Or have a typical romance, again for the satisfaction of the reader, when that typical expectation isn't Asahi's primary interest?

Why would they end up together as a couple, for the satisfaction of the reader ? This is a romance story. Do the character end up as a couple ? The answer is yes, but the manga failed to depict that properly. The ending is so abrupt that we're never shown them as a couple; at best, we are told (through the confession) that they love each other. But due to the ending being so abrupt, it doesn't really tell much, or anything.

The appeal to realism argument would mean that they can equally have decided to never take their relationship further and act as platonic friends for the rest of their lives, and that the reader doesn't have a right to feel cheated by such an ending. I don't personally agree -- such an ending would certainly be "realistic" but it would be pretty poor, narratively, as the culmination of a romance story, and would be a waste of the interactions the characters had with each other. And, even for people who would be happy to see such an ending, the relationship the characters settle on should still be depicted properly.

After following the story until the end and the evolution of the characters, I feel that the readers "deserve" (if I may use such a word) to see how it ends. There are many ways this could have been shown : they might be going on a date, moving together, one might call the other their lover, partner, or whatever word feels right in front of others, or anything else that strikes the author's fancy. None of those is necessary because every couple can feel comfortable with different things, yet any of those would have shown them as a proper couple, rather than this vague ending. Kissing (along with marriage) happens to be one of the simplest, most unambiguous things to depict characters as a couple, and generally serves that purpose when used in the ending, but it's not the only option.

I feel that this ending correctly addresses the evolution of the characters in being able to properly express their feelings (as shown from the fact that they both confessed), but fails to provide a satisfying conclusion to their relationship and interactions towards each other.

Accusing someone who ignores all the textual evidence of a fairly lengthy series of a failure of reading comprehension is far from being anything like a “personal insult”—it is a reasonable inference from the specious argument being made.

Anyone who asserts that a pioneering Class-S series written in 2003 (Marimite), a slice-of-life workplace series with an on-again-off-again yuri tease (Aquatope), and a carefully developed romance featuring ace characters (Crescent Moon) are essentially the same obviously is more committed to breezy generalizations than to reading stories in their context.

EDIT:

Kissing (along with marriage) happens to be one of the simplest, most unambiguous things to depict characters as a couple, and generally serves that purpose when used in the ending, but it's not the only option.

This assertion seems to handwave away the context of the story and the development arc of the characters. These are ace characters for whom even holding hands is a new and somewhat alien experience; a depicted kiss (or one of the unstated alternatives) would be entirely for the benefit of skeptical readers.

last edited at Dec 8, 2022 6:48PM

Was this axed or something?
That's it? "I love you, I love you too, ok but are we lovers? Not really lol, btw I'm incapable of showing up affection, me too! Lol aren't we just one for each other?"
Kinda disappointed tbh, not even a kiss? And what about the sister's reaction, and her relationship with the friend? What about my long awaited nsfw scene?
Oh well, let's hope for better endings in the future

Holding hands is pretty affectionate for us.

hello yes why didn't this story i supposedly enjoyed abandon everything it's built to end exactly like every other romance story idgi

Ah, a lot of good insight by commentators in this. Re: Hinato's problems with intimacy. Makes perfect sense, the ending now.

I wish authors would clearly state that a story is about a certain label so people who would dislike said label would avoid such stories.
It also doesn't change if they want to hold hands, have sex or just be roommates. The whole last volume just happens, rushes through plotlines that I can only assume had a bit more to them, and presents an ending. The most blatant thing is the sister and the horny teacher just being handwaved "Oh by the way those two are/will also be a thing".

hello yes why didn't this story i supposedly enjoyed abandon everything it's built to end exactly like every other romance story idgi

Because the point is that ace deserve the same happy ending as everyone else?

I really enjoyed the story from start to finish. It really captured a sense of longing and feelings that society doesn't help put into words.

I'm also really glad that the author pretty overtly told us (by having the characters state aloud) that they were asexual. I came to that conclusion pretty quickly about Asahi--that is, I believed her self assessment; however, I wondered at a potential conflict with Hinako seemingly wanting more. In other stories I've read (but more often in media watched), it seems like non-hetero women are often desexualized (like the audience was supposed to assume they were okay being loners for all their lives, no disrespect to those whom are actually aromantic). I'm glad society is moving beyond the left-up-to-subtext. I can still enjoy that sort of undercurrent chemistry, but I'm super appreciative of the folks making bold strokes to show and validate more of the spectrum of queer experiences.

I haven't read most of the comments for this series, but I saw a few. I always appreciate the literature debates and the historical references folks pull. While some of the change and learning is uncomfortable, to me this forum/discussion is evidence of broadening horizons, individual by individual, story by story. :)

Was this axed or something?
That's it? "I love you, I love you too, ok but are we lovers? Not really lol, btw I'm incapable of showing up affection, me too! Lol aren't we just one for each other?"
Kinda disappointed tbh, not even a kiss? And what about the sister's reaction, and her relationship with the friend? What about my long awaited nsfw scene?
Oh well, let's hope for better endings in the future

Are you trying to troll?

hello yes why didn't this story i supposedly enjoyed abandon everything it's built to end exactly like every other romance story idgi

Because the point is that ace deserve the same happy ending as everyone else?

i think (hope?) they are being sarcastic and mocking other posters lol

i really love this ace representation! im glad they ended up together and with no kiss cause they dont feel like it (ofc i wouldve loved a good smoochie but they literally said they dont like that kinda stuff). the only thing was that the confession felt a little rushed :( idk, i would've liked to see asahi being more self conscious about her own feelings or let it sink a little u know.

Or have a typical romance, again for the satisfaction of the reader, when that typical expectation isn't Asahi's primary interest?

Why would they end up together as a couple, for the satisfaction of the reader ? This is a romance story. Do the character end up as a couple ? The answer is yes, but the manga failed to depict that properly. The ending is so abrupt that we're never shown them as a couple; at best, we are told (through the confession) that they love each other. But due to the ending being so abrupt, it doesn't really tell much, or anything.

The appeal to realism argument would mean that they can equally have decided to never take their relationship further and act as platonic friends for the rest of their lives, and that the reader doesn't have a right to feel cheated by such an ending. I don't personally agree -- such an ending would certainly be "realistic" but it would be pretty poor, narratively, as the culmination of a romance story, and would be a waste of the interactions the characters had with each other. And, even for people who would be happy to see such an ending, the relationship the characters settle on should still be depicted properly.

After following the story until the end and the evolution of the characters, I feel that the readers "deserve" (if I may use such a word) to see how it ends. There are many ways this could have been shown : they might be going on a date, moving together, one might call the other their lover, partner, or whatever word feels right in front of others, or anything else that strikes the author's fancy. None of those is necessary because every couple can feel comfortable with different things, yet any of those would have shown them as a proper couple, rather than this vague ending. Kissing (along with marriage) happens to be one of the simplest, most unambiguous things to depict characters as a couple, and generally serves that purpose when used in the ending, but it's not the only option.

I feel that this ending correctly addresses the evolution of the characters in being able to properly express their feelings (as shown from the fact that they both confessed), but fails to provide a satisfying conclusion to their relationship and interactions towards each other.

Removed last to clarify... The initial post I replied to called for kissing, but now it's another option and I missed that part in the new argument.

Character's are real in context to the story and thus have their own agency. Therefore, my point is that there is a difference between finding satisfaction in how others actually are in their own right as opposed to finding satisfaction in our dictations of how other should be in our view.

As for the story, the writing style ends where is does as to clarify the objective of the characters and their feelings and probable development. And this allows for imaginative thinking in how they get there. In classic Japanese literature this is a satisfying ending and of what the author appears to have gone for. We know they love each other and that it's romantic, the rest is up to them and reader thought in context. Many find such ending satisfying.

How well the author made use of that is another story. But to imply that kissing and a traditional date is an option again ignores character agency in context to the story thus they're not options at all.

They address the lover aspect, but when Hinako's fear and doubt of labels and expectations surfaced, the satisfying resolution was leaving that matter to rest for now. The same for Asahi and her concerns or fears with romance/love. These concerns, fears, and doubts kept them suffering, uncertain, and separated. And now together they can face them over time in common upstanding and love and devotion which the moon shows is romantically inclined.

(sorry, I shouldn't be writing with a migraine..)

Accusing someone who ignores all the textual evidence of a fairly lengthy series of a failure of reading comprehension is far from being anything like a “personal insult”—it is a reasonable inference from the specious argument being made.

Anyone who asserts that a pioneering Class-S series written in 2003 (Marimite), a slice-of-life workplace series with an on-again-off-again yuri tease (Aquatope), and a carefully developed romance featuring ace characters (Crescent Moon) are essentially the same obviously is more committed to breezy generalizations than to reading stories in their context.

EDIT:

Kissing (along with marriage) happens to be one of the simplest, most unambiguous things to depict characters as a couple, and generally serves that purpose when used in the ending, but it's not the only option.

This assertion seems to handwave away the context of the story and the development arc of the characters. These are ace characters for whom even holding hands is a new and somewhat alien experience; a depicted kiss (or one of the unstated alternatives) would be entirely for the benefit of skeptical readers.

Sorry for the confusion, the "don't resort to personal insult" was directer to the Uploader comment about chasing phantoms. Pointing out clearly missed context is not a personal insult.

Class-S was a mixed bag of painful reality and social idealism. I wouldn't generalize the genre as one or the other. Though rare, some Class-S did depict sexual/romantic relationships that lasted beyond school.

last edited at Dec 8, 2022 9:23PM

hello yes why didn't this story i supposedly enjoyed abandon everything it's built to end exactly like every other romance story idgi

Because the point is that ace deserve the same happy ending as everyone else?

i think (hope?) they are being sarcastic and mocking other posters lol

Right--it's a little hard to know exactly what series these "I'm bitterly disappointed that these asexual characters didn't have sex" posters are even talking about.

I'm pretty sure that @justforthis was being heavily sarcastic.

last edited at Dec 8, 2022 9:22PM

1. The last part has black around it, I know this usually means flashback, but what about this context?

2. I'm not asexual or ACE, but I'm always looking for something to refer to friends who are (they're thirsty!). Peeps out there who read this, am I missing something, it's pretty much a straight solid asexual type relationship, yeah?

I was actually hoping someone could clarify asexuality for me as I am a sexual person,

The prefix 'a-' can mean "on, in, at", "in such state or condition", "in the manner of", or "not or without" depending on conext. Therefore, the word asexual can mean to be without or to not have sex or to be in the state or condition of sex. Asexuality can be no sex and can be having sex.

However, if one derives some form of fulfillment from sex, isn't that just being sexual regardless of importance and or prevalence or rate of occurrence?

I would have to assume that asexuality is ultimately defined by a state of absence of sex that is innately sustained without any desire for sex and any derived fulfillment from sex. Rather, an asexual person may have sex, or otherwise be exposed to sex, but they won't miss or desire sex after a time of not having it and or when never having had sex?

last edited at Dec 8, 2022 10:31PM

I was actually hoping someone could clarify asexuality for me as I am a sexual person,

The prefix 'a-' can mean "on, in, at", "in such state or condition", "in the manner of", or "not or without" depending on conext. Therefore, the word asexual can mean to be without or to not have sex or to be in the state or condition of sex. Asexuality can be no sex and can be having sex.

However, if one derives some form of fulfillment from sex, isn't that just being sexual regardless of importance and or prevalence or rate of occurrence?

I would have to assume that asexuality is ultimately defined by a state of absence of sex that is innately sustained without any desire for sex and any derived fulfillment from sex. Rather, an asexual person may have sex, or otherwise be exposed to sex, but they won't miss or desire sex after a time of not having it and or when never having had sex?

Not asexual, but I do know how to use google:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality

I was actually hoping someone could clarify asexuality for me as I am a sexual person,

The prefix 'a-' can mean "on, in, at", "in such state or condition", "in the manner of", or "not or without" depending on conext. Therefore, the word asexual can mean to be without or to not have sex or to be in the state or condition of sex. Asexuality can be no sex and can be having sex.

However, if one derives some form of fulfillment from sex, isn't that just being sexual regardless of importance and or prevalence or rate of occurrence?

I would have to assume that asexuality is ultimately defined by a state of absence of sex that is sustained without any desire for sex and any derived fulfillment from sex. Rather, an asexual person may have sex, but they won't miss or desire sex after a time of not having it and or when never having had sex?

Asexuality is a spectrum.

Basically, asexuality means not being sexually attracted to others.

However, there's romantic asexuals, who have relationships, but not sex. There's aromantic asexuals, who have no desire for relationships. There's grey asexuals who do feel sexual attraction, under very specific conditions only. There's demi-asexuals, who feel sexual attraction only after getting to know someone and creating a bond with them. And others.

I just say "I'm just me."

For examples in webcomics, there's Erin in Girls with Slingshots.
Vincent in How to Be a Werewolf who's demisexual.
Fiona in Supernormal Step.
Hannelore in Questionable Content.
Shades of A, the protagonist is ace.
Dina in Dumbing of Age is grey-ace.

Note, the A in LBGTIA2S+ stands for asexual, NOT ally.
https://www.asexuality.org/

last edited at Dec 8, 2022 10:42PM

1. The last part has black around it, I know this usually means flashback, but what about this context?

This story often uses black space outside panels for nighttime. It's nice when you get used to it and I'd like to see this visual cue more. Though it can be confusing if a work also uses flashback-to-black.

1. I'm not asexual or ACE, but I'm always looking for something to refer to friends who are (they're thirsty!). Peeps out there who read this, am I missing something, it's pretty much a straight solid asexual type relationship, yeah?

A queer solid asexual relationship, yeah lol. It was presented really well. Maybe we need an asexual couple tag for when the ace representation is intentional or at least strongly demonstrated. (I suggested it the tag) The two main characters conveyed how they experience love, and they're compatible.

By the halfway point there were very strong implications, at least by contrast with others expectations, that the two main characters are ace or demi-sexual, their way of being won't change, and their romance won't be conveyed by swapping mucus. Hinako was presented as sex-averse, and worried about it. It may not have felt obvious it was something more than "pure" fluffy (or sanitized and indeterminate) romance, because I sure couldn't shake worry I was too optimistic until the ending. This was great and I'll probably recommend it in the future.

The one thing I didn't like is the little sister saying she'll pursue the older friend at the end. I know it's foreshadowed and brought up a lot, it was a sweet final career aspiration, but their chemistry undercut the romance too many times earlier.

I was actually hoping someone could clarify asexuality for me as I am a sexual person,

The prefix 'a-' can mean "on, in, at", "in such state or condition", "in the manner of", or "not or without" depending on conext. Therefore, the word asexual can mean to be without or to not have sex or to be in the state or condition of sex. Asexuality can be no sex and can be having sex.

However, if one derives some form of fulfillment from sex, isn't that just being sexual regardless of importance and or prevalence or rate of occurrence?

I would have to assume that asexuality is ultimately defined by a state of absence of sex that is sustained without any desire for sex and any derived fulfillment from sex. Rather, an asexual person may have sex, but they won't miss or desire sex after a time of not having it and or when never having had sex?

Asexuality is a spectrum.

Basically, asexuality means not being sexually attracted to others.

However, there's romantic asexuals, who have relationships, but not sex. There's aromantic asexuals, who have no desire for relationships. There's grey asexuals who do feel sexual attraction, under very specific conditions only. There's demi-asexuals, who feel sexual attraction only after getting to know someone and creating a bond with them. And others.

I just say "I'm just me."

For examples in webcomics, there's Erin in Girls with Slingshots.
Vincent in How to Be a Werewolf who's demisexual.
Fiona in Supernormal Step.
Hannelore in Questionable Content.
Shades of A, the protagonist is ace.
Dina in Dumbing of Age is grey-ace.

Note, the A in LBGTIA2S+ stands for asexual, NOT ally.
https://www.asexuality.org/

This is a good explanation.

I liked this story a lot but I feel like the finale was rushed...any explanation for that by the author? It was just so sudden

happy it worked out this way. it's kinda rare for ace characters not to be like, "ohh im just gay."

i want to see 100 more chapters of them being intimate in asexual ways. i need some slice of life domestic cuties now please.

I would bet money that if the story ended with them not being ace but just as abrupt there would be whole lot less salt in the comments. Seems like some of ya'll are just hiding behind the abruptness when in reality your problem is with asexuality. At least people like motormind has the self awareness and the guts to straight up say it with their chest.

^^^^Nice to see a Dumbing of Age mention here

It’s been a fairly recent development that authors have been intentionally creating ace (or aroace) characters at all. What was much more common were lead characters reacting against comphet by claiming “they don’t understand love at all,” feeling abnormal, etc., then discovering that they had feelings about a same-sex partner, i.e., discovering their own lesbianism, with kissing/physical intimacy as the standard yuri-genre narrative endgame.

Yuri has been a romance genre, full stop, and authors are still in the process of exploring how to incorporate non-romantic and/or non-sexual emotional connections into a romance genre and discovering how audiences react to such characters.

So, sure, some readers have reacted negatively to the mere presence of ace characters, but it’s much more common that stories with ace characters have confused readers about what kind of stories they are going to turn out to be.

I think Crescent Moon and Doughnuts is kind of a breakthrough in showing an OTP ending up in a deep and mutually satisfying emotional connection without one or both characters having a “lesbian conversion experience.” (I mean, there have been such stories before, but this one seems like it uses the yuri story template for ace characters as if it’s just a standard genre variant.)

This makes a lot of sense to me, and I really appreciate the context you've presented for the series. As a reader for whom the melodramatic romance aspects of yuri are enormous, convulsive, and deeply involving reasons for reading, I have to admit that I kept thinking the series was going to be just an incredibly slow burn towards realizing sexualized romantic feelings––and in that context, I read the characters protests against having sexualized romantic feelings as something that was bound to change over the course of the story (I also thought we'd have chapters of the series coming out for years to come before we got there). As I was reading this final chapter, it dawned on me what was happening ("wait...is this series...ending???), and I was...fairly surprised. In respect of what you said, through, it makes sense that, with the resolution of the sister arc, the confrontation with the mother resolved as well, and the conveyance of feelings of love and value between the two of them, the story was ready to be wrapped up. The important emotional barriers to the two of them having a more intimate, if not a more sexual relationship, are essentially cleared away, so...cool. I think with the eventual existence of more stories like this, I'll come to understand better how this kind of romance might work in a literary context––and I think I get enough out of the story on its own terms to understand it, and to appreciate the characters for who they are rather than who I assumed them to be. I can't really lie and say I don't miss the melodrama inherent in most yuri––but then, After Hours also knocked me upside the head with its ending. I suppose I'm guilty of expecting more sensually-expressive romance in yuri––but, more to the point, I really want it, and hope to see it even in series that aren't ultimately going in that direction, like this, or A Tropical Fish Yearns for Snow, or The Two Sides of Seiyuu Radio (though in the case of those later two, my hunch is that they change direction at one point or another, behind the scenes––whereas I don't think that's what happens in Crescent Moon & Doughnuts). I'll re-read this series when it gets fully published in English, maybe pick up some of the cues I sort of remapped in my head and see them for what they are. It's new territory for me. But thank you for everyone here in the comments who has helped make the meaning of the story more clear.