Nevri posted:

I understand being touchy on the subject and having to deal with people who try to attack or erase you all the time, but don't you think you guys are taking it a bit too far? Nobody from people who expressed their doubts about story said that trauma makes you trans or tried to excuse trans people existing. Those comments were actually very civil and only pointing out story relied heavily on showing Chiaki's dysphoria through social pressure and norms, rather than his own discomfort with his body. I can see where those commenters are coming from, as line between not fitting into stereotypes and not identifying with your assigned gender can be very thin. That's what puberty is for. Having conflicted feelings about one's own identity and the way other perceive you is a common experience when you're still in process of figuring out yourself. Some people go through phase when they think they want to be opposite gender, but over time they come to realize they're actually fine the way they are and might even love being their assigned gender.

My point is, those people clearly just weren't sold on the premise this story sold and had their own interpretation of it, which is completely valid. Just because story is about trans issues it doesn't mean it has to be a good story or even accurate for that matter. Especially when you're unfamiliar or not as knowledge about subject, some things might be easy to miss or not as clear as to other people. When I read it first time I just read it with clear understanding Chiaki is trans and never questioned it, but reading those comments did make me realize, there weren't a lot of examples when Chiaki was experiencing his dysphoria without it being tied to society's perception of what is and isn't allowed for men and women. That doesn't mean he isn't trans, as social norms are one of the biggest source of dysphoria for many trans people, but I can see how to someone that might seem like that was the only case of it and wonder, if had Chiaki not experience it, would he actually still feel the way he feels. It's perfectly normal to question character's consistency and believability.

Thank you for this. I came here looking for discussions about this plot point only to find that most of it was just summarily shut down.

Good gawd, this shite never ends...=_="
...
And no, that's not ambiguous. <.<

I'm here to deliver! :D

It's not that I found it massively ambiguous or anything. I was only confused for half a second as I continued reading the next boxes and then retroactively understood the correct meaning almost immediately. It's perfectly good English and it flows well, better than all the alternative suggestions.

But if you weren't pre-computing what's supposed to be happening and you just see this line "I haven't even been working for half a year", it has more than one possible meanings and you don't necessarily default to the right one. This did happen to me if only for a fraction of a second and I just wanna put it out here when several are outright saying there's absolutely no possible confusion.

Of course translators have to weigh between faithfulness, flow, possible unintended meaning etc. etc. and settling on the chosen phrasing is perfectly fine. Not here to diss on them or anything. Just discussing.

Sorry to add fuel to the fire but I was one of the people who also got confused by that phrasing. It's not inherently wrong nor bad English but it certainly can induce confusion. I think it has more to do with your expectation of the story (as in, whether you saw it coming and therefore understood it better) rather than fluency of the language.

Perhaps it could be replaced by something like "Even though I have yet to work for half a year" or even "Even though I've only worked here for less than half a year."

Both of those sound really awkward and unnatural to me though. The best alternative I can think of to clear up any apparent ambiguity would be "Even though I've worked here for less than half a year" and I'd still be more inclined to the original translation personally. Not that I know what the original line in moon is.

Has the line confused any native English speakers?

Or maybe just add "yet" at the end, like ""I haven't even been working here for half a year yet."

I don't know about wrong or unnatural, but both suggestions seem much more formal than something a teenage girl would say, even a fairly mature one.

Yea, agreed.

last edited at Aug 11, 2016 3:39PM

Sorry to add fuel to the fire but I was one of the people who also got confused by that phrasing. It's not inherently wrong nor bad English but it certainly can induce confusion. I think it has more to do with your expectation of the story (as in, whether you saw it coming and therefore understood it better) rather than fluency of the language.

Perhaps it could be replaced by something like "Even though I have yet to work for half a year" or even "Even though I've only worked here for less than half a year."

drpepperfan posted:

The only thing here that's actually true is the 4-koma tag.

Agreed.

Mm, how does a story in which a character spends most of the chapters upset that she can't go out with a boy she likes not deserve the Het tag? Even if she ends up with the girl in the end, 2 out of the 3 characters spend most chapters in love with members of the opposite sex. I don't see how it's not het at all.

The same argument applies to Bisexual and Love Triangle. Whether or not the story didn't go as you expected, how are the tags not "True"?

Because if they end up with a girl they obviously were gay from the start. That is how it works, right?

Well no, if we follow th first post, the yuri tag is wrong too

If you're going with a lawyer-esque analysis of "is this here? true/false" then yes you can add anything you find in the tags. On the other hand, you can see that several commenters here have clearly been misled by the tags that barely has any relevance to the story's substance.

Barely any relevance? She spends almost every chapter in love with the male. Only towards the end does she truly fall for the girl.

She loved a guy, therefore it's het. There're 3 people, therefore it's a love triangle.

I disagree. This is a story about the evolution of the love between two women. The dynamics that you'd expect from a het and love triangle story are nearly not there and in a very subdued manner. Perhaps different readers will take away from the story differently, however.

I will agree the tags are not literally wrong but I argue that the tag list does not give the impression that the story deserves.

drpepperfan posted:

The only thing here that's actually true is the 4-koma tag.

Agreed.

Mm, how does a story in which a character spends most of the chapters upset that she can't go out with a boy she likes not deserve the Het tag? Even if she ends up with the girl in the end, 2 out of the 3 characters spend most chapters in love with members of the opposite sex. I don't see how it's not het at all.

The same argument applies to Bisexual and Love Triangle. Whether or not the story didn't go as you expected, how are the tags not "True"?

Because if they end up with a girl they obviously were gay from the start. That is how it works, right?

Well no, if we follow th first post, the yuri tag is wrong too

If you're going with a lawyer-esque analysis of "is this here? true/false" then yes you can add anything you find in the tags. On the other hand, you can see that several commenters here have clearly been misled by the tags that barely has any relevance to the story's substance.

The only thing here that's actually true is the 4-koma tag.

Agreed.

If they bashed the buttons at random like that with the photocopier in my office, there's a pretty good chance it'll email a PDF copy to everyone on the address list.

I really hate myself for noticing, but Satsuki's hair changed from a ponytail to a bun and back again through p16-19. :(

Is it possible to put that same download button on the Recently Added page? I'm ok with going into each chapter to download, but this loads up the first page and probably also the next several pages in the background which I never look at, since I'm downloading it. If the button is on the Recently Added page it'd save your server some bandwidth.