power in this situation not because of her age, immaturity, or naivety, but because Hase is full control of Io's career. She's not a child being exploited, she's functionally an employee being exploited.

last edited at Sep 29, 2024 6:32PM

im gonna start ripping my hair out

I knew it. Ughh. Nonono slap the manager, io!

Damn okay that happened faster than I thought it would. Lot of interesting directions this could go. The barely restrained slap from Hase sure is some dark foreshadowing though. I imagine Io will immediately cave and hook up with Misa again as soon as Misa is able to get them alone together and Io will get stuck in a loop trying to appease both of them until someone (likely Hase let's be real) does something extreme enough for her to make a hard choice and commit to one of them. I also expect them all to destroy their livelihoods in the process because how could they not with their careers and reputation on the line.

Solid solid chapter. One panel that caught my attention was Io pausing after being made to promise she won't see Misa again. On one hand of course she still wants to see Misa, but on the other hand Io likes being ordered around and going with those orders, so naturally Io promises.

Of course in the past scenes Io said that she would like to be ordered around by Misa specifically, but I can see it being extended to the manager as well.

Damn okay that happened faster than I thought it would. Lot of interesting directions this could go. The barely restrained slap from Hase sure is some dark foreshadowing though. I imagine Io will immediately cave and hook up with Misa again as soon as Misa is able to get them alone together and Io will get stuck in a loop trying to appease both of them until someone (likely Hase let's be real) does something extreme enough for her to make a hard choice and commit to one of them. I also expect them all to destroy their livelihoods in the process because how could they not with their careers and reputation on the line.

Hase is already doing something extreme. Io doesn't want this and doesn't seem interested in Hase whatsoever. Hase's on her way to assaulting her or worse in this very scene. This was a very uncomfortable move from her.

last edited at Sep 29, 2024 10:52PM

I really don't think "groomer" has a useful place in analyzing this story (or most any story there's pretty much always better terms that don't have the disgusting political baggage that we could use).

Let me say first that I agree with the entirety of your post, and I'm not taking issue here with anything at all about your reading of the story, just riffing off what you've said.

I do think it's interesting what the "idol" trope (in stories and in real life) does to the concepts of adulthood generally and to "grooming" specifically.

Taking the second part first, being "groomed" (as a performer and a public figure) is both figuratively and literally what becoming an idol is all about--it's all singing and dance training, deportment lessons, etc., and if a manager isn't literally the person doing an idol's hair and makeup, they're in charge of the people who do it.

And the idol ethos is specifically about keeping the performers if not literally infantilized, then in a state of enforced perceived adolescence--sexy but not sexual, desirable in fantasy by everyone but supposedly never partnerable by anyone in real life. These are professionals generating considerable sums of money (although apparently much of the revenue goes to parents, agencies, managers, etc.) who are denied most visible signs of transitioning into adulthood like drinking, dating, etc.

And that's just the most neutral "default" idol mode, not the documented extreme career pressure, overwork, media exploitation, online bullying and rumor-mongering, etc. It's pretty easy to see why being-in-control-of-not-being-in-control could fit an idol character in a series like this one to a T.

the manager is so controlling...

I really don't think "groomer" has a useful place in analyzing this story (or most any story there's pretty much always better terms that don't have the disgusting political baggage that we could use). The story is pretty clear that while Hase has possibly been harboring these feelings for some time, she's been content with the access being the manager gives her until recently, when she noticed the changes to Io thanks to Misa. Remember that Io didn't even know Hase had a key to her apartment until two chapters ago. Io has not developed into what Hase wanted her to be or trained her to be, but she's taking advantage of the situation for sure.
Also worth mentioning again that Io is not a child. She's old enough to drink, and she's mature enough to know what she wants and pursue it with emotional honesty and clarity. She lacks power in this situation not because of her age, immaturity, or naivety, but because Hase is full control of Io's career. She's not a child being exploited, she's functionally an employee being exploited.

She did groom her tho, Io said that she has been working with Hase san since she was a teenager (up to 14) and stated that she has always been this controlling, but didn't got sexual till now that someone else got a taste first

last edited at Sep 30, 2024 1:05AM

I really don't think "groomer" has a useful place in analyzing this story (or most any story there's pretty much always better terms that don't have the disgusting political baggage that we could use). The story is pretty clear that while Hase has possibly been harboring these feelings for some time, she's been content with the access being the manager gives her until recently, when she noticed the changes to Io thanks to Misa. Remember that Io didn't even know Hase had a key to her apartment until two chapters ago. Io has not developed into what Hase wanted her to be or trained her to be, but she's taking advantage of the situation for sure.
Also worth mentioning again that Io is not a child. She's old enough to drink, and she's mature enough to know what she wants and pursue it with emotional honesty and clarity. She lacks power in this situation not because of her age, immaturity, or naivety, but because Hase is full control of Io's career. She's not a child being exploited, she's functionally an employee being exploited.

She did groom her tho, Io said that she has been working with Hase san since she was a teenager (up to 14) and stated that she has always been this controlling, but didn't got sexual till now that someone else got a taste first

That's not what grooming means. There is absolutely zero reason to think Hase has influenced Io's sexuality or development in any way. Also, Io only got her big break shortly after she first met Misa and before that was just one girl among many at a talent agency. There's no way Hase had a 1:1 relationship with her or much direct control over her back then, seeing as she could get away with going to a lesbian hookup club, getting drunk and staying out all night with a one night stand. She was just one of many aspiring actors Hase managed as part of the agency. She just has not had the space to influence Io in any way more than the typical abusive management of any person at a talent agency. What Io likely meant by that line is that Hase's always seemed like a controlling person, not that Hase has been in control of her life this whole time. The meeting in the chapter one flashback wouldn't make sense otherwise, and there's no justification for Io to have such management before her becoming famous.
There's also no reason to assume she's been attempting to work in showbiz since she was as young as 14, not when her breakout roll happened when she was over 20. That's way too long to fail and not give up. She hasn't expressed any sort of passion for acting or showbiz, it feels like a default to her since it's the industry her parents work in, so she probably defaulted to it when she was done with school. I'd assume Io lived with her parents and went to high school normally and only started working after graduation at 17.

Solid solid chapter. One panel that caught my attention was Io pausing after being made to promise she won't see Misa again. On one hand of course she still wants to see Misa, but on the other hand Io likes being ordered around and going with those orders, so naturally Io promises.

Of course in the past scenes Io said that she would like to be ordered around by Misa specifically, but I can see it being extended to the manager as well.

I really don't think Io would have agreed with what Hase demanded of her just because "she likes to be ordered around," since who is giving the orders obviously matters to her: she explicitly considered hooking up with other lesbians and then ran away at the last second, as described in chapter 2. Hase just has extreme control over Io's life and career, the endorsement of her parents,, access to her home, and is physically threatening on top of all that. I'm pretty sure Io obeyed out of fear, not because she's playing along as a sub.
To be clear: while Io did not get "groomed" into becoming who she is now (a state that is in no way portrayed by the author as a bad thing to be, which is very important! Io's personally and sexual tastes are not that of a victim, just a sub!), this behavior in the present from Hase is absolutely abusive. That was a scene of sexual assault, not Io being tempted to cheat on/leave behind Misa.

last edited at Sep 30, 2024 3:38AM

I feel compelled to write something about why it's such a big deal to me that Io is clearly portrayed as naturally a submissive lesbian, rather than being groomed into being one: The origin of the word "grooming" in this context was coined to describe pedophiles training children to take precocious interest in sexual acts and relationships, normalizing behavior far younger than they'd otherwise engage in it. The far right jumped on this and twisted it, using "grooming" to describe children being given access to queer media or exposed to queer role models and thus coming out as gay or trans themselves as an act of self-realization. This disgusting association is why so many people (like myself) have fully abandoned the term and use other phrasing to describe the actions of child predators. Neither of these definitions of the term apply to Io, which is important. Io's sexuality is not a corrupted version of her natural state, not something imposed upon her. It's a completely healthy aspect of her, as shown in the downright wholesome relationship she has with Misa. Io is a submissive gay woman, not because of abuse or trauma or deliberate sculpting of her sexual interests or personality, but because that's just who Io naturally is, and that's a perfectly okay kind of person to be.
This is important because there is a LOT of stigma around being queer, around being into BDSM, and just around being a woman with particularly strong sexual interests in general. Io's at a specific nexus of traits that make characters like her almost ALWAYS portrayed as unhealthy victims corrupted into that state. This contributes to a whole lot of shame in the real people who share some or all of those three traits, which is obviously fucked up and really bad. I've talked to fellow lesbians who've been pushed so far by this shame that they feel an impulse to suspect their perfectly normal non-abusive parents of having done SOMETHING that they just don't remember, since they've got these interests that are almost exclusively shown as the result of sexual abuse in the media. I've seen so, so, so many people absolutely terrified of their own sexuality because they have fantasies about being a dom and they're convinced they'll hurt people if they don't bury those feelings. Flowerchild portraying Io and Misa as being perfectly healthy and happy together is a really positive thing that can help real people reading this feel so much better about themselves.

last edited at Sep 30, 2024 4:09AM

Oh ok so she’s a groomer. She’s had a weird psychosexual obsession with Io this whole time and now that she’s had sex she’s gone from pretty doll to woman and that obsession is shifting along with it. Super super creepy.

Manager still sees io as a kid, which is even more messed up.

I really don't think Io would have agreed with what Hase demanded of her just because "she likes to be ordered around," since who is giving the orders obviously matters to her: she explicitly considered hooking up with other lesbians and then ran away at the last second, as described in chapter 2. Hase just has extreme control over Io's life and career, the endorsement of her parents,, access to her home, and is physically threatening on top of all that. I'm pretty sure Io obeyed out of fear, not because she's playing along as a sub.

This. It's a classic part of an abusive relationship and why Flowerchild is doing such a good job at portraying the difference that consent plays in this sort of dynamic. With Misa, she's seeing her and allowing her to dominate her out of her own will, but this? There's clearly a power imbalance, she's not into it, she's being coerced into it because she currently sees no other option than doing as she's told.
If she refuses, what will happen to her career? Where will she go to? How will she fend on her own? What about her parents?
And really, just the fear of defying someone who you see as an authority with power over everything you do is enough for her to comply. It's just like defying a controlling parent for the first time.
She hasn't reached that point where you accept that you DON'T have to stay and become determined to value yourself and let go of the people that only cause you harm. It's scary to lose it all at first even if you know that you can rebuild later on, feels "safer" to keep things as they are because at least you know what will happen.

Hase is basically telling her to know her place and that she has no voice of her own, keeping her in a little cage. "Oh, so you want this? Okay but it has to be my way or else, and don't dare to complain, it's my right to do this"
After her precious "belonging" got a taste of freedom, she started considering her tainted and only got creepier, as far as invading her privacy in new ways.. So truly it's not a matter of Io liking being ordered around, this is the result of fear.

Reminds me of my own parents, honestly. All the watching and the change in behaviour the moment you display that you want to be an individual of your own... You have to fit their ideals and comply to their desires or you lose your value.

One detail that has struck me upon re-reading: isn't it always Io who comes to see Misa, and never the other way around? On the other hand, Hase just invites herself into Io's private room every time she feels like it.

last edited at Sep 30, 2024 5:33AM

One detail that has struck me upon re-reading: isn't it always Io who comes to see Misa, and never the other way around? On the other hand, Hase just invites herself into Io's private room every time she feels like it.

Yes, Misa has told Io to come over, like in chapter 6, but all of their meetings require Io's active participation to happen. And speaking of going over to Misa's place, I noticed that in chapter 2 is all messy, with Misa saying it's only a place to sleep and eat, but by chapter 7 she's got it cleaned up and even has nice plants. She's clearly put in work off screen to make that space comfortable for Io to join her in. It's adorable.

Of course in the past scenes Io said that she would like to be ordered around by Misa specifically, but I can see it being extended to the manager as well.

I really don't think Io would have agreed with what Hase demanded of her just because "she likes to be ordered around," since who is giving the orders obviously matters to her: she explicitly considered hooking up with other lesbians and then ran away at the last second, as described in chapter 2. Hase just has extreme control over Io's life and career, the endorsement of her parents,, access to her home, and is physically threatening on top of all that. I'm pretty sure Io obeyed out of fear, not because she's playing along as a sub.

Valid. I think it's interesting how Flowerchild sets up similiarities between Hase and Misa, and I think Hase's order emphasized through the heavier font weight could have been a callback to that.

Like earlier in the chapter Misa criticizes the manager of thinking of Io as a pet, and earlier in Ch7, Misa wants to make Io "learn through experience... just like training a pet dog." Obviously Misa and Hase are very different, but I like how the writing does those callbacks.

in chapter 2 is all messy, with Misa saying it's only a place to sleep and eat, but by chapter 7 she's got it cleaned up and even has nice plants

Really? Ooh, nice.

Damn okay that happened faster than I thought it would. Lot of interesting directions this could go. The barely restrained slap from Hase sure is some dark foreshadowing though. I imagine Io will immediately cave and hook up with Misa again as soon as Misa is able to get them alone together and Io will get stuck in a loop trying to appease both of them until someone (likely Hase let's be real) does something extreme enough for her to make a hard choice and commit to one of them. I also expect them all to destroy their livelihoods in the process because how could they not with their careers and reputation on the line.

Hase is already doing something extreme. Io doesn't want this and doesn't seem interested in Hase whatsoever. Hase's on her way to assaulting her or worse in this very scene. This was a very uncomfortable move from her.

Right, I'm not trying to downplay sexual assault here. This stuff makes me uncomfortable too. I'm just saying I think Io will let Hase force herself on her out of fear. When I say "extreme enough" I mean physical battery on top of the sexual assault, or doing something that would create a public scandal and destroy the status quo. It's totally possible that this is what gets Io to run away for good or abandon her career to get away from her. I'm just expecting it to be drawn out a little bit given that this is just volume 2, but if everything needs to be wrapped up by volume 3 then it would make sense for the next chapter to be as far as it goes before Misa steps in to help Io escape.

I feel compelled to write something about why it's such a big deal to me that Io is clearly portrayed as naturally a submissive lesbian, rather than being groomed into being one: The origin of the word "grooming" in this context was coined to describe pedophiles training children to take precocious interest in sexual acts and relationships, normalizing behavior far younger than they'd otherwise engage in it. The far right jumped on this and twisted it, using "grooming" to describe children being given access to queer media or exposed to queer role models and thus coming out as gay or trans themselves as an act of self-realization. This disgusting association is why so many people (like myself) have fully abandoned the term and use other phrasing to describe the actions of child predators. Neither of these definitions of the term apply to Io, which is important. Io's sexuality is not a corrupted version of her natural state, not something imposed upon her. It's a completely healthy aspect of her, as shown in the downright wholesome relationship she has with Misa. Io is a submissive gay woman, not because of abuse or trauma or deliberate sculpting of her sexual interests or personality, but because that's just who Io naturally is, and that's a perfectly okay kind of person to be.
This is important because there is a LOT of stigma around being queer, around being into BDSM, and just around being a woman with particularly strong sexual interests in general. Io's at a specific nexus of traits that make characters like her almost ALWAYS portrayed as unhealthy victims corrupted into that state. This contributes to a whole lot of shame in the real people who share some or all of those three traits, which is obviously fucked up and really bad. I've talked to fellow lesbians who've been pushed so far by this shame that they feel an impulse to suspect their perfectly normal non-abusive parents of having done SOMETHING that they just don't remember, since they've got these interests that are almost exclusively shown as the result of sexual abuse in the media. I've seen so, so, so many people absolutely terrified of their own sexuality because they have fantasies about being a dom and they're convinced they'll hurt people if they don't bury those feelings. Flowerchild portraying Io and Misa as being perfectly healthy and happy together is a really positive thing that can help real people reading this feel so much better about themselves.

Thank you for sharing this, this is really powerful. I hadn't thought of the manga from this perspective, but yeah, I think that is really cool. Even though the way Io and Misa came together in a way that's messy, with a lot of dangerous aspects with the potential to be traumatic to people experiencing them, the core attraction between them and what they are building seems to be healthy and positive. They fit together well. I think it's really cool that this work gives grace for some of the unorthodox ways that queer relationships can come about when we have to move through the world the way we do.

W/regards to my initial post: perhaps groomer is not the right word for what Hase has been doing over the years, then. It seems to me that she has spent a long time cultivating a poor understanding of boundaries in Io, who she has had access to since she was 14, to allow her to control her and get close to her in ways that are not safe, healthy, or appropriate. It would make sense then why Io, who for the most part is very conscientious and reasonable, approaches Misa the way she does, like going to the address she read on her business card and waiting hours for her to come out of the building. There doesn't seem to be particularly negative weight cast on that behavior from Io, so perhaps it's not connected to her treatment by Hase, and is instead just mean to reflect the unusual ways queer women have to go about pursuing connections with one another--or perhaps it's meant to be taken in the same vein as Misa's pushiness and touching without consent, with the idea that, despite the potentially harmful things we carry with us, sometimes things just work out right, people fit together right, and with good will and mutual care we can build healthy relationships despite it all.

Regardless, I'm interested to see how things develop. This is such an interesting manga on a lot of levels.

It seems to me that she has spent a long time cultivating a poor understanding of boundaries in Io, who she has had access to since she was 14, to allow her to control her and get close to her in ways that are not safe, healthy, or appropriate.

There's nothing saying Hase has been Io's manager since she was 14. Io just said Hase has been with her since she was a teenager, and in context Hase clearly didn't act like she does now for that whole time, since if she did the events of one year ago when Misa and Io first met would have been way less likely to happen and definitely couldn't have happened without major consequences. It seems like Hase has specifically been acting up way more since that night where Misa convinced Io not to take her call after hours, because it's only after that that Io learns for the first time that Hase has access to her apartment and is surprised that Hase is going to drive her to work instead of letting her go in on her own terms.

There's seriously nothing in this manga to indicate Hase shaped Io into who she is on any level except possibly professionally.
I do wonder what the term in the raws translated as teenager was. I'm pretty sure "JK," the slang term for high school girls, tends to get translated that way? But I don't know what other possibilities that might indicate more specificity could be there.

last edited at Oct 1, 2024 5:37AM

Oh damn. Here we go.

Somebody help

I LOVE how the author distinguishes Hase and Misa so clearly. The volatility and possessiveness and advances (!!!) from the manager are clearly and completely unacceptable. While the back and forth between Io and Misa was sometimes precarious... They built trust and care for each other.

I wonder how Io is feeling...