Rly love this one. Also, first time I've seen the existence of homophobia addressed at all in a yuri manga.

It's not very common but there's a sizeable amount that do, to various degrees of seriousness.

I am so tired of this fucking guy. He keeps hoping she'd fall in love with him. I want him dead. I hate him.

Shouya-kun is only trying to cope with his loss with some humor. He had strong feelings for Kaido, was dumped but agreed to protect their secret. Nice dude. His only misstep was threatening anyone who gets in Kaidou’s way.

Edit: shoutout to the translators for releasing these previous chapters in short order.

Yeah that stuff was clearly comedic and silly like everything else in this manga has been. Her other friends might end up being more of an issue based on how they were presented this chapter but this manga is also super chill. Might go nowhere with that.

They only dated because of peer pressure, but peer pressure can be a weird thing where when you actually talk to people individually they were never for it to begin with. I'm hoping it turns out like that, where those friends got swept up in the moment or something and aren't the type to be jerks.

It’s genuinely really cool to see other characters besides the MC figure it all out so quickly and know they’re not the one. Normally I hate harems because they are in the business of saying nothing for as long as possible. But this is about processing and discussing an extraordinary amount of love with a group of people. It’s not interested in playing games, and has something it clearly wants to do, and that opens the space up to plot decisions you’d never see in harems with other priorities.

It’s really lovely, and very kind. I adore this manga.

I agree, it is a really nice take on the dynamics between them. Makes it feel fresh.

I think I agree with the statement that in Chapter 1 the way Shouya was physically pulling on Ritsu was coercive. I don't know that there is a point in drawing parallels to figure out whether that's worse than Yarai kissing her out of nowhere. I'd say at minimum, neither situation was about consent.

Describing Dynasty as forgiving of men in general is pretty silly, as is describing people of misandry for not forgiving Shouya. I think whether you forgive Shouya or not, both takes have merit. Personally, I'm willing to forgive him. Frankly, being cool with Ritsu being gay instead of being into him is already better than what I assume of not just men in manga but in real life. My expectations of men is in the aggregate is so low that this feels like a win to me.

I'm super curious where we go from here. I meant part 2 is going to continue the conversation probably, but I hope the manga doesn't end and we have plenty more to go.

why is this thread so addicted to Discourse

If I had to guess, it's one of the most popular yuri manga of the last few years, which means lots of people want different things from it, which leads to lots of discussions here.

... I much prefer this to when no one is talking about something I'm reading, or if the only thing people say is "I love this chapter", like 90% of the comments under Webtoons...

You mean you won't like it if I start my comments with "I'm here at the speed of---"

As long as you end every comment and every chapter with talking about how peak it is

why is this thread so addicted to Discourse

If I had to guess, it's one of the most popular yuri manga of the last few years, which means lots of people want different things from it, which leads to lots of discussions here.

As a sometimes participant, as frustrating as some of the conversations can be, I much prefer this to when no one is talking about something I'm reading, or if the only thing people say is "I love this chapter", like 90% of the comments under Webtoons. Especially since this is a forum, if we're not discoursing, whats the point?

Honestly, it took a little too long to get here. The cheating has already happened, let's get this breakup done so we can get to more interesting plots.

I sure do love those ambiguously queer stories Portrait of a Lady on Fire and Bloom Into You! I mean, I can never tell if they're queer because they never use the word lesbian. The original Mean Girls must be queer though cause they use the word lesbian on a girl that is straight, but well at least the language is right.

You can do it, mangaka!! Follow the cliché line!! :v
:v

What does this even mean? I can honestly say I have read very, very few manga that approach problems in a relationship with one character using sex to avoid talking about something.

I'm not talking about using sex as an evasion tactic. I’m talking about how most manga follow this exact same trope: A stays quiet and bottles everything up, B stays quiet to avoid drama, A keeps avoiding the conversation, and B inevitably gets pissed off. It's exactly what happened in this chapter, and everyone could see it coming from a mile away. That's why I threw in that stupid sarcastic 'follow the cliché line' comment.

I didn’t read your comment but now that I saw where the sex to avoid communication come from, you are right, and I don’t know why she thought you mean sex

I didn't think they meant sex, I was saying this feels not cliche to me because of the sex. As in I get how miscommunication in stories can be a cliche, but cliche things to me are also about context and surroundings and like details. So the details are different enough for me to not view it as cliche.

Sorry for the confusion.

I kinda think this is going into "the work I wished it was" rather than a critique of "the work as it is". Which is fine, it's totally valid to look at a story and say "this disappointed me because it didn't delve deeply enough into the femme/masc dynamic in modern day Japan" (I think butch is a more specific term and doesn't necessarily apply to Mitsuki, but it absolutely can I just know that's controversial). That's a different conversation than "this is basically a straight couple except they're both girls".

First of all:

I think butch is a more specific term and doesn't necessarily apply to Mitsuki

This is not up for debate.

https://xcancel.com/agu_knzm/status/1956914456694227047 (ETA: changed the link so you don't need X to view it)

In case you can't view the image, it's official art from Sumiko's twitter that labels Mitsuki as Butch and Aya as Femme. Now that we can put that aside.

Hey, happy to be corrected. I hadn't seen that image, I'm not on twitter and just read the manga..

going into "the work I wished it was" rather than a critique of "the work as it is"

You'll have to specify what you mean by this, because to me when I see people say this about a critique it usually means the critique-er is expecting the work to completely change its tune or genre to fit their appeal. I only brought up my critique because I don't think it would be out of the ordinary at all for Sumiko Arai to do write it into the story especially when she clearly labels them as butchfemme - again, it is clear she's fine delving into mature topics (such as using sex to avoid communicating) while still fitting the vibe of the story she has created. But if you don't think this would be realistic within the bounds of the work, I'd be interested to hear why.

It's not about realism or not, I generally don't think this manga is interested in social issues as much as it is interested in the relationship between Aya and Mitsuki. In so far as those two are dealing with something, whether that be as individuals or together, then the manga is interested in it. So Aya's anxiety and Mitsuki's bullying were both issues the manga explored, but the greater societal view of their relationship/anxiety/bullying isn't particularly relevant.

That said if they did face homophobia, the two of them specifically, I think it would be in line with the manga, so I'm also not saying that it's not within the bounds of the work. I've just never had that expectation while reading this. And especially after it didn't show up in the high school years, I'm not sure why it would be more likely to show up in the college years..

That's a different conversation than "this is basically a straight couple except they're both girls".

I don't agree 100% with the OP's (Nya-chan's) wording, but this is just not what was said at all.

If you go back to page 320 it's initially stated by someone else but Nya-chan backs that viewpoint up.

It has become my belief that in the green world of Sumiko, homosexuality or heterosexuality don't really exist as concepts.

It has NEVER been mentioned that Mitsuki or Aya are lesbians, or that two girls being together is something odd or to feel guilty about. Aya has never been upset or conflicted that Mitsuki turned out to be a girl, only that she had lied to her.

Sumiko has carefully avoided dipping into the topic of homosexuality. Their classmates have been surprised when Aya and Mitsuki said they were dating, but weirdly, the taste in music was an heavier topic than homosexuality (!)

There was no real "gay panic", just "crush panic" that happens all the time in manga to characters attracted to each other.

Homosexuality is the elephant in the room for the readers, but it's like it doesn't exist in-universe.

So the relationship between Aya and Mitsuki, as written by Sumiko, isn't queer or straight.

It's a relationship, period. With its ups and downs as we can see in this arc.

+

Mitsuki is butch coded. Aya is femme coded. But they're not "lesbians" in the "real world" sense. Which is why so many people see them not as a lesbian couple, but as a typical straight couple with a twist.

I think I can understand your frustration a little bit. Correct me if I'm wrong but I wanted to summarize: their homosexuality is "floaty", where every other element in the story has a sense of realism and friction - the drama, characters' ideals, how Sumiko depicts the indie music scene, etc, it's only their sexuality and the nature of their relationship that doesn't carry that "reality".

I think this is what makes the series have such widespread appeal. Because lesbian and butch are not said explicitly in the story except for a specific illustration where the words are there (correct me if I'm wrong on this - I don't feel like going through all 100 chapters), it's easy for people to project onto Mitsuki or Aya. (Or they even erase Mitsuki's masculinity.)

Honestly, it's a frustration I feel too. I do believe Sumiko's intention with this story through and through was to depict a wholesome butch/femme lesbian relationship without the difficulties of homophobia, I think it's a tad cynical to speculate otherwise. I think if every queer creative had to factor in bigotry to their work to make it realistic or serious that would be an unfair expectation and limitation.

But I also think an arc that explicitly depicts the realities of a butchfemme relationship in Japan would do wonders for this work especially because of the audience it has created. Maybe if we never went into an adult arc, it would be a critique I hand waved away because Green Yuri was just a wholesome schoolgirl romance, but it's clear Sumiko is fine with delving into more mature topics with these two. So I think it's a fair critique.

NGL, very inflammatory way to word what you said but I absolutely understand considering my own feelings.

I kinda think this is going into "the work I wished it was" rather than a critique of "the work as it is". Which is fine, it's totally valid to look at a story and say "this disappointed me because it didn't delve deeply enough into the femme/masc dynamic in modern day Japan" (I think butch is a more specific term and doesn't necessarily apply to Mitsuki, but it absolutely can I just know that's controversial). That's a different conversation than "this is basically a straight couple except they're both girls".

flowsthead posted:

And yeah it mentions Aya has never been interested in boys, which in a heterosexual society that implies being a lesbian.

Do ace girls have the right to exist in your book?

I feel like you're being argumentative on purpose. In a story with romance between two girls that is both emotional and physical, not being interested in boys implies lesbian. Nowhere did anything I say have anything to do with ace people.

flowsthead posted:

It has become my belief that in the green world of Sumiko, homosexuality or heterosexuality don't really exist as concepts.

It has NEVER been mentioned that Mitsuki or Aya are lesbians, or that two girls being together is something odd or to feel guilty about. Aya has never been upset or conflicted that Mitsuki turned out to be a girl, only that she had lied to her.

Sumiko has carefully avoided dipping into the topic of homosexuality. Their classmates have been surprised when Aya and Mitsuki said they were dating, but weirdly, the taste in music was an heavier topic than homosexuality (!)

There was no real "gay panic", just "crush panic" that happens all the time in manga to characters attracted to each other.

Homosexuality is the elephant in the room for the readers, but it's like it doesn't exist in-universe.

So the relationship between Aya and Mitsuki, as written by Sumiko, isn't queer or straight.

It's a relationship, period. With its ups and downs as we can see in this arc.

I'm not sure I agree with this, but I do get what you're saying. I think it's noteworthy that most people assume heterosexuality still, like with Aya's mom and her friends. And the manga has tons of queer metaphor in the idea of not fitting in with others both in appearance and with music.

It's hard to tell Mitsuki's sexuality, but from their character bios in 9.1 it's a pretty strong implication that Aya is a lesbian.

And I would argue that normalizing being queer is in itself a queer story. And Sumiko herself identifies it as a queer story in interviews such as this one: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2025-06-04/rockin-out-with-sumiko-arai-the-guy-she-was-interested-in-wasnt-a-guy-at-all-manga-creator/.223419

There are also early parts of the manga that I feel are a little ambiguous as to whether Aya is dealing with the fact that she fell for a girl. Like in chapter 27 right after the first time Mitsuki plays a song for her, Aya is like "huh so we're just friends" and immediately gets flustered by Mitsuki which to me reads as "omg I'm so gay for her". And Mitsuki's mini arc of feeling jealous of "onii-chan" feels like a subtle way to approach the "you only liked me when you thought I was a boy" aspect to it.

I mean, I'll just say it's arguable. I'm not saying my perspective is true, just this is how I read the manga.

All the awkward moments can be slated to "teens having a crush". Gender has never been an issue in term of relationship. Just in term of misunderstanding.

True, the metaphors are there, of course. In first place is the music as a "I have different tastes than the other girls/I don't like mainstream music like I'm supposed to". But it stays at the level of metaphors. Homosexuality or homophobia are never really present. Only their ghosts.

As for the implication that Aya is a lesbian, it just mentions that she has never really been interested in boys. But it doesn't mean she has ever been interested in girls either.

Mitsuki is butch coded. Aya is femme coded. But they're not "lesbians" in the "real world" sense. Which is why so many people see them not as a lesbian couple, but as a typical straight couple with a twist.

Imagine Mitsuki comes out as trans. Then the yuri tag flies out the window. It was never yuri.

So your argument is, imagine if this was a different story then it's not yuri?

And who are these so many people that believe they're not lesbians, or for that matter why would that matter. "So many people" can still be wrong.

It's a sapphic story with two women who are in a relationship, by definition that is queer. It is also by definition homosexual. This part of the argument is a crazy take to me. You're saying a story can't be queer if there's no homophobia in it? If they don't explicitly use the term "lesbian" it can't be queer?

And yeah it mentions Aya has never been interested in boys, which in a heterosexual society that implies being a lesbian. The only time she was interested in someone masc-coded was with a woman. And hey, in this manga she is interested in a girl, the bio doesn't have to mention it because it's the literal story we are reading.

It has become my belief that in the green world of Sumiko, homosexuality or heterosexuality don't really exist as concepts.

It has NEVER been mentioned that Mitsuki or Aya are lesbians, or that two girls being together is something odd or to feel guilty about. Aya has never been upset or conflicted that Mitsuki turned out to be a girl, only that she had lied to her.

Sumiko has carefully avoided dipping into the topic of homosexuality. Their classmates have been surprised when Aya and Mitsuki said they were dating, but weirdly, the taste in music was an heavier topic than homosexuality (!)

There was no real "gay panic", just "crush panic" that happens all the time in manga to characters attracted to each other.

Homosexuality is the elephant in the room for the readers, but it's like it doesn't exist in-universe.

So the relationship between Aya and Mitsuki, as written by Sumiko, isn't queer or straight.

It's a relationship, period. With its ups and downs as we can see in this arc.

I'm not sure I agree with this, but I do get what you're saying. I think it's noteworthy that most people assume heterosexuality still, like with Aya's mom and her friends. And the manga has tons of queer metaphor in the idea of not fitting in with others both in appearance and with music.

It's hard to tell Mitsuki's sexuality, but from their character bios in 9.1 it's a pretty strong implication that Aya is a lesbian.

And I would argue that normalizing being queer is in itself a queer story. And Sumiko herself identifies it as a queer story in interviews such as this one: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2025-06-04/rockin-out-with-sumiko-arai-the-guy-she-was-interested-in-wasnt-a-guy-at-all-manga-creator/.223419

There are also early parts of the manga that I feel are a little ambiguous as to whether Aya is dealing with the fact that she fell for a girl. Like in chapter 27 right after the first time Mitsuki plays a song for her, Aya is like "huh so we're just friends" and immediately gets flustered by Mitsuki which to me reads as "omg I'm so gay for her". And Mitsuki's mini arc of feeling jealous of "onii-chan" feels like a subtle way to approach the "you only liked me when you thought I was a boy" aspect to it.

I mean, I'll just say it's arguable. I'm not saying my perspective is true, just this is how I read the manga.

last edited at May 17, 2026 11:25AM

You can do it, mangaka!! Follow the cliché line!! :v
:v

What does this even mean? I can honestly say I have read very, very few manga that approach problems in a relationship with one character using sex to avoid talking about something.

It's just the new "logical fallacy." Overused and misused for the same reasons as back then.

BTW, where is your PFP from?

Ahh yes, "philosophy 101", "cliche", "unrealistic", etc. all overused and misunderstood.

PFP is from Tower of God. One of the characters in it is Endorsi (or Androssi depending on translation). It's not yuri, but I use it pretty consistently online. She's kind of a psycho and in that scene had just finished talking about murdering a bunch of people (in a society that explicitly allows that) and I kind of love her for how unapologetic she is about it all. I'm underselling the scene a bit, I think the dialogue and characterization is really good in it. The line she uses in the uncropped image is "I ate them" with that grin. I like her style, and I think she's really cute.

You can do it, mangaka!! Follow the cliché line!! :v
:v

What does this even mean? I can honestly say I have read very, very few manga that approach problems in a relationship with one character using sex to avoid talking about something.

last edited at May 17, 2026 10:41AM

This is good. Aya is expressing herself, if kinda of in a shitty way, but she's right, Mitsuki can't take status quos for granted. She should have learned that lesson in high school with the prom. Instead, like for many of us, she only learned it situationally and needs to relearn it in a new context.

As a vibe, as interesting history, this was a lovely manga. But in terms of plot and character, it’s kind of disappointing. I think if this was a longer manga, then the vibes might have carried it for me into something better, but being as short as it is, it’s just not enough. 2/5

Breaking News: Young Chinese girl discovers the concept of lesbians.

To be fair, both sisters are pretty young, I think anyone would be shocked by the idea that your sister you have lived with alone for most of your life was married in the past.

The implication I thought was that Elysia's people were subjects, vassals, or a conquered people to Rachel's Empire. So as a saint Elysia had a duty to give herself to someone from the Empire for mana. Elysia could have chosen this willingly for many reasons, a) if she does it for Rachel no one else needs to, b) she's less likely to be harmed or killed by being useful, c) other mana users could treat her worse, etc. That she also ended up liking Rachel is a separate issue because that is definitely not how their relationship started and from Rachel's perspective, there's no way she would assume that Elysia's feelings had changed.

But also it's hilarious that Rachel saw a marriage and thought "close enough". Maybe the worst thing is that when Xiya hears what she told her sister she will once again misinterpret how Rachel saw their previous relationship.

last edited at May 15, 2026 5:34AM

so Ms Shiratori has a history of falling for minors huh lol

That's not how I interpreted it. I saw it as either she has had students falling for her before because she's been too friendly, or she's the student in her memory that fell for a teacher and knows how painful it is to be rejected so she doesn't want to do anything to encourage students as a teacher.

YAY for communication! I can't believe this is it. Surely there's an epilogue, right?? Right???

I liked the ending. Whatever their relationship was (between the guy and Mao) it doesn't matter so I don't mind not getting a direct answer

Also, this is prolly a hot take, but unless there's more and it's obvious they're dating, then Yuri doesn't fit this, it's more along the Subtext line.

Aside from Mao being straight, it seems like Nina doesn't fully know of what she feels for Mao is romantic in nature, but she knows those feelings are strong, so I fr do think Subtext fits best, if not Yuri crush.

But I'll wait until the status changes from "on going" to "completed" maybe I'll be wrong and the Yuri tag does fit

This is how I felt, but it's definitely yuri in the original Japanese meaning of the word which is relationships between girls. The whole manga is about the relationship between Mao and Nina, so it doesn't have to be gay to be yuri.

Yeah, but I think for our purposes we'd normally call it subtext here, or the yuri tag would be a little too broad. This series is also tagged romance, so someone might get the wrong assumption going in. We don't have a yuri friendship tag, I don't think. That's me, though.

Of course, you're totally right about our expectations, I would usually assume that if a work is tagged yuri early on here that it was tagged that way when it was originally published, which doesn't necessarily translate to sapphic.

Honestly, I think I'm disappointed. It's weird to say because if Nina had just been straight up gay and in love with Mao then I think there is a stronger contrast of feelings between Mao's insecurity and Nina's fear and vulnerability. But if it's just both of them being insecure about different things, I don't think the manga does a good job exploring that in 7 chapters. Insecurity can lead to a very deep well of plot and character interactions, and this felt a little too simple to me, but with the potential for something more.

YAY for communication! I can't believe this is it. Surely there's an epilogue, right?? Right???

I liked the ending. Whatever their relationship was (between the guy and Mao) it doesn't matter so I don't mind not getting a direct answer

Also, this is prolly a hot take, but unless there's more and it's obvious they're dating, then Yuri doesn't fit this, it's more along the Subtext line.

Aside from Mao being straight, it seems like Nina doesn't fully know of what she feels for Mao is romantic in nature, but she knows those feelings are strong, so I fr do think Subtext fits best, if not Yuri crush.

But I'll wait until the status changes from "on going" to "completed" maybe I'll be wrong and the Yuri tag does fit

This is how I felt, but it's definitely yuri in the original Japanese meaning of the word which is relationships between girls. The whole manga is about the relationship between Mao and Nina, so it doesn't have to be gay to be yuri.

While this probably is just Rachel's fumbling ass being a dumdum, I could see an argument for her thinking Xiya doesn't really like her and would never have done anything if it wasn't for the mana transfer, and not wanting to kiss because it wouldn't be geniune. Which, you know, still a dumdum, just in a different way.

We had a huge, not argument per se, but discussion about this in the Dex comments. Opinions are varied as various levels of dumdum, but all are agreed that more communications is needed.