this stories problem in my opinion is that its characters lack believable motives due to a lack of elaboration making their actions make no sense and causes the narrative to become less than convincing as a plausible conflict.

What motives do you want? It's teenage drama. Teens don't need elaborate motives to do stupid shit. That's what teems do. I don't know about you but I can totally related to that.

That been said, it's not like the characters have no motives at all. We know that Yuni's cheating on Nanase because she feels neglected, for instance. People cheat for way less than that, you know? We also know that Fukko is messing with Yuni and Nanase because she's kinda traumatized over her unrequited love for her childhood friend. So there are motives aplenty.

Anyway, my point stands. There's no basis to claim this thing is badly written. It's consistent and the pacing is good and while things are exaggerated for the sake of drama, it's not really implausible.

this isnt about what i want from the characters,its about what the characters need in order for their actions to make sense beyond their so called age which truly doesnt matter at all.these characters would act the same way even if they were older or younger,as the age of a character hardly ever actually make them act their age.

in regards to bad writing:

yuni is "neglected" by her girlfriend so she makes the leap of logic to start cheating as a solution to her relationship problems,and yet some readers claim its because she is a teenager.

fukko was "betrayed" by her unrequited love so she makes the leap of logic to traumatize another person way worse than she was,and yet some readers find this hot so its all good.

nanase is in "love" with her girlfriend so she makes the leap of logic to prioritize her club activities over her beloved girlfriend,and yet some readers claim past trauma is at fault.

this manga simply hasnt truly elaborated enough on the reasoning behind its characters actions forcing the readers to speculate in order to make sense of this mess of a story,and there not being a deeper reason for the characters actions other then the surface reasons causes the story to be very shallow.

Dude, people cheating when they're neglected happens all the time. You seem to live in a world where people's actions are absolutely governed by logic. That's not the real world. In the real world people do illogical shit for very little reasons all the time. And of course it's perfectly valid to have fictional characters acting illogically. It's not bad writing. It's only bad writing when it's inconsistent, that it is when a character known for being a very logically-minded person suddenly starts acting illogical. That's bad writing. But characters acting illogically is not inherently bad writing.

The same goes for the lack of deeper reasons for the characters' actions. It's not bad writing. Some of the greatest literary works in history don't have clear motivations for the characters or are only hinted at and left to readers' interpretation.

this is a manga not the real world and these are characters not real people so i dont agree with your assertions.

i am of the belief that a story shouldnt strive for realism but to be convincing,and its characters shouldnt seek to be relatable but to be understood.this stories characters are realistic and relatable but arent convincing nor comprehensible thus i reached the conclusion that this can only be due to bad writing.

Seriously, why does she even bother going out with another girl if she's going to treat her like a casual friend who isn't really too close? If I didn't know that this is yuri, I'd think that the big reveal at the end of the manga will be that Nanase is straight and needs a boyfriend.

Interesting take. There are many, many yuri stories where a couple is going out but tries to keep their love secret... and in ALL OF THEM one of the main plot devices is how they have to resort to all sorts of tricks to do what they desperately want: find chances to be alone, go on dates and have sex! If one of the girls has a large friend circle (like Nanase) it's common that the friends quickly start suspecting something odd is going on, because this girl is always leaving early and her excuses are always half-assed. It's quite extraordinary that a character in Nanase's position, who just got herself a girlfriend, doesn't change her daily routine in the least and doesn't even try to make extra time for her lover.

Nanase's disinterest in Yuni is very sus. That's not how a teenager who started going out with a cute girlfriend should behave. No wonder Yuni feels better around Fuuko who obviously has the raging hots for her!

In a film, if a guy treats her girlfriend like Nanase does to Yuni, in the end he would inevitably be revealed to be impotent or gay.

Dude, people cheating when they're neglected happens all the time. You seem to live in a world where people's actions are absolutely governed by logic. That's not the real world. In the real world people do illogical shit for very little reasons all the time.

I'd even argue that it's reasonably logical to find another lover when you're just the beard of your official partner.
(Hah, I guess beard is likely not the best term for this, but it really seems Nanase got herself a girlfriend just to pretend she's a yurigirl and belongs in this manga-when in reality she has no interest in f/f sex..)

Nana half assed the relationship. Yuni half assed handling that problem.
Fuuko is the only one going full ass here. She's using them both to get that season ticket for the emotional rollercoaster ride at the italian soap opera theme park. Best character, even if it doesn't say much.

THIS is best comment so far, legit, well that and that French lady.

Also, what in the world is "absurd boobs"??? The non monogamous person said that, like wtf? how are boobs absurd??? xD

Nanase: worst gf ever, or at least a close runner-up.

The girl she's dating asks her for simple things (spend more time together, pay more attention to her, have more sexytime) and she doesn't give her anything. Some things she promises after much nagging, but then she doesn't keep her word. Oh but she expects that her demands be satisfied! "Come root for me at Osaka!" Doesn't she know how expensive that is for a teen?

And she didn't even make some free time to be together after the match. They could have gone to a love hotel, since nobody knows them in Osaka! Actually, after dating for half a year, did they have sex at least once? Honest question. I honestly can't remember.

^That last question, I realize just now that I have no idea either. Nanase and Yuni have been together for a long time, right? So, do they f*ck? Anyone can recall if we ever saw them having sex? Because really if Nanase hasn't any interest in sex with girls (or at least zero interest in Yuni's body) then this relationship has much deeper problems than Fuuko.

Nanase: worst gf ever, or at least a close runner-up.

The girl she's dating asks her for simple things (spend more time together, pay more attention to her, have more sexytime) and she doesn't give her anything. Some things she promises after much nagging, but then she doesn't keep her word. Oh but she expects that her demands be satisfied! "Come root for me at Osaka!" Doesn't she know how expensive that is for a teen?

And she didn't even make some free time to be together after the match. They could have gone to a love hotel, since nobody knows them in Osaka! Actually, after dating for half a year, did they have sex at least once? Honest question. I honestly can't remember.

^That last question, I realize just now that I have no idea either. Nanase and Yuni have been together for a long time, right? So, do they f*ck? Anyone can recall if we ever saw them having sex? Because really if Nanase hasn't any interest in sex with girls (or at least zero interest in Yuni's body) then this relationship has much deeper problems than Fuuko.

nanase was constructed to be an ntr cuck,so she had to be a bad girlfriend,how else would anyone explain the fine tuned fuck ups she has managed to pull off with such high precision.

Nanase: worst gf ever, or at least a close runner-up.

The girl she's dating asks her for simple things (spend more time together, pay more attention to her, have more sexytime) and she doesn't give her anything. Some things she promises after much nagging, but then she doesn't keep her word. Oh but she expects that her demands be satisfied! "Come root for me at Osaka!" Doesn't she know how expensive that is for a teen?

And she didn't even make some free time to be together after the match. They could have gone to a love hotel, since nobody knows them in Osaka! Actually, after dating for half a year, did they have sex at least once? Honest question. I honestly can't remember.

^That last question, I realize just now that I have no idea either. Nanase and Yuni have been together for a long time, right? So, do they f*ck? Anyone can recall if we ever saw them having sex? Because really if Nanase hasn't any interest in sex with girls (or at least zero interest in Yuni's body) then this relationship has much deeper problems than Fuuko.

Not all people want to have sex you know.

this is a manga not the real world and these are characters not real people so i dont agree with your assertions.

i am of the belief that a story shouldnt strive for realism but to be convincing,and its characters shouldnt seek to be relatable but to be understood.this stories characters are realistic and relatable but arent convincing nor comprehensible thus i reached the conclusion that this can only be due to bad writing.

I find these characters really easy to understand and very convincing so that's a problem on your end, not bad writing.

That been said, it's not true that characters always have to be understood. Sometimes characters are deliberately written to be incomprehensible and that's a perfectly valid writing choice as long as it fits the story.

last edited at May 20, 2023 3:33AM

Y’all cringe at in the comments

....yep. gotta love the deep, deep analysis of teenage drama of cheating, neglect, lust, betrayal, longing, and insta-tweeter.

Just passing by on this latest chapter to see what's up with the story since I last saw it's first chapter, and woah tf kind of cringe is this.

hmmm hmph. almost every other arguments, counterarguments, debates, rants, diatribes, etc and so on is still surging on til we get to the end of it. but hey, it's going to get worst.

Friendly reminder that Nanase only confessed because "oh god she's the only girl who doesn't find my haircut stupid im in love "

Yuni: and that's how I met my first ex.

gotta say, Yuni and Nanase will never be together like this. Fuuko is really confronting the two with the hard truths about their relationship and.....while groping and making love to Yuni for good, sickening measure for Nanase to see, I guess... that tactic is out of nowhere but ok, that's what the author is going for then. either way, I can't wait for the next development. the comment sections is off the charts.

this is a manga not the real world and these are characters not real people so i dont agree with your assertions.

i am of the belief that a story shouldnt strive for realism but to be convincing,and its characters shouldnt seek to be relatable but to be understood.this stories characters are realistic and relatable but arent convincing nor comprehensible thus i reached the conclusion that this can only be due to bad writing.

I find these characters really easy to understand and very convincing so that's a problem on your end, not bad writing.

That been said, it's not true that characters always have to be understood. Sometimes characters are deliberately written to be incomprehensible and that's a perfectly valid writing choice as long as it fits the story.

are you sure your perceived understanding is backed up by the stories narrative and isnt simply your own impression or interpretation of said narrative?

i assert that good writing can make the illogical become logical by presenting a good insight into the headspace of its character exploring the reasoning for the strange direction where upon bad writing forces the reader to use their own interpretation to make sense of its characters illogical decisions.

by the way in the right hands even incomprehensible characters become comprehensible as any story worth publishing would explore the mysteries involving such a character.there exists no person without a reason for their actions and since character simulate people there should not be a character truly incomprehensible.

Still no chapter 10 or volume 3?

Only thing i like about this manga is the art rest is meh i wanted to enjoy it really but it's just so... Weird?

^That last question, I realize just now that I have no idea either. Nanase and Yuni have been together for a long time, right? So, do they f*ck? Anyone can recall if we ever saw them having sex? Because really if Nanase hasn't any interest in sex with girls (or at least zero interest in Yuni's body) then this relationship has much deeper problems than Fuuko.

I feel like most of the people in this comment section either skimmed through the manga or just skipped straight to the latest chapter.
Yes, they have sex. Yuni thinks about three distinct times they did it, literally in chapter 2.

You guys should probably catch up with the missing chapters 10 to 15 on mangadex, because i really feel like most people here are talking without having read the entire manga lmao

last edited at May 20, 2023 9:17AM

I feel like most of the people in this comment section either skimmed through the manga or just skipped straight to the latest chapter.
Yes, they have sex. Yuni thinks about three distinct times they did it, literally in chapter 2.

You're talking about page 20, right? when Fuuko asks Yuni about sex with Nanase, and Yuni pictures herself and Nanase having sex during 3 panels.
I always thought it was a fantasy. Like Yuni went "Eh? Me and Nanase, have sex?" and then imagined for a few seconds what it would be like. But let's assume I'm wrong and it was a memory.
It doesn't look at all like she's thinking about three distinct times; more like it's a sequence of 3 scenes of the same roll in the hay. And it's certainly a memory from a while ago (since Yuni has been frustrated for some time when the manga starts) and we know for a fact that in the following 4 or 5 months nothing at all happens between Yuni and Nanase. So even if that part in page 20 was a memory and not a fantasy, it means they've had sex once (prolly when they became a couple) and then zilch for half a year. The case about Nanase having no real interest in Yuni's body still stands strong.

You guys should probably catch up with the missing chapters 10 to 15 on mangadex, because i really feel like most people here are talking without having read the entire manga lmao

Chapters 10 to 15 are clearly a big development arc in the manga. It starts with Yuni and Fuuko bonking at the Osaka hotel (btw a sex encounter totally initiated by Yuni). Then the story goes through many important moments between different characters (my favorite is when Yuni starts crying in Fuuko's arms, complaining about Nanase, and finishes with the words "I hate that bitch...") and it all leads to the final scene in chapter 15, the climactic stairs scene. In this scene Fuuko for the first time plays hardball with Yuni and talks about stopping their affair; Yuni panics and realizes she has come to need Fuuko so much she can't stand the idea of not having her; and then, as Yuni kisses Fuuko, Nanase discovers them.

I agree these are very important chapters both for the plot and the characters' development. But I'm not sure if any of this adds any data to the matter of Nanase's interest in sex with Yuni?

I feel like most of the people in this comment section either skimmed through the manga or just skipped straight to the latest chapter.
Yes, they have sex. Yuni thinks about three distinct times they did it, literally in chapter 2.

You're talking about page 20, right? when Fuuko asks Yuni about sex with Nanase, and Yuni pictures herself and Nanase having sex during 3 panels.
I always thought it was a fantasy. Like Yuni went "Eh? Me and Nanase, have sex?" and then imagined for a few seconds what it would be like. But let's assume I'm wrong and it was a memory.
It doesn't look at all like she's thinking about three distinct times; more like it's a sequence of 3 scenes of the same roll in the hay. And it's certainly a memory from a while ago (since Yuni has been frustrated for some time when the manga starts) and we know for a fact that in the following 4 or 5 months nothing at all happens between Yuni and Nanase. So even if that part in page 20 was a memory and not a fantasy, it means they've had sex once (prolly when they became a couple) and then zilch for half a year. The case about Nanase having no real interest in Yuni's body still stands strong.

You guys should probably catch up with the missing chapters 10 to 15 on mangadex, because i really feel like most people here are talking without having read the entire manga lmao

Chapters 10 to 15 are clearly a big development arc in the manga. It starts with Yuni and Fuuko bonking at the Osaka hotel (btw a sex encounter totally initiated by Yuni). Then the story goes through many important moments between different characters (my favorite is when Yuni starts crying in Fuuko's arms, complaining about Nanase, and finishes with the words "I hate that bitch...") and it all leads to the final scene in chapter 15, the climactic stairs scene. In this scene Fuuko for the first time plays hardball with Yuni and talks about stopping their affair; Yuni panics and realizes she has come to need Fuuko so much she can't stand the idea of not having her; and then, as Yuni kisses Fuuko, Nanase discovers them.

I agree these are very important chapters both for the plot and the characters' development. But I'm not sure if any of this adds any data to the matter of Nanase's interest in sex with Yuni?

Yeah they've had sex, the thing is, if Nanase can't make time to go on a regular date, make a phone call or reply on text, how could she make time to do the doobla dooba doo?? Even if she wanted to, maybe when they did have sex she was picturing Yuni as a volleyball ball.

I'm probabaly part of a minority here, but I feel more sympathy towarda Nanase here more than Yuni. Throughout this story, I sense very little communication between both parties. When Yuni gets upset that her girlfriend is unavailable, rather than confront and tell her about it, she post her frustrarions of social media and ended up luring what essentially is a stalker. Seriously, talk to the girlfriend/boyfriend/lover. Do not expect them to pick up visual ques that you are upset and expect them to figure it out or else they might pull a HUMAN thing and believe that things will work out gradually and they need to deal with other issues at hand. Give an ultimatum if necessary. Say "Hey, I'm upset that the club is taking priority over me and that your catering other peoples affection over me. If you truly care about me, we should work for a way where we can spend more time together without any intrusion. If not, they we should stop being together". No one should ever be in a position where they are expected to be mind reader. That's the kind of thing that make relationships 100× harder than it already is. Always, always, always Talk. You don't need to expose any deep dark secrets or anything, just express your true feelings and show that you want to make things work. Even if that person is constantly smothered by everyone else and you can't find an impromptu time to speak your mind, use alternative communication methods like calls and text, or better yet, make that opportunity by putting your foot down and pull them out of that crowd. Seriously all this heart ache could be resolved in less than 5 chapters if the depressed upset girl who constantly complains about her gf not spending time with her had just properly communicated to her gf instead of having an affair with her stalker.

I'm probabaly part of a minority here, but I feel more sympathy towarda Nanase here more than Yuni.

Nah, don't worry, there are lotsa peepz like you. They all yell the same slogans: "They should communicate! Cheating is bad!" They don't realize none of that applies to this story. Firstly, because Yuni communicated her feelings several times, and Nanase promised to change her ways but then didn't change at all. Secondly, because they haven't had sex for half a year, and that suits Nanase perfectly fine. O_o What she wants with Yuni is more platonic sisters than lovers—like in a yuri story from 30 years ago. No lesbian woman in modern yuri can be expected to put up with that shit.

the show has shown its true colors,this is ntr trash plain and simple.

I'm sure you were not even skimming this manga

am i going insane or has some people not realized that there is a difference between cheating and ntr?

how has the fact that they exist as distinct words not given them a clue of this great profound truth at all?

I DO know what they are. I'm sure you're confused

if you know what they are then what the hell was the point of your first response?

Can you even read? The dude just found out this is ntr/cheating when that was stated at the beginning. Learn to read man.

I'm probabaly part of a minority here, but I feel more sympathy towarda Nanase here more than Yuni. Throughout this story, I sense very little communication between both parties. When Yuni gets upset that her girlfriend is unavailable, rather than confront and tell her about it, she post her frustrarions of social media and ended up luring what essentially is a stalker. Seriously, talk to the girlfriend/boyfriend/lover. Do not expect them to pick up visual ques that you are upset and expect them to figure it out or else they might pull a HUMAN thing and believe that things will work out gradually and they need to deal with other issues at hand. Give an ultimatum if necessary. Say "Hey, I'm upset that the club is taking priority over me and that your catering other peoples affection over me. If you truly care about me, we should work for a way where we can spend more time together without any intrusion. If not, they we should stop being together". No one should ever be in a position where they are expected to be mind reader. That's the kind of thing that make relationships 100× harder than it already is. Always, always, always Talk. You don't need to expose any deep dark secrets or anything, just express your true feelings and show that you want to make things work. Even if that person is constantly smothered by everyone else and you can't find an impromptu time to speak your mind, use alternative communication methods like calls and text, or better yet, make that opportunity by putting your foot down and pull them out of that crowd. Seriously all this heart ache could be resolved in less than 5 chapters if the depressed upset girl who constantly complains about her gf not spending time with her had just properly communicated to her gf instead of having an affair with her stalker.

Thank you man, your comment was a breath of fresh air.
It surprises me how much people are defending this toxic behavior by using these circu that could so easily be solved with actual f*cking communication. All your suggestions of what she could've done are great and even if they didn't work, the right thing to do would've been to break up before going and fucking someone else, betrayal is never the answer and I hate myself almost as much as that girl because I made the mistake of starting this manga and now I want to keep reading it even because I wish her poor gf could get a happy ending, getting away from that scum, but sadly I doubt that will happen since it's obvious who the main characters are

That frustrating feeling when a series that obviously sets out to a be about a relationship trainwreck among clueless idiots fails to depict optimal healthy psychological and socially positive behavior.

last edited at May 21, 2023 7:10AM

When Yuni gets upset that her girlfriend is unavailable, rather than confront and tell her about it, she post her frustrarions of social media and ended up luring what essentially is a stalker. Seriously, talk to the girlfriend/boyfriend/lover. Do not expect them to pick up visual ques that you are upset and expect them to figure it out or else they might pull a HUMAN thing and believe that things will work out gradually and they need to deal with other issues at hand. Give an ultimatum if necessary. Say "Hey, I'm upset that the club is taking priority over me and that your catering other peoples affection over me. If you truly care about me, we should work for a way where we can spend more time together without any intrusion. If not, they we should stop being together". No one should ever be in a position where they are expected to be mind reader. That's the kind of thing that make relationships 100× harder than it already is. Always, always, always Talk.

Yeah this is the way to go if you want a good relationship, and your advice is sound, but you will be surprised to find out most people IN REAL LIFE don't even do this. ESPECIALLY teenagers who can already barely communicate their feelings outside of relationships. I'm most people here remember seeing several couples fail catastrophically in their highschool years, because the people involved were idiots. At least I sure do lol.
If everyone was like this then breakups and divorces wouldn't be a thing.

In the real world, most of the time it's expected that you figure out yourself why the hell your partner is upset. Particularly in asian cultures as one comment mentioned previously, but in the western world too. It sucks but that's how stupid we humans are.

last edited at May 21, 2023 9:58AM

Thank you man, your comment was a breath of fresh air.

Fresh? There's nothing more stale in Dynasty forum than rants telling that cheating is bad. Did you even read the thread?

What she wants with Yuni is more platonic sisters than lovers—like in a yuri story from 30 years ago. No lesbian woman in modern yuri can be expected to put up with that shit.

This.

btw, as per Chapter 6, Yuni & Nanase have been dating for 6 month.

That frustrating feeling when a series that obviously sets out to a be about a relationship trainwreck among clueless idiots fails to depict optimal healthy psychological and socially positive behavior.

the frustration i feel comes from seeing how cheaply constructed this train wreck is,since this story isnt convincing enough for me to believe in any of its narrative on its own merit.

and as far as i know clueless idiots have their own logic which explains their behavior and train wrecks have their own reasons for why they happen,so i feel quite disappointed that this story doesnt reach beneath the surface revealing a more deeper reason for its characters actions,but instead remains a very shallow and straightforward fetish manga.

as for why there exists so much debate around cheating,i would say it has a lot to do with some readers attempting to justify it as a proper punishment for nanase because of her handling of her relationship,or how weird the story depicts the cheating within its narrative as a consequence of a lack of love in a relationship instead of them breaking up.

to end this comment i would like to add that every topic depicted in a story can have good or bad writing depending on how its author manages to express,explain,and explore it.this means that fetishs,cheating,netorare,power fantasy,etc... dont get some free pass for being weak and lackluster in its writing department.

to be quite frank,this story set out to discuss something and failed to do so successfully,resulting in a weak product that is at most mildly entertaining due to its toxicity.

to be quite frank,this story set out to discuss something and failed to do so successfully,resulting in a weak product that is at most mildly entertaining due to its toxicity.

No it didn't, the story set out to tell the story of three absolute idiots who make horrible decisions and end up in, well, the shitty ass situation they are now

If you expected to find social commentary about relationships and cheating then you're in the wrong website

to be quite frank,this story set out to discuss something and failed to do so successfully,resulting in a weak product that is at most mildly entertaining due to its toxicity.

No it didn't, the story set out to tell the story of three absolute idiots who make horrible decisions and end up in, well, the shitty ass situation they are now

If you expected to find social commentary about relationships and cheating then you're in the wrong website

what i expect from every story is for them to at least have personal reasons for their characters actions making them understandable even if you dont like or agree with them.

so no i dont care for social commentary or even healthy actions in my fiction,but i do expect good character writing regardless of how stupid or broken the character is portrayed.