Everyone's loving Ayaka but I get the feeling that in real life she would end up in jail pretty fast.

You can love Ayaka, but don't be like Ayaka ;)

This idea that your love will win through sheer willpower is very toxic, because 99% of the time the thing that prevents your love from happening is the other person, and whether their reasons for saying no are good or not is irrelevant.

Ayaka is forcing Hiroko and whether it's for the best or not is irrelevant too, she should just stop.

I love Ayaka, but I think my love for her comes from romanticizing something that really shouldn't be.

Yeah irl she should've taken the no as a no and moved on. This is one of those cases where I think people would see her behavior way differently if she was a man, y'know

Absolutely, she'd have been labelled a pest a long time ago by this point in the story if she were a male.

last edited at Aug 8, 2023 10:11PM

Everyone's loving Ayaka but I get the feeling that in real life she would end up in jail pretty fast.

You can love Ayaka, but don't be like Ayaka ;)

This idea that your love will win through sheer willpower is very toxic, because 99% of the time the thing that prevents your love from happening is the other person, and whether their reasons for saying no are good or not is irrelevant.

Ayaka is forcing Hiroko and whether it's for the best or not is irrelevant too, she should just stop.

I love Ayaka, but I think my love for her comes from romanticizing something that really shouldn't be.

Yeah irl she should've taken the no as a no and moved on. This is one of those cases where I think people would see her behavior way differently if she was a man, y'know

Absolutely, she'd have been labelled a pest a long time ago by this point in the story if she were a male.

To keep things short, at the expense of details: very little of what happened in this story could work if it were a heterosexual relationship. The dynamics and issues of the story depend on their being lesbian and the relationship type being one that's been historically mistreated and criticized. A comp that could be serviceable might be an interracial relationship set years in the past maybe. It could work as long as the lead woman acted as conflicted as Hiroko and struggled against societal pressures as she did. Been done before.

last edited at Aug 8, 2023 10:23PM

Bruh people out here still shipping Risa with Ayaka after she got rejected like the people who still shipped Guel with Suletta after he got rejected lol

Uhhhhhh that's romantic I gueeeessss

Everyone's loving Ayaka but I get the feeling that in real life she would end up in jail pretty fast.

You can love Ayaka, but don't be like Ayaka ;)

This idea that your love will win through sheer willpower is very toxic, because 99% of the time the thing that prevents your love from happening is the other person, and whether their reasons for saying no are good or not is irrelevant.

Ayaka is forcing Hiroko and whether it's for the best or not is irrelevant too, she should just stop.

I love Ayaka, but I think my love for her comes from romanticizing something that really shouldn't be.

Yeah irl she should've taken the no as a no and moved on. This is one of those cases where I think people would see her behavior way differently if she was a man, y'know

Just gonna point out she's also had Hiroko's friends encouraging and supporting her? She isn't acting in a vacuum of information here. Everybody around them knows HIroko is super into Ayaka. Ayaka has seen firsthand how Hiroko reacts to her. She's been told about Hiroko's trauma. She knows why Hiroko is trying to cut her loose and she knows her reasons are unfounded. She has good reasons to believe that Hiroko is actively running from her real feelings, she isn't just clinging to a delusion because she can't let go of a crush.

Yeah, if somebody says no, you should respect that. But there's nothing wrong with being honest about your own feelings, either. She didn't force herself on anybody, she confronted her honestly and directly. And she was right?

Do you guys honestly think she should have just let Hiroko continue to run from her feelings? Stick to shallow relationships? Hide from her trauma? Go back to hitting on random chicks at the bar?

I almost thought Ayaka was gonna beat up Hiroko hahaha That reminded me that this is a Sal Jiang work

Absolutely, she'd have been labelled a pest a long time ago by this point in the story if she were a male.

To keep things short, at the expense of details: very little of what happened in this story could work if it were a heterosexual relationship. The dynamics and issues of the story depend on their being lesbian and the relationship type being one that's been historically mistreated and criticized. A comp that could be serviceable might be an interracial relationship set years in the past maybe. It could work as long as the lead woman acted as conflicted as Hiroko and struggled against societal pressures as she did. Been done before.

This. This story is explicitly about the fact that there is a generation of older people right now dealing with the fact that they grew up in an environment that was far more homophobic and intolerant than the world we live in now. You see it in these forums all the time. "Why is XX like this? Why don't they just acknowledge their feelings for YY? Nobody cares about gay relationships these days!" There is literally a generation of young people that are currently navigating the social landscape that have no idea what it was like to be literally afraid for your physical safety when you were young if people around you found out you weren't straight. They don't realize the trauma that induced on the people just a few years older than them.

Hiroko was right on that line. She built this department up, everybody there admires and respects her. Nobody cares if she's into women. But she's still pushing Ayaka away, not because she wants to, (she's miserable over it, There was specifically a panel about how she looked like she was going to cry after she turned Ayaka down,) but because she's controlled by an irrational fear induced by a personal trauma.

last edited at Aug 9, 2023 12:15AM

(Hell, this isn't even just about Hiroko and Ayaka. Hiroko's reluctant to accept promotion because of her trauma. Ayaka is watching the person she likes limit herself personally and professionally over this. It's no wonder she isn't willing to stand for it.)

We did it boys, it finally happened

Man I thought this was gonna go full Black & White for a second.

...Kinda bummed that it didn't, if I'm gonna be honest.

FINALLY LETS GOOOO

Amazing! Finally making moves. Handling queer love with societal, professional, family etc pressures can be incredibly complex and traumatic. That's what makes this story so beautiful, apart from the wonderful mangaka amd expressions depicted. It's taken a love story and put an Action artwork to display the intense frought emotions. The outfits and styling are always so cute and on point. Spectacular. It simply wouldn't work as a story about a straight couple because coming out and homophobia are crucial parts of queer love and living that simply arent found in most straight relationships. It started out as a cute unrequited love flirt, and evolved into something much deeper. I can't wait to see the next chapter. Love love love.

Bruh people out here still shipping Risa with Ayaka after she got rejected like the people who still shipped Guel with Suletta after he got rejected lol

It is really weird, isn't it? Especially since they already had their friendship reconciliation and the vibe I get from Risa at this point is mostly bemused fascination at the AyaHiro Trainwreck.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

The artwork is so intense I love love love it!!! And I also love the Story. It makes completely sense to me and feels so unique. I can say that I genuinely enjoyed every chapter so far. This last one was especially great, though it felt a bit like breaking through a really thick brickwall with a - whatsitcalled - sledgehammer (?)

I am really glad that seemingly today a lot of people don't have to deal with this homophobia topic anymore. Actually we really gotta be thankful to our predecessors. They fought so hard for the rights and the change of heart, so we can live in peace or at least left alone. And we should not take it for granted. People can be really horrible and bad mindsets can spread fast.

last edited at Aug 9, 2023 5:04AM

Bruh people out here still shipping Risa with Ayaka after she got rejected like the people who still shipped Guel with Suletta after he got rejected lol

It is really weird, isn't it? Especially since they already had their friendship reconciliation and the vibe I get from Risa at this point is mostly bemused fascination at the AyaHiro Trainwreck.

Haha Yeah Risa is just living for the chaos at this point. Her reaction faces are hilarious. Plus I'm sure her and that rival woman from the bar have their thing by now.

The expressions in this chapter are so raw and abundant.

Also LET'S GOOOOOO.

Is this relationship health? Probably not. Should you act like either of this characters IRL? Definitely not. Is this story mega enjoyable regardless and am I cheering for Ayaka and Hiroko just by virtue of Ayaka's gigachad energy? Abso-fucking-lutely.

I'm perplexed why people keep talking about "unhealthy relationship" when there is no relationship yet :P

Bruh people out here still shipping Risa with Ayaka after she got rejected like the people who still shipped Guel with Suletta after he got rejected lol

I mean it's up to their interpretation isn't it?

Bruh people out here still shipping Risa with Ayaka after she got rejected like the people who still shipped Guel with Suletta after he got rejected lol

I wouldn't go that far. The only thing in common is that both Guel and Risa got rejected.

Guel's affections were incredibly shalow. He treated women like property for a good chunk of the series and more importantly never shared any real positive moments with Suletta, she was even still afraid of him before he left the academy. At best he liked the idea of her. Also a lot of his shippers were just doing it to spite the intended yuri ship.

Risa on the other hand you can see being a good partner with Ayala. I do agree still shipping Risa and Ayaka at this stage is missing the point of this series. But at least they have chemistry I can respect people wanting to ship.

Good job, everyone! Good job, Ayaka! ^_^

This idea that your love will win through sheer willpower is very toxic, because 99% of the time the thing that prevents your love from happening is the other person, and whether their reasons for saying no are good or not is irrelevant.

Ayaka is forcing Hiroko and whether it's for the best or not is irrelevant too, she should just stop.

I love Ayaka, but I think my love for her comes from romanticizing something that really shouldn't be.

Point here is that Hiroko is also desperately in love with Ayaka as well and has been for a while, and Ayaka is cutting through her self-sabotage and fears by being a charging bull. Hiroko is not that toxic as a potential girlfriend (her being a player is reflection of her yearning for a relationship she never dared to have), she's just destructive towards herself because of all that previous trauma. It's not "you'll learn to love me", or "forced sex to spark love", "I'll make you gay/straight" or any of those other truly deplorable tropes.

As for whether they could stay together, I think it is a completely moot point here, even if 10 year age gap relationships aren't the most stable. Ayaka wants to date Hiroko of today, she's not worried or concerned about few years down the road. Hiroko might be, but she's getting the better side of the deal with a cute and much younger girl literally throwing herself in her arms. Even if it ends at some point, at least she'd finally experienced a proper relationship with someone who wanted to be with her.

I also don't think Ayaka has as many false ideas about Hiroko anymore as she initially had, as she's had few bitter moments with her and made effort to learn about Hiroko and how wlw relationships are in reality through other people who are like her and have observed Hiroko through these years.

Nice, some proper character analysis.

DynastyS is a great place to check comments if you want to see some grandstanding and fragility - some of these people really think someones going to read this manga and think its going to negatively impact peoples understanding of a healthy relationship. Its a manga, of all the mangas to be picking apart, this is one of the most wholesome that exists. And, at the same time, their analysis of "toxicity" is usually so fucking surface-level its hilarious. But, thats the queer analysis for ya, helpful to no one, destroys its own allies

Everyone's loving Ayaka but I get the feeling that in real life she would end up in jail pretty fast.

You can love Ayaka, but don't be like Ayaka ;)

This idea that your love will win through sheer willpower is very toxic, because 99% of the time the thing that prevents your love from happening is the other person, and whether their reasons for saying no are good or not is irrelevant.

Ayaka is forcing Hiroko and whether it's for the best or not is irrelevant too, she should just stop.

I love Ayaka, but I think my love for her comes from romanticizing something that really shouldn't be.

Yeah irl she should've taken the no as a no and moved on. This is one of those cases where I think people would see her behavior way differently if she was a man, y'know

Just gonna point out she's also had Hiroko's friends encouraging and supporting her? She isn't acting in a vacuum of information here. Everybody around them knows HIroko is super into Ayaka. Ayaka has seen firsthand how Hiroko reacts to her. She's been told about Hiroko's trauma. She knows why Hiroko is trying to cut her loose and she knows her reasons are unfounded. She has good reasons to believe that Hiroko is actively running from her real feelings, she isn't just clinging to a delusion because she can't let go of a crush.

Yeah, if somebody says no, you should respect that. But there's nothing wrong with being honest about your own feelings, either. She didn't force herself on anybody, she confronted her honestly and directly. And she was right?

Do you guys honestly think she should have just let Hiroko continue to run from her feelings? Stick to shallow relationships? Hide from her trauma? Go back to hitting on random chicks at the bar?

The problem with this "I can fix her" and "she will be happier with me she loves me" is that sure, maybe you're right and it's in the best interest of everyone... But maybe you're wrong and the other outsider are too. (honnestly friends are usually the last person you should ask that kind of things) Ayaka does not read the manga she exists in. She has no way to know for sure it's the right thing to do. Even for us readers you could argue it's not 100% certain.

When someone says no, it means no. If you insist and harass and press on, you're being a harasser. It can be pretty damaging for the person you interact with. I've been both Hiroko and Ayaka and I can say this for sure. :) Sometimes you say no to someone you love, and yes, it means no.

This idea that your love will win through sheer willpower is very toxic, because 99% of the time the thing that prevents your love from happening is the other person, and whether their reasons for saying no are good or not is irrelevant.

Ayaka is forcing Hiroko and whether it's for the best or not is irrelevant too, she should just stop.

I love Ayaka, but I think my love for her comes from romanticizing something that really shouldn't be.

Point here is that Hiroko is also desperately in love with Ayaka as well and has been for a while, and Ayaka is cutting through her self-sabotage and fears by being a charging bull. Hiroko is not that toxic as a potential girlfriend (her being a player is reflection of her yearning for a relationship she never dared to have), she's just destructive towards herself because of all that previous trauma. It's not "you'll learn to love me", or "forced sex to spark love", "I'll make you gay/straight" or any of those other truly deplorable tropes.

As for whether they could stay together, I think it is a completely moot point here, even if 10 year age gap relationships aren't the most stable. Ayaka wants to date Hiroko of today, she's not worried or concerned about few years down the road. Hiroko might be, but she's getting the better side of the deal with a cute and much younger girl literally throwing herself in her arms. Even if it ends at some point, at least she'd finally experienced a proper relationship with someone who wanted to be with her.

I also don't think Ayaka has as many false ideas about Hiroko anymore as she initially had, as she's had few bitter moments with her and made effort to learn about Hiroko and how wlw relationships are in reality through other people who are like her and have observed Hiroko through these years.

Nice, some proper character analysis.

DynastyS is a great place to check comments if you want to see some grandstanding and fragility - some of these people really think someones going to read this manga and think its going to negatively impact peoples understanding of a healthy relationship. Its a manga, of all the mangas to be picking apart, this is one of the most wholesome that exists. And, at the same time, their analysis of "toxicity" is usually so fucking surface-level its hilarious. But, thats the queer analysis for ya, helpful to no one, destroys its own allies

Well, medias do impact our views on the world. Maybe you're not build in a way that stories shape you, but for a lot of people, it's like that. This manga affects me. It creates this idea in me that it's wholesome and positive to charge like a bull when someone is saying no to me and I'm sure they love me. I did it several times in the past because books and mangas gave me this false idea about romance. And I did hurt people because of that.

So maybe keep your petty remarks for you. :)