The issue here isn't even that Aya did this. It's that there is no commentary from the author. It wouldn't be the first relationship that has had a terrible moment that can be salvaged, but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them. I'm not asking for moralizing from author, but some kind of acknowledgement that that was really fucked up.

Honestly, I don't believe this is worse than your standard shoujo smut fare.
There is a scene in vol. 4 which I thought was kinda bad though, so be warned

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 3:52PM

I sincerely ask this not to be contentious with other people (because I found it pretty uncomfortable too), but to the people that were saying this scene was Rapey, how do you coincide that with her suddenly wanting to pleasure Aya?

My two cents is that regardless of Marika's internally conflicted feelings, she told Aya in absolutely no uncertain terms that she didn't want to, and it's not Aya's position to attempt to read Marika's mind, let alone make the decision about her conflicted feelings for her. It is extremely not okay to initiate sex with someone who firmly, repeatedly says no on the off-chance they might get into it after the fact.

Very much this, but then there's also the fact that we're not sitting on the jury for a rape trial, but reading a story here. So rather than passing judgement on the people, it is more about looking at the story itself and in this context, I think it's especially bad that the story mixed what should have been an important moment (Marika becoming honest enough in her attraction to actively reciprocate sexually) with a beginning to the sex scene that is just by all means rape because until that point Aya has no way of knowing that Marika wants to have sex, quite the opposite with her repeatedly saying no and that she's scared, etc.

So my main problem with this is not even that Aya did a shitty thing (which she did), but that after a revelation that should make her more likeable she does this and thus essentially spoils what could otherwise have been a beautiful moment in this manga. In all honesty, that's just tonal inconsistency and bad writing in what is supposed to be a romance story

It's all straight from the LNs, this is how it plays out. Luckily, there are no other rapey scenes in the 3 volumes I've read, but even one is enough.

The issue here isn't even that Aya did this. It's that there is no commentary from the author. It wouldn't be the first relationship that has had a terrible moment that can be salvaged, but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them. I'm not asking for moralizing from author, but some kind of acknowledgement that that was really fucked up.

"but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them"
So many yuri manga which seem to be trying do a nice normal relationships seem to throw in a random at best sexual harassment and at worst sexual assault scenes in and just never bring it up again. It's just treated as an intimate moment or that the pleasure they feel makes them realize their feelings even though a few pages before they were begging for them to stop.

As you said, some kind of acknowledgement I think would be great. Could build it into the story where the character has to look into themselves realize what they did was wrong and how it has caused a rift between the two have to work through it. A possibility for good conflict but no, I still have yet to find a yuri manga that does this which is just a waste. I find it funny how I just kinda expect it at this point when reading a yuri manga. I don't like it but I am just oh here we go again.

The issue here isn't even that Aya did this. It's that there is no commentary from the author. It wouldn't be the first relationship that has had a terrible moment that can be salvaged, but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them. I'm not asking for moralizing from author, but some kind of acknowledgement that that was really fucked up.

Honestly, I don't believe this is worse than your standard shoujo smut fare.
There is a scene in vol. 4 which I thought was kinda bad though, so be warned

Your average Korean pornhwa is all about the rape and toxic relationships, but that doesn't exactly make it ok. It's just something you know going into the genre. Shoujo smut is the same way. It's regressive.

I sincerely ask this not to be contentious with other people (because I found it pretty uncomfortable too), but to the people that were saying this scene was Rapey, how do you coincide that with her suddenly wanting to pleasure Aya?

My two cents is that regardless of Marika's internally conflicted feelings, she told Aya in absolutely no uncertain terms that she didn't want to, and it's not Aya's position to attempt to read Marika's mind, let alone make the decision about her conflicted feelings for her. It is extremely not okay to initiate sex with someone who firmly, repeatedly says no on the off-chance they might get into it after the fact.

Very much this, but then there's also the fact that we're not sitting on the jury for a rape trial, but reading a story here. So rather than passing judgement on the people, it is more about looking at the story itself and in this context, I think it's especially bad that the story mixed what should have been an important moment (Marika becoming honest enough in her attraction to actively reciprocate sexually) with a beginning to the sex scene that is just by all means rape because until that point Aya has no way of knowing that Marika wants to have sex, quite the opposite with her repeatedly saying no and that she's scared, etc.

So my main problem with this is not even that Aya did a shitty thing (which she did), but that after a revelation that should make her more likeable she does this and thus essentially spoils what could otherwise have been a beautiful moment in this manga. In all honesty, that's just tonal inconsistency and bad writing in what is supposed to be a romance story

It's all straight from the LNs, this is how it plays out. Luckily, there are no other rapey scenes in the 3 volumes I've read, but even one is enough.

The issue here isn't even that Aya did this. It's that there is no commentary from the author. It wouldn't be the first relationship that has had a terrible moment that can be salvaged, but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them. I'm not asking for moralizing from author, but some kind of acknowledgement that that was really fucked up.

"but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them"
So many yuri manga which seem to be trying do a nice normal relationships seem to throw in a random at best sexual harassment and at worst sexual assault scenes in and just never bring it up again. It's just treated as an intimate moment or that the pleasure they feel makes them realize their feelings even though a few pages before they were begging for them to stop.

As you said, some kind of acknowledgement I think would be great. Could build it into the story where the character has to look into themselves realize what they did was wrong and how it has caused a rift between the two have to work through it. A possibility for good conflict but no, I still have yet to find a yuri manga that does this which is just a waste. I find it funny how I just kinda expect it at this point when reading a yuri manga. I don't like it but I am just oh here we go again.

Adachi to Shimamura has a moment pretty early on where Shimamura tells Adachi she can't just grab her hand or touch her whenever she wants, she has to ask. Our Yuri Started with Me Getting Rejected in a Dream also does. So it's not like they don't exist, but they handle it early enough in the relationship that it's not the type of conflict you're describing.

The issue here isn't even that Aya did this. It's that there is no commentary from the author. It wouldn't be the first relationship that has had a terrible moment that can be salvaged, but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them. I'm not asking for moralizing from author, but some kind of acknowledgement that that was really fucked up.

Honestly, I don't believe this is worse than your standard shoujo smut fare.
There is a scene in vol. 4 which I thought was kinda bad though, so be warned

I think the problem though is this manga (at least for me) didn't seem like it was going to do something like this. While having a unique reason for the two to act like they are dating, at the start, it didn't seem to be smutty.

I personally really love Gushing Over Magical Girls where the MC does some pretty awful stuff to the other magical girls but the series from the start was about that and uses it to do exaggerated things so I think it's fine in that manga.

Again with Citrus. Personally I really don't like Citrus but that's not for some of the more arguably sexual assaulting scenes because I kinda expected those when I heard of a premise of step sisters falling in love.

This seemed to me to be going as a pretty nice relationship. Over the last few chapters I did feel it was crossing a line but this one just stands out as we just had two awful lines to hear which is Marika telling her to stop multiple times and Aya not caring because she says she enjoys it.

I just feel that this scene feels out of place for this manga.

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 4:04PM

Ohhh, things getting spicy, I did think Aya was not really doing anything with the other girl but just hanging out, guess that is not the case.

Great chapter with some backstory, a very good sex scene and Marika's friends! Looking forward to the next one!

This can go either one of two ways. One I'd absolutely hate and one I hope happens.

Marika: "yep, I called it, what a legend"

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The issue here isn't even that Aya did this. It's that there is no commentary from the author. It wouldn't be the first relationship that has had a terrible moment that can be salvaged, but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them. I'm not asking for moralizing from author, but some kind of acknowledgement that that was really fucked up.

The story does aknowledge it, Marika reminds herself that she could just put her foot down, but chooses not to

It's not the kind of addressing the situation you want but it's there

But It's like the autor saying "here, Aya is not raping her, Marika could just push her, keep liking Aya". It reminded me of that manga, with a long black hair girl that just vanishes in the middle of the story, then a guy and a glasses short hair girl go looking for the first girl. The guy tries to rape glasses, and later the glasses girl call him out, saying he is a raper. Feels like an old manga, and even then, the autor seemed to deal with it better.

I feel like usually manga/anime have a really fraught relationship with sexual assault since it feels normalized for some reason or seen as romantic. cough cough bakarina. since there's that whole 'women aren't supposed to like sex' like thing and other gross things. But also yeah that was uncomfy lol

Citrus at least if you take it as Mei's trauma playing out makes sense in a kind of yeesh way

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 6:33PM

I sure hope Aya has a good explanation. She's gonna need it. lol

I sure hope Aya has a good explanation. She's gonna need it. lol

Aya: It's just a Prank Bro (Gone Wrong) (Gone Sexual)

I heard from a guy hooking up with girls in Japan that some really do the "no, stop" thing during sex only to get frustrated when things actually stop. It's weird and kind of a turn off, like the culture hasn't caught up with basic consent.

since there's that whole 'women aren't supposed to like sex' like thing and other gross things

Yeah this is why I'm not writing off this series wholesale due to that scene. Overall, I didn't like it and I wish it played out better, but this quoted trope is something that both confounds me...yet I see it so much that I have to numb myself to it. It's one of those things I can't think about literally, which comes off even more stark when a scanlator ends up writing a bunch of 'No....♥ / Stop--! ♥' for several pages. It's kind of just a THING, in otherwise consensual h-scenes.

This one hits different for sure, I'm not making light of it, but the twist of Marika being more active is one I'd like to discuss/read about, so I want to analyze more than anything.

Admittedly, I wish some of y'all would just drop the series and move on.

It's nice to see Marika taking an active role though. I wonder if in her mind she's gonna try to reason it as "pity" or something after hearing Aya's situation.

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The issue here isn't even that Aya did this. It's that there is no commentary from the author. It wouldn't be the first relationship that has had a terrible moment that can be salvaged, but it's treated both in the manga and the LNs as just another event between them. I'm not asking for moralizing from author, but some kind of acknowledgement that that was really fucked up.

The story does aknowledge it, Marika reminds herself that she could just put her foot down, but chooses not to

It's not the kind of addressing the situation you want but it's there

Just as Dum Fck says, that's not really addressing the the issue at all. I'd actually say this is even worse, since it's basically shifting the blame to the victim. It's like saying that rape victims aren't really victims, cause they could've just shoved the offender off.

Two lines irked me the most in this chapter:
First the "When you say it with a face like that, who wouldn't pounce on you?" Maybe a person with the least bit respect of boundaries?
And the second was this exchange afterwards: "Even though I told you no...", "You're still saying that?"
Yes, she is, actually! Even that could've been a moment to just say, hey I may have enjoyed it, but when I say we're not doing it, then we're not doing it. But nope, it's just a cute tsundere being stubborn, it seems.

The bdsm claims sort of remind me of when I read chapter 18 of Bad Thinking Diary, where a number of people in the comments were trying to downplay coercive sex as "rough sex". (I'm still hopeful that the author will actually address the issue there though) Just as people have pointed out above, since there hadn't been any talk about brat play or safewords prior to this, it simply is not bdsm. It's just a person forcing themselves on their partner.

That Marika is a brat and Aya is a brat tamer. I did this with my ex. The important thing in BDSM is to have a safe word, which they do mention in the light novel.

I wish that the scanlator could educate people like in the translator notes about brats and brat tamers.

Um, you're free to have whatever headcanon you like to justify enjoying noncon if it makes you feel better, but let's not make things up and then tell off the translators for not appending your headcanon to the release. This interpretation is entirely in your head. They never mention anything about safe words or BDSM at any point.

Partial spoiler from the LN:
They actually do go into talking about using a safe word a little later on in the story. It's not a headcannon, Marika is an actual brat and Fuwa is well aware of how far she can push Marika in bed.

If it happens in volume 2+, it doesn't really pertain to this scene in any way, does it? I read the first LN and there was nothing about this; consenting to more sex at a later time doesn't retroactively mean a rape stops being rape.

As a totally unrelated aside, this terminology weirds me out. Not sure why it was deemed necessary to use a word normally used to describe children for fetish play...

Admittedly, I wish some of y'all would just drop the series and move on.

It's nice to see Marika taking an active role though. I wonder if in her mind she's gonna try to reason it as "pity" or something after hearing Aya's situation.

Yeah, I'm not usually into that thing when one girl is always doing the pleasing and the other is always being pleased but can't never reciprocate, so I liked that scene quite a lot (it also was given more attention here than in the LN so it felt better for me).

"...love from Aya too." I have a feeling the "love" isn't physical with the young one. Especially considering the facial expressions of her and Aya at the end of the previous chapter.

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 8:16PM

I heard from a guy hooking up with girls in Japan that some really do the "no, stop" thing during sex only to get frustrated when things actually stop. It's weird and kind of a turn off, like the culture hasn't caught up with basic consent.

This is a facet of Japanese culture, but what was depicted here has absolutely no relation to that. She explicitly said "I don't want to have sex today" (translated here as 'perverted things', which I don't really agree with, but I digress). That is not the same thing at all as moaning 'dame' during sex.

And despite what mangaka would have you believe, consent is understood in Japan, as much as it is anywhere else, anyways. (Reminder that there is an elected US politician who literally said rape doesn't exist in response to the matter of whether rape victims should be able to have abortions, a mindset more or less shared by roughly 40% of the US population)

Aw lads... I don't think it was a misunderstanding...

I kind of feel like the entire "rapey" scenario can be explained away by the fact that Marika is also literally being paid to do these kinds of things as well, so it's already a (literally) transactional relationship.
Problems aside, still having fun with this.

I kind of feel like the entire "rapey" scenario can be explained away by the fact that Marika is also literally being paid to do these kinds of things as well, so it's already a (literally) transactional relationship.
Problems aside, still having fun with this.

I really don't think the payment makes it ok or better, not to mention that Aya had said in an earlier chapter that if Marika told her no she would stop.

Look, I've read the LNs, I'll continue reading this manga, and I enjoy their relationship, but it's really weird that some people just want to wave this away.

but it's really weird that some people just want to wave this away.

Well, I don't agree with it, but I understand why some other people have this reaction. The auhor themselves just waves it away... as frustrating as that is.