I'm just here looking at Risa's massive W for asserting dominance over her superior.

Wow, I thought Ayaka would declare she was a lesbian, that I think would had been hmm more appropriate, but to involve Hiroko too, it feels like sort of a public outing other people..not cool. I'd never talk to her again

This isn’t an outing, though? The only thing it tells people is that 1) Ayaka is a lesbian (a public coming out), and 2) Ayaka in in love with Hiroko (a public confession). It kinda puts Hiroko on the spot, sure, but the only way it outs her is if she accepts the confession and effectively outs herself. If she doesn’t, people are just going to think of Hiroko as the target of some other girl’s affection. The only person being publicly outed here is Ayaka.

I could see that, yeah; though, she didn't really out Hiroko here. She only confessed her crush, and Hiroko still has an out of she wants it. People crush on their senpai's all the time. So this was basically that declaration of her being a lesbian that you mentioned, but with some added Ayaka flair.

Still it feels weird. Like there's power if her and Risa both came out to be like 'See, Hiroko, there's nothing to be scared of :D'

Wow, I thought Ayaka would declare she was a lesbian, that I think would had been hmm more appropriate, but to involve Hiroko too, it feels like sort of a public outing other people..not cool. I'd never talk to her again

This isn’t an outing, though? The only thing it tells people is that 1) Ayaka is a lesbian (a public coming out), and 2) Ayaka in in love with Hiroko (a public confession). It kinda puts Hiroko on the spot, sure, but the only way it outs her is if she accepts the confession and effectively outs herself. If she doesn’t, people are just going to think of Hiroko as the target of some other girl’s affection. The only person being publicly outed here is Ayaka.

On the other hand, it is sure setting Ayaka up for some very public rejection.

Ayaka is being very inconsiderate and pushy. Public confessions are kind of awful because they put societal pressure onto the receiver and involve bystanders in drama.
She could come out by herself to prove her point but now rumours are going to affect Hiroko, so she went and landed her in the hot water.
Besides, does she think that Ayaka would immediately get together with her if her baggage was gotten rid of? We know that yes, that is probably the case, but for her it is not certain.

yeah I agree to be honest... I'm not sure I like this development, it's so over the top... I hope it backfires lol...

People should not like or dislike developments, for most part, as long as it is contextually correct. If it fits the character, no matter how crazy or gross, it's good. If it doesn't fit the character, then there has to be a really good in-story reason for it.

I was hoping Ayaka could get some character development out of the rejection but maybe this will be her wake up call... lol. Everyone hating on Hiroko and I'm here bashing Ayaka XD I mean she's cute and all but sometimes she's totally tone deaf.

On the other hand, it is sure setting Ayaka up for some very public rejection.

I predict that'll roll off her shoulders since (after the bar) she now knows for sure that Hiroko likes her and will only "reject her" to save face. She's basically stress testing Hiroko's limits at this point lol.

Well no, she isn't outing Hiroko, I just meant if I was to yell at the world/company that I was a lesbian, which has kinda happened, I'd not mention the other part not to make her uncomfortable, especially knowing how she feels about the closet. I kinda like the go-getter attitude, but I don't see how Hiroko would be like "ok Ayi, let us date now, it's all out there, we can be lovey dovey" ,that'd be fun to watch tho.

Just some night cry talking with a cool mama-san and some boob's contact was enought to repair Risa. Hope she's fine now.
Can't tell if Ayaka's very brave or very stupid, but I can't deny that she really has guts.

last edited at Jun 23, 2023 6:34PM

People be saying Ayaka made the wrong move...YOU'RE ALL WRONG!

Knowing that the rumours started by the bastard back then are what lead to an uncomfortable position,it's now time to smash all that gossip crap once and for all.

Seize the means of lesbian love loudly and proudly!,let there be no hesitation,let there be no misunderstandings,and let there be no one else to get in your way!

Why let society stop you?,grab what you deserve with your own two hands!

Hiroko can try her damn hardest to worm out of this one!

People be saying Ayaka made the wrong move...YOU'RE ALL WRONG!

Knowing that the rumours started by the bastard back then are what lead to an uncomfortable position,it's now time to smash all that gossip crap once and for all.

Seize the means of lesbian love loudly and proudly!,let there be no hesitation,let there be no misunderstandings,and let there be no one else to get in your way!

Why let society stop you?,grab what you deserve with your own two hands!

Hiroko can try her damn hardest to worm out of this one!

OH HELL YEAH

Perfect.

Holy fucking shit Ayaka

Hiroko:
Every mf'er in the office:

Ayaka is being very inconsiderate and pushy. Public confessions are kind of awful because they put societal pressure onto the receiver and involve bystanders in drama.
She could come out by herself to prove her point but now rumours are going to affect Hiroko, so she went and landed her in the hot water.
Besides, does she think that Ayaka would immediately get together with her if her baggage was gotten rid of? We know that yes, that is probably the case, but for her it is not certain.

Ya I really had initially expected it to be "hey everyone in the office I am a lesbian" and then through everyone being cool with it organically show Hiroko that it's okay for her to come out now too.

Oh shit she's gone nuclear

Ayaka is being very inconsiderate and pushy. Public confessions are kind of awful because they put societal pressure onto the receiver and involve bystanders in drama.
She could come out by herself to prove her point but now rumours are going to affect Hiroko, so she went and landed her in the hot water.
Besides, does she think that Ayaka would immediately get together with her if her baggage was gotten rid of? We know that yes, that is probably the case, but for her it is not certain.

yeah I agree to be honest... I'm not sure I like this development, it's so over the top... I hope it backfires lol...

People should not like or dislike developments, for most part, as long as it is contextually correct. If it fits the character, no matter how crazy or gross, it's good. If it doesn't fit the character, then there has to be a really good in-story reason for it.

I think this is just really fitting for Ayaka's personality. Ayaka is exactly that impulsive, brash go-getter girl who goes for what she wants deep inside, damn the personal consequences. If you really wanted to analyze her a bit like she was a "real person", she'd be one of those numerous people with mild undiagnosed ADHD. She has tons of character cues like that, starting from the way her apartment looks like, how she's either detached or in manic or panic mode all the time, or how she's hyper-focused on Hiroko, even beyond a typical crush.

I am not saying I dislike the development - I say my opinion on the actions of a character, e. g. I am not saying that the author shouldn't have done it.

It's like criticizing the action of a villain in a story - there wouldn't be a story if an author didn't write the villain doing something bad, but doesn't mean I can't disapprove the villain

"Volandemort is such a dick" and "JK Rowling should not have written Volandemort" are different stances.

Ayaka is being very inconsiderate and pushy. Public confessions are kind of awful because they put societal pressure onto the receiver and involve bystanders in drama.
She could come out by herself to prove her point but now rumours are going to affect Hiroko, so she went and landed her in the hot water.
Besides, does she think that Ayaka would immediately get together with her if her baggage was gotten rid of? We know that yes, that is probably the case, but for her it is not certain.

Ya I really had initially expected it to be "hey everyone in the office I am a lesbian" and then through everyone being cool with it organically show Hiroko that it's okay for her to come out now too.

Now this would be a development I'd disapprove. The top management is still the same from the time Hiroko was still a newbie. We've seen them. Something like: "oh yeah it's been 10 years and things are different" would contradict existing plot

last edited at Jun 24, 2023 3:46AM

Ya I really had initially expected it to be "hey everyone in the office I am a lesbian" and then through everyone being cool with it organically show Hiroko that it's okay for her to come out now too.

Now this would be a development I'd disapprove. The top management is still the same from the time Hiroko was still a newbie. We've seen them. Something like: "oh yeah it's been 10 years and things are different" would contradict existing plot

Ok forgetting for a moment that this is a story and we shouldn't take it at face value here's my opinion. Saying she's in love with Hiroko is pretty much saying she's queer. She could've said I love women or sth. I agree with the other people that public confessions are very uncomfortable. People in my country here can be quite homophobic as well. I can't imagine a girl shouting she's in love with me in the workplace like that. I'm sorry but I'd be mortified even if I liked her. Probably more if I did. I wouldn't feel comfortable pursuing anything with her because I'd feel that all eyes are on me. It's OK to tell some co workers you're familiar with but announcing it like that is so problematic. Who cares that Hiroko loves Ayaka? This is not high school where everyone's friends. First of all Hiroko might not be her boss per se but she's her senior and workplace relationships like that aren't the best thing ever. Sometimes they can be forbidden in the contracts and could get you fired and even if not it's best to be discreet.

Imo, this is Ayaka’s cue to mature a bit and learn to interact with people in a more natural way. I'd be disappointed if suddenly Hiroko has an epiphany and realizes she was wrong all along. It doesn't make sense for everyone to suddenly be super supportive. Though I suspect now more people are going to start coming out and this will spark a discussion but idk... idk how this can be handled correctly.

Hold on. Does the volume three thing mean we're going to be needing to wait for a while? That there's going to be a pause on chapter releases? Cuz it is technically already spring of 2023.

Ya I really had initially expected it to be "hey everyone in the office I am a lesbian" and then through everyone being cool with it organically show Hiroko that it's okay for her to come out now too.

Now this would be a development I'd disapprove. The top management is still the same from the time Hiroko was still a newbie. We've seen them. Something like: "oh yeah it's been 10 years and things are different" would contradict existing plot

Ok forgetting for a moment that this is a story and we shouldn't take it at face value here's my opinion. Saying she's in love with Hiroko is pretty much saying she's queer. She could've said I love women or sth. I agree with the other people that public confessions are very uncomfortable. People in my country here can be quite homophobic as well. I can't imagine a girl shouting she's in love with me in the workplace like that. I'm sorry but I'd be mortified even if I liked her. Probably more if I did. I wouldn't feel comfortable pursuing anything with her because I'd feel that all eyes are on me. It's OK to tell some co workers you're familiar with but announcing it like that is so problematic. Who cares who Ayaka loves? This is a company not high school where everyone's friends and stuff. First of all Hiroko might not be her boss per se but she's her senior and workplace relationships like that aren't the best thing ever. Sometimes they can be forbidden in the contracts and could get you fired and even if not it's best to be discreet.

Imo, this is Ayaka’s cue to mature a bit and learn to interact with people in a more natural way. I'd be disappointed if suddenly Hiroko has an epiphany and realizes she was wrong all along. It doesn't make sense for everyone to suddenly be super supportive. Though I suspect now more people are going to start coming out and this will spark a discussion but idk... idk how this can be handled correctly.
I'm sorry, I like Ayaka a lot but I hope she doesn't get the best reaction and starts to understand Hiroko's point of view.
Honestly it's very very different in a country where people don't casually say they're gay. Here, I couldn't just casually tell someone, oh btw my ex girlfriend or sth. It just doesn't happen. They're gonna stare at me and be like... "wait, you're a lesbian? Uhh... oookaaay..." Hiroko has many young women who look up to her and are very friendly with her. Imagine if everyone knew she likes women. Well some of them are now gonna be like "uh, my boss is a lesbian, she said my shirt is nice, I think she might have the hots for me lol". I think maybe in a fashion? company in Tokyo maybe they're more open minded and Japanese people sort of mind their own and aren't as judgemental as here I think but from what I've heard it's not the most queer friendly place in the world.

last edited at Jun 24, 2023 5:45AM

Hiroko:
Every mf'er in the office:

I cannot believe you had an imgur URL of the eye lips eye emoji combo on hand just to embed in Dynasty

that's a bold move let's see if it works out for her

Can we give Ayaka some sort of "least useless lesbian" award?

Can't have rumors about you in the office when you have already openly declared your feelings. Your turn, Senpai.

It doesn't make sense for everyone to suddenly be super supportive. Though I suspect now more people are going to start coming out and this will spark a discussion but idk... idk how this can be handled correctly

13 years is a long time, though. Everyone doesn't need to be supportive but the atmosphere around these relationships and most importantly, how people think they're "supposed" to treat them can change. This office hasn't been "tested," Hiroko has just made reasonable assumptions. If most of them are younger like Ayaka and Risa, we already have 2 people whose views on coming out seem drastically different than Hiroko. That already suggests some possible shift in, at least, local public perceptions. Management might not be supportive but that doesn't mean they will have the same power to be as vindictive as they were in Hiroko's past. Last time it wasn't even management that fired Senpai, it was the rampant rumors etc. If the office treats this differently now, even if everyone isn't on board, the situation can be fine.

Even in modern offices in the US, everyone won't agree about social issues but if the atmosphere around acceptance has shifted people can be more reluctant to openly critique, or might have their critique nuetured a bit, out of fear of seeming against what's now considered good. That's obviously not always the case but still. In fact I don't see how anything else could be the case. After Ayaka has come out, having conversations in the office won't suddenly change behaviors. For this to work (and not be cheesy) it has to be that their behaviors were mostly already changed to begin with (cynically or not).

last edited at Jun 24, 2023 7:46AM

I want to see literally everyone in the office come out as gay. Guys, gals, turns out the entire office is full of closeted gays who were afraid to come out because of the repercussions, and now that Ayaka has finally broken the dam, they all follow suit in a massive flood of coming out until finally Hiroko is the only one left who hasn't admitted it. At which point she timidly admits that she, too, is gay, and everybody lives happily ever after.

I know there is absolutely zero chance of this happening, but if I were writing this story that's totally how it would go.