these kind of story needs more attention tbh, and takatou is a good friend, i hope they're all happy

(Thanks to Stan and Kirin-kun for doing some legwork on this.) One thing that's really cool about this is the cast of people behind it. It was published in Shounen Jump+, a web magazine that could be said to be the slightly more mature version of Shounen Jump. Without a doubt, a lot of ordinary Shounen Jump readers are going to read this, too.

Tooda Oto, who gets the artist credits, is relatively new as a primary artist; they were a noted assistant on the popular shounen series, Fire Punch and have just one other credit as a primary artist. Yuki Suetsugui, who gets the writing credits, is the author/artist of the mega-hit shoujo series, Chihayafuru. Tokiumi Yui, who gets the scenario writing credits, is probably best known to Western folks for writing the LN adaptation of Your Lie in April. She's a noted (adaptation) writer in her own right. All three of them collaborated on the recent Chihayafuru: Middle School Arc spin-off, in very similar roles.

...which is all to say, in spite of the newish artist, this is a notable magazine with notable names writing a pretty real trans story. I've no idea what kind of precedent there is for this, but I was really pleased to take note of it, anyway.

Oh wow that is actually pretty impressive and cool. Thanks for that info.

Awww best homie award, we really need more people like him in this world

Oh man I definitely can relate. Gender dysphoria ain't fun to deal with at all, 'specially if you dont have a support group and without anyone there to even just listen it gives that feeling like if the world is against you. Good thing he still went to get the surgery after that talk with the dad cause the amount of anger, sadness, dissapointment, and most of all the dysphoria I felt from that scene... I've been there too so I get it. Thankfully I've gone through hrt and I'm now a happy, bearded dude with so much to look forward.

Also Takatou is like the most supporting friend I ever seen. The true mvp of this story.

wait why was Takatou wearing a suit though

This seems like a cut and dry case of internalized misogyny, ngl. She grew up around a hyper-masculine dad -- who she probably idealized -- and decided she wanted to be just like him ( spend time with him, basic parent-child stuff ), so she became a guy. He probably wanted to escape the whole "Women must not hunt and women must be pretty and women must marry" crap too by transitioning.

I can sympathize as a woman who thought she was a man ( or @ least "non-binary" ) all throughout middle - high school...I too wanted to discard my breasts that dudes couldn't keep leering @, and stop my periods because I so Desperately wanted to avoid the path I thought I HAD to take bc I was born with a vagoo ( e.g. settle down with a man, have kids, etc. etc. etc. ), and it didn't help that I was more focused on being myself than what society says womanhood IS versus what it actually is, so I was disqualified as a woman...and my mind hopped to "oh so I must be a man right?". That's a mind-fuck but gender shit is dumb.

Not trying to invalidate him or anything, I think people can live as they want -- if being trans makes you happy then Be Trans -- I'm just offering another perspective.

I also think someone said it already, but if there weren't such strict gender roles that he was forced thru as a woman, then he probably wouldn't have became trans in the first place...I mean that's generally why it happens, you're conditioned into hating your sex because your bits are inextricable from how you must present, in modern society.

This is such an essay-post, but it gave me some real thots (tm).

last edited at May 19, 2021 2:05PM

This seems like a cut and dry case of internalized misogyny, ngl. She grew up around a hyper-masculine dad -- who she probably idealized -- and decided she wanted to be just like him ( spend time with him, basic parent-child stuff ), so she became a guy. He probably wanted to escape the whole "Women must not hunt and women must be pretty and women must marry" crap too by transitioning.

I can sympathize as a woman who thought she was a man ( or @ least "non-binary" ) all throughout middle - high school...I too wanted to discard my breasts that dudes couldn't keep leering @, and stop my periods because I so Desperately wanted to avoid the path I thought I HAD to take bc I was born with a vagoo ( e.g. settle down with a man, have kids, etc. etc. etc. ), and it didn't help that I was more focused on being myself than what society says womanhood IS versus what it actually is, so I was disqualified as a woman...and my mind hopped to "oh so I must be a man right?". That's a mind-fuck but gender shit is dumb.

Not trying to invalidate him or anything, I think people can live as they want -- if being trans makes you happy then Be Trans -- I'm just offering another perspective.

I also think someone said it already, but if there weren't such strict gender roles that he was forced thru as a woman, then he probably wouldn't have became trans in the first place...I mean that's generally why it happens, you're conditioned into hating your sex because your bits are inextricable from how you must present, in modern society.

This is such an essay-post, but it gave me some real thots (tm).

First of all this character only uses he/him so stop misgendering him by calling him by she/her. Second of all you are in fact invalidating literally any trans persons existence the minute you misgender them or deadname them, also you went into a whole rant on how he basically is just a women with internalized misogyny and that's not whats happening here at all. He is a trans man, the person who made this maga is also trans themselves, he is supposed to be written to be trans not a cis women with misogyny problems. Third of all, he was never a women, he literally stated as a kid that he was always a man he just had to see other trans people like him to really understand that its okay to be trans. Forth of all, he didn't just "become a guy" because of his father, like I said earlier he literally states as a kid that hes a boy from his own thoughts and feelings. And lastly, shut the hell up about trans people if you're going to give a trash take. Edit: also whats up with you putting non-binary in """"" <--- these things. Non-binary people are real and very much trans as well.

last edited at May 19, 2021 10:22PM

Forth of all, he didn't just "become a guy" because of his father, like I said earlier he literally states as a kid that hes a boy from his own thoughts and feelings.

Read the manga again. He only started calling himself a man after dad told him girls couldn't go hunting/to "be a good girl and stay at home [sic]". If dad had been accepting of him as a woman who enjoyed masculine hobbies...I mean, I keep my point, I don't think Chiaki would've transitioned.

And I'm ex-trans myself...that's the entire point of me making my comment, I saw a lot of myself in this story. I could've been the one to go through breast removal and SRS, or hop on hormone therapy. I just stopped it though because I realized my dysphoria was borne of......misogyny. Hell, I deal with dysphoria now, but I understand I can't escape it by simply transitioning.

I do roughly understand that some trans people are born with chemical imbalances in their brains or whatever that make them feel their sex is wrong, but this doesn't appear to be one of those situations!

Non-binary people are real and very much trans as well.

I don't get how you can't "feel either gender", when gender is just a bundle of stereotypes people want you to act through, dependent on your sex; I also hate the concept of gender essentialism, so I dislike the idea of "non-binary" (which seems entirely based on gender essentialism). I bought into it when I was younger, but I'm older now and more critical of these things.

Of course, people can ID as what they want. I don't care if their pronouns are fae/fem or whatever, but it does make me squint.

last edited at May 20, 2021 1:34PM

"I'm not invalidating him, but he's not valid."

Look, your experience is yours, okay? Not anyone else's, real or fictional. This is coming from a cisgender woman here, so pay attention: you are not anyone else but you. You're not in anyone else's head. What if someone started saying that you're a coward and a weakling who stopped transition because you're afraid to face the consequences?

If that's not true, that would offend you horribly right? But how could you get through to someone else that transition really wasn't right for you if that someone else did transition and it was right for them? Because if they act as solipsistic as you're being now, they'd assume that there was no way you were being honest with yourself.

Do you see how this works?

This thread is such a predictable goldmine.

"I'm not invalidating him, but he's not valid."

I don't see where you got that one from.

Look, your experience is yours, okay? Not anyone else's, real or fictional.

We are literally talking about a literary character. Literary characters are by definition open to interpretation, they even require it. Her interpretation of the character is quite well reasoned and grounded in the story (actions, words and circumstances), so I don't really see how it's any less valid than someone else's.

What if someone started saying that you're a coward and a weakling who stopped transition because you're afraid to face the consequences?
If that's not true, that would offend you horribly right? But how could you get through to someone else that transition really wasn't right for you if that someone else did transition and it was right for them? Because if they act as solipsistic as you're being now, they'd assume that there was no way you were being honest with yourself.

They'd also be a real person dealing with a real person, not interpreting a fictional character.

It's easy to be inside of Chiaki's head though, considering he isn't real, and this is a story that at length explores their thoughts and etc. I assume it isn't above discussion, else I don't think we'd be able to post here in its...discussion thread. Making assumptions about actual, living breathing people is rude, but once again: this isn't a real, actual person. It's a story.

Also don't see anywhere in my post where I stated the character wasn't trans.

Edit: Got in like five minutes after @Zormau. Thanks for understanding!

last edited at May 20, 2021 3:26PM

Forth of all, he didn't just "become a guy" because of his father, like I said earlier he literally states as a kid that hes a boy from his own thoughts and feelings.

Read the manga again. He only started calling himself a man after dad told him girls couldn't go hunting/to "be a good girl and stay at home [sic]". If dad had been accepting of him as a woman who enjoyed masculine hobbies...I mean, I keep my point, I don't think Chiaki would've transitioned.

And I'm ex-trans myself...that's the entire point of me making my comment, I saw a lot of myself in this story. I could've been the one to go through breast removal and SRS, or hop on hormone therapy. I just stopped it though because I realized my dysphoria was borne of......misogyny. Hell, I deal with dysphoria now, but I understand I can't escape it by simply transitioning.

I do roughly understand that some trans people are born with chemical imbalances in their brains or whatever that make them feel their sex is wrong, but this doesn't appear to be one of those situations!

Non-binary people are real and very much trans as well.

I don't get how you can't "feel either gender", when gender is just a bundle of stereotypes people want you to act through, dependent on your sex; I also hate the concept of gender essentialism, so I dislike the idea of "non-binary" (which seems entirely based on gender essentialism). I bought into it when I was younger, but I'm older now and more critical of these things.

Of course, people can ID as what they want. I don't care if their pronouns are fae/fem or whatever, but it does make me squint.

I mean this is the most sincere way possible to both you and to that other person defending you. Absolutely go fuck yourselves transphobes.

If anyone wants to keep spouting bigotry like himejoshis and if you're someone who wants to defend transphobic ideology like zormau- I recommend not reading any story having to do with trans characters fictional or not because nobody on this earth wants to hear a transphobic viewpoint of a self proclaimed ex-trans cis dipshit who thinks they have any right to come onto a pretty trans positive thread with a lot of good insight only to find bigots like her spouting complete anti-trans rhetoric. How about go reevaluate your unwanted transphobic views first himejoshis before commenting on a manga focused on a trans character that is in fact trans and not any of the shit you want him to be. The audacity of someone who is anti-trans reading a manga made by a trans person only to act like the main character whos a trans man is a cis women with internalized misogyny is so fucking funny to the point that it's pathetic. If trans people bother you so much maybe get therapy you weirdo.

last edited at May 24, 2021 1:47PM

lol ^

last edited at May 25, 2021 9:51PM

wait why was Takatou wearing a suit though

Takatou fuckin' sold out. He nows works just twelve hours a week - exclusively on investor calls. Only agrees to film trips with his high-school homie anymore so he can feel "close to the common man".

No but tbh Takatou seems like a real one.

last edited at Jun 12, 2021 9:47PM

"I want to die as my own gender" really hit me god damn

and to wade into the waters on this discussion, I am a trans woman and I very much do not fit into what people would consider femme. I never was a person who played with dolls or wanted to wear make up or anything like that. Some of my trans friends are like that, not really feeling beholden to the stereotypes of their gender or not. Some of them fit it to a T. I think both contain elements of self fulfilling doubt, especially with traditional gender roles present in a lot of the world. Growing up I often thought I couldn't be a woman because I didn't want to do anything traditionally feminine. My friends who fit into that role would just wonder if they were just fulfilling a bad stereotype, or falling into ideas of what someone of a gender can do.

Reading this I see someone who from an early age realized who he is and was constantly reminded that he is not seen as the person he is. This is displayed in how the internet sees him, how his dad and mother viewed him and even in how his own body betrays him with having his first period. The sexism and expectation put onto him for sure make his existence harder and his want to break out of himself more but he is a person who looked at a trans person and saw himself and I don't think that's something I can just ascribe to someone wanting to escape sexism. Also the fact that he hid the fact for years and still started going through for only his personal fully expecting his dad to not see him as a man shows how serious it is to him.

Nevri posted:

I understand being touchy on the subject and having to deal with people who try to attack or erase you all the time, but don't you think you guys are taking it a bit too far? Nobody from people who expressed their doubts about story said that trauma makes you trans or tried to excuse trans people existing. Those comments were actually very civil and only pointing out story relied heavily on showing Chiaki's dysphoria through social pressure and norms, rather than his own discomfort with his body. I can see where those commenters are coming from, as line between not fitting into stereotypes and not identifying with your assigned gender can be very thin. That's what puberty is for. Having conflicted feelings about one's own identity and the way other perceive you is a common experience when you're still in process of figuring out yourself. Some people go through phase when they think they want to be opposite gender, but over time they come to realize they're actually fine the way they are and might even love being their assigned gender.

My point is, those people clearly just weren't sold on the premise this story sold and had their own interpretation of it, which is completely valid. Just because story is about trans issues it doesn't mean it has to be a good story or even accurate for that matter. Especially when you're unfamiliar or not as knowledge about subject, some things might be easy to miss or not as clear as to other people. When I read it first time I just read it with clear understanding Chiaki is trans and never questioned it, but reading those comments did make me realize, there weren't a lot of examples when Chiaki was experiencing his dysphoria without it being tied to society's perception of what is and isn't allowed for men and women. That doesn't mean he isn't trans, as social norms are one of the biggest source of dysphoria for many trans people, but I can see how to someone that might seem like that was the only case of it and wonder, if had Chiaki not experience it, would he actually still feel the way he feels. It's perfectly normal to question character's consistency and believability.

Thank you for this. I came here looking for discussions about this plot point only to find that most of it was just summarily shut down.

I cried this was so amazing ;_;

You all seem to ignore that some trans women (for example) are totally satisfied with the male gender, only dissatisfied with the male body.

I'm personally fine with most things manly and never had a problem with being a guy - I even liked my penis, even tho I never understood why the fuck it was there. I still transitionned years ago and never regretted it.

Some of us trans individuals are solely trans because of the body. Nothing gender related. I never wear makeup, heels, or girly things, I wear jeans and pants and sometimes cut my hair short and I talk with a deep manly voice and I'm into girls... Etc. Still trans.

^^^^

To put it real simple, there is only one single requirement to being trans: Not being cis. That's literally all it is. If you think "Oh i've been assigned xy at birth? That doesn't seem right" that's it. As trans as can be. Everything else around it, dysphoria, transitioning, etc. is all "optional" and not a requirement whatsoever. There is no wrong or right way to be trans.

last edited at Aug 25, 2021 10:42PM

Good news for "To Strip The Flesh"

It looks as though Viz has picked this up for official translation and sales, which makes this easier to recommend to friends who prefer a hard copy on their hands. So, cheers for that, and here's to hoping this story reaches anyone who needs it.

Edit: Might as well include the link to VIZ's announcement https://twitter.com/VIZMedia/status/1446930957479600131

last edited at Oct 9, 2021 9:22PM

The art style gives a creepy atmosphere during certain scenes which only adds to the suspense/anxiety feeling.

last edited at Apr 5, 2024 12:33AM

Damn. That was really good. Had to come back and reread it again today bc I kept thinking about it.

wait why was Takatou wearing a suit though

Takatou fuckin' sold out. He nows works just twelve hours a week - exclusively on investor calls. Only agrees to film trips with his high-school homie anymore so he can feel "close to the common man".

No but tbh Takatou seems like a real one.

I thought it was cause he was getting married or something. I guess we'll never know

Good news for "To Strip The Flesh"

It looks as though Viz has picked this up for official translation and sales, which makes this easier to recommend to friends who prefer a hard copy on their hands. So, cheers for that, and here's to hoping this story reaches anyone who needs it.

Edit: Might as well include the link to VIZ's announcement https://twitter.com/VIZMedia/status/1446930957479600131

I keep coming here to read this marvelous one-shot, and thanks to your announcement I could find it has been already released.

Thank you very much.

Edit: In the Viz edition there is a continuation of this story :]

last edited at Jul 25, 2022 10:53AM